Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    138
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Why didnt Ito come back for 94 instead of 96 Worlds if she was going to return

    Although I am not sure how a 94 comeback would have gone for her, if Midori Ito wanted to come back why would she come back in 96 rather than 94. By 96 the field was much stronger, and she was much further removed from her last amateur event, and she was also 26 by then and would have been 28 by Nagano. She would have had much better chances in a 94 comeback than a 96 one. Did she even want to make the 96 comeback or did the Japanese federation force her back. Why wouldnt they instead have forced back Sato who was having her best ever skating in the pros around that point and would have been more likely to be competitive of the two.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,270
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    43338
    Good question. I am guessing here. Ito had suffered a lot of injuries in her career, and I suspect she had already decided to retire after the 92 Olympics. She was enjoying her pro experience and probably did not feel ready to go through the grind of eligible training/competitions. Why did she return in 96? IIRC it was the Japanese fed that was more interested in her comeback than Midori herself. She had some health concerns at that time. She had lost a lot of weight. Quite possibly she made a comeback to help her country. In 96 they did not have strong Japanese lady skaters, and they needed more berths for the 97 worlds and then the 98 Olympics which were in Nagano.

    All this is my guess.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,531
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6730
    Ito was asked to come back in 1995-96 by the Japanese Federation to secure World team spots because they did not think they had a skaters that could do that. She did not really want to come back. She was a nervous wreck by the time Worlds came around, and developed a bleeding ulcer, which caused her to be anemic during the competition.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 09-03-2013 at 09:52 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    138
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Did they force her to come back or just strongly persuade her and out of her own genorosity she agreed? I remember watching her at Worlds and she looked positively ill before she ever started her LP and she was skating after Chen's row of (deserved) 5.9s and perfect 6.0s which probably dampered her mood even more. I felt so sorry for her.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    138
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Did they ask Sato to come for 96 too? I wonder if they did her also but she declined.

    I wish Ito had come back in 94, especialy since Yamaguchi didnt. I am not sure she would have won but she would have been much more competitive than 96 probably, and she could have felt good about her comeback even if she didnt win and gone on to a long and happy pro career. After her sad comeback in 96 she was so discouraged she quit skating and didnt even return to pros. The pro skating World missed her greatly. She is truly a special and iconic figure.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    103
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    Did they ask Sato to come for 96 too? I wonder if they did her also but she declined.
    Not sure if the JSF asked Sato or not, but I imagine it would have something to do with their jump repertoire. Sato wouldn't have likely been able to compete with a two 3lutz program and possibly 3/3 combos (besides Bonaly that is). Ito, however, still had all the ammunition needed to compete at the top. In fact Ito of 96 could still compete with anyone today. Just shows what an amazing talent she was

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    28
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    In fact Ito of 96 could still compete with anyone today.
    Ito of 96 wasnt exactly amazing:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vve8CnXsP4

    I doubt she would even be top 15 today with that kind of performances. Maