New CDN ice dance team - Gilles & Poirier

[crankyintheAM]

New FD. Thank you PJ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_WYU...eature=g-all-u

I like them, I like the music, they look good. Their FD last season was, IMO, really fun, exciting and different, it was one of my favorite programs of the season all disciplines considered. This looks interesting, maybe a bit more conservative by comparison, but I'm sure it'll grow in my appreciation later on the season.

[Subway]

That was bad. I guess broken doll is Piper's default mode on ice. Swing that leg horizontal to her body to assist rotation, otherwise stay on two feet and boy, tons of squats and squatty backbands like they've cribbed from a Sean Sawyer show program. Slow motion skating and how much time can we kill keeping Piper off her edges? The spin looked like someone just turned off the overhead fan. Yes, it's early days but this looked worse than last year's first outing. Please with Paul saying this is their style. A lot of skaters have tried to pass off rough figure skating as "style" and it's always insulting.

ETA - Christopher Dean is a legend but he has to earn a living like anyone. I doubt he bestows his favor only on those he considers worthy.He talks up those who hire him or whom he'd like to be hired by.

[flowerpower]

Lane/Razgulajevs were responsible for G/P's choreo this year, not Chris Dean. (G/P visited Dean for a bit of tweaking afterward, but nonetheless it is L/R choreo.)

[Tak]

Lane/Razgulajevs were responsible for G/P's choreo this year, not Chris Dean. (G/P visited Dean for a bit of tweaking afterward, but nonetheless it is L/R choreo.)

I'm glad to hear it - after I watched that I couldnt believe it was Dean's. If I were them, I'd scrap it and get another one - the quicker the better. I didnt even like the music.

I did like the lifts though - I wonder if that and the opening was Dean's "tweaking".

[marbri]

Not too sure about this one but far too hard to judge from this distance. I don't "get" it at all from the top row of that arena and I don´t think that´s a good thing. It´s early days of course...

[aftershocks]

I really like G/P, and I loved their FD of last season. This season's FD choreo looks interesting, but I don't like the music at all.

[dancefan17]

Agree with marbri that it was shot so far away I had trouble really evaluating it. Does anyone know what the music is? Agreed that the opening pose seemed awkward, that they seemed a little slow (could have been the video), but unison, timing and connection were all improved. Would love to see more attack as the season goes on.

[Subway]

Lane/Razgulajevs were responsible for G/P's choreo this year, not Chris Dean. (G/P visited Dean for a bit of tweaking afterward, but nonetheless it is L/R choreo.)

Oh I know - I should have been clearer that I was commenting on speculation about Dean's respect for Paul due to their association. I think Paul is a terrific skater and of course is respected for it. Dean, though, is for-hire. In that realm he's not a skate god bestowing approval.

[flowerpower]

Dean, though, is for-hire. In that realm he's not a skate god bestowing approval.

Yes, ITA.

[aftershocks]

You mean you can't bestow approval, be a skate god, and make a living in an industry/ business you love???

[sap5]

I love the new FD. Love that they're moving in ways different from what we usually see, and that they're not afraid to try new things. Can't wait to see this with more polish! Thank goodness someone is finally bringing some voids!

[timmybopper]

Is this Paul and Piper? If so, they look amazing! http://cdaily.ca/parties-thomas-sabo-jewellery-launch/

[museksk8r]

Is this Paul and Piper? If so, they look amazing! http://cdaily.ca/parties-thomas-sabo-jewellery-launch/

Yes, that is them, and they are both such cuties!

[overedge]

I like them

That was bad.

Well, I guess that sums it up

[Emdee]

I was at the scarborough show. While they had interesting lifts and a voidy program I do still think the tricks were there to cover up her deficits and therefor the team deficits. PJ was a bit higher than me in the stands and the arena has that awful netting which really spoils the viewing as well.

Its clear she has improved but has a long way to go. She doesnt have the ease or flow of Vanessa or Alexandra. She reminds me a bit of Kaetlyn in her early years so there is hope there and they are still very young.

[Lilly55]

G/P have very interesting movements here, but I think I would have kept it in the practice rink a while longer before presenting it for critique. I'm sure the execution and choreography will evolve dramatically over the next several weeks. It's a shame for them to have to start out with even a little negative buzz, because it's in such an early stage of development.

[aftershocks]

That was bad. I guess broken doll is Piper's default mode on ice. Swing that leg horizontal to her body to assist rotation, otherwise stay on two feet and boy, tons of squats and squatty backbands like they've cribbed from a Sean Sawyer show program. Slow motion skating and how much time can we kill keeping Piper off her edges? The spin looked like someone just turned off the overhead fan. Yes, it's early days but this looked worse than last year's first outing. Please with Paul saying this is their style. A lot of skaters have tried to pass off rough figure skating as "style" and it's always insulting.

ETA - Christopher Dean is a legend but he has to earn a living like anyone. I doubt he bestows his favor only on those he considers worthy.He talks up those who hire him or whom he'd like to be hired by.

Not saying that your critiques are invalid, just interesting to me in that you are very specific about what you don't like about the Gilles/ Poirier pairing, and about what you seem to despise about Dean's method of promoting himself in order to gain clients and thereby make a living. Is it that you were aghast at G/P pairing from the beginning (simply because you feel that Gilles is not up to Paul's level), or that you loved Crone/Poirier so much (and Crone in particular) that anyone Paul chose you would dislike? In turn, does that color how you will ever after view anything that G/P do together on the ice? Or, do you think there may indeed be some potential in this pairing, but they're just not there yet and don't deserve to be as highly regarded as they apparently are by Canadian Fed?

As far as Dean, you seem to know a great deal more about the way he conducts his business than I do, so please bear with my queries. As a less knowledgeable observer, I'm wondering what exactly is wrong with promoting oneself as a figure skating choreographer to gain as much work as can be handled? Particularly when there is a family involved (and specifically one child has special needs)? Despite having separated from his wife, I'm pretty sure Dean still loves and provides for his family. I don't exactly understand the negativity seemingly implied by your comment, "He talks up those who hire him ..." What is wrong with that exactly? And in any case, how would you know whether Dean does or does not "bestow his favor only on those he considers worthy"? And, how would you know what or who he "considers worthy" in the first place? Or, in fact, how do you know what Dean's particular definition of "worthy" is, or whether "worthy/ not worthy" even occurs to him as a criteria or selection process? Dean is a legend and "skate god" working within the varied and allied realms of figure skating, athletics, television, etc., but I don't think he is independently wealthy. And even if he were, he'd probably still enjoy working and choreographing. If you have insider knowledge or are the recipient of gossip in this regard, then please dish.

G/P have very interesting movements here, but I think I would have kept it in the practice rink a while longer before presenting it for critique. I'm sure the execution and choreography will evolve dramatically over the next several weeks. It's a shame for them to have to start out with even a little negative buzz, because it's in such an early stage of development.

At some point, they have to debut the program outside the rink. There's no way in the early pre-season the program could be as polished as it surely will be later, so why not put it out there in order to receive feedback from others besides coach/ choreographers? Putting it out sooner provides more time to incorporate other ideas and to make adjustments. It's also possible as we've seen, that skaters end up trying something else completely different even once the season has started. I think that makes it even more reasonable to show what they're working on as soon as the entire team feels prepared to do so.

[Subway]

Not saying that your critiques are invalid, just interesting to me in that you are very specific about what you don't like about the Gilles/ Poirier pairing, and about what you seem to despise about Dean's method of promoting himself in order to gain clients and thereby make a living.

Re Gilles & Poirier - I try to be specific otherwise it's just insulting them. They're not skating well. What's the problem or what is "interesting" about being specific? OTOH, maybe there is a problem with misrepresenting and projecting one's own issues onto what someone else has said, but MMV.

As to Dean - despise is on you, not me. I think Dean is, at times, treated as the touchstone for creative genius on FSU and I disagree with it. He's a magnificent figure skater (those knees) and a gimmicky choreographer. When he choreographed for himself and Torvill, his theatrical/modern approach was new, because it had been more ballroom based. He hasn't done anything new since the 80's. Almost all the choreography he does is some type of derivative of his and Jayne's routines, which is why I question when he's called innovative. He's more repetitive than anyone out there. Dean is entitled to earn a living and please tell me where I've said he's not. However, if somebody says the very fact that Dean is working with someone means that person is a great skater because Dean is a genius, I'm going to disagree with both. He is, like every choreographer, including my favorite, Zoueva, working with those who hire him. He's a professional who needs to earn a living. He's not a skate god who only deigns to bestow his choreographic favor on those he thinks worthy of wearing his genius mantle. That is all. There's nothing suspect about me having this POV of Dean any more than thinking he's the last word in skating genius. It's not an insult, although I think he could do with refreshing his repertoire to more specifically (there's that strangely "interesting" word again) enhance the individual strengths of his teams, instead of making each team skate to his Dean style. One size doesn't fit all.

Is it that you were aghast at G/P pairing from the beginning (simply because you feel that Gilles is not up to Paul's level), or that you loved Crone/Poirier so much (and Crone in particular) that anyone Paul chose you would dislike? In turn, does that color how you will ever after view anything that G/P do together on the ice? Or, do you think there may indeed be some potential in this pairing, but they're just not there yet and don't deserve to be as highly regarded as they apparently are by Canadian Fed?

Well, you're acting out with this. This is your emotions about what I said and has nothing to do with what I said. Gilles is obviously not up to his level; that's not a feeling, that's what anyone's eyes can see. What's the problem with saying so. Is it a sport or not? As to Vanessa, she's better than Piper and C&P were better than Gilles/Poirier are now. Again, a sport. What "colors" what I think is their skating. It has gotten worse since last season. Combined with the choreography, it's bad.

I don't know what their potential may be because the coaching appears aimed at working around issues instead of working on them, as does the choreography. Pluses are both have long lines. Both appear to have harmonious, extroverted personalities. Both are athletic. Her skating, though, was painful in this video clip. The choreography only calls attention to it.

As far as Dean, you seem to know a great deal more about the way he conducts his business than I do, so please bear with my queries. As a less knowledgeable observer, I'm wondering what exactly is wrong with promoting oneself as a figure skating choreographer to gain as much work as can be handled? Particularly when there is a family involved (and specifically one child has special needs)? Despite having separated from his wife, I'm pretty sure Dean still loves and provides for his family. I don't exactly understand the negativity seemingly implied by your comment, "He talks up those who hire him ..." What is wrong with that exactly? And in any case, how would you know whether Dean does or does not "bestow his favor only on those he considers worthy"? And, how would you know what or who he "considers worthy" in the first place? Or, in fact, how do you know what Dean's particular definition of "worthy" is, or whether "worthy/ not worthy" even occurs to him as a criteria or selection process? Dean is a legend and "skate god" working within the varied and allied realms of figure skating, athletics, television, etc., but I don't think he is independently wealthy. And even if he were, he'd probably still enjoy working and choreographing. If you have insider knowledge or are the recipient of gossip in this regard, then please dish.

Seriously wtf with this. I said that he's not a skate god - he's a guy earning a living. How controversial, and what deep knowledge of Dean's business practices I'm pretending to possess! WTF is the matter with you?

The fact that he's doing choreography for a skating team is not a verdict on that skating team's superior quality. He's a choreographer for hire, like Carmelengo, like Zoueva, like David Wilson. That's how the choreography business works. What the hell the rest of the above might be about, that's for you to say, because it's your fantasy about what I'm saying. He's earning a living and works with people who hire him! OMG, I hope he doesn't sue me for slander!

ETA - as to Skate Canada, I think they suck, for reasons too lengthy to be - omg - specific!! about here. Yes, I believe they pushed for Gilles & Poirier at last season's Canadians, and Gilles/Poirer finished with a home-cooked score, no doubt about it, I'm sorry. They're not as good as VM at Worlds 2009 (better, by scores) not as good as C&P winning Canadians in 2011, and to say so is insulting. The score insulted the gold and silver medalists and their predecessors, because it wasn't earned.They didn't skate to the level of 100+.

[Pratfall]

Subway !!




BTW .. Mods,this thread is no longer a news thread , but has become a fan thread...doesn't it belong in the Trash Can with the other fan threads ?

[Rafter]

Interesting there's so much negativity about Gilles. I don't think she's that bad. She has some qualities that are much better than Crone, actually. Better posture, better toe point, better "look" (and let's face it, that's important in ice dance).

I'm actually pleasantly surprised with how good G&P look for such a short time together. It'll be interesting to see how this FD progesses over the season. At first glance I don't like it as much as last year's, but this was debuted at end of July or early August, so they've got many, many months to perfect it.

My guess is that this is the team Skate Canada is banking on post-2014 (if W&P retire). Paul & Islam are far too mistake/accident prone at this point for them to be "the next ones".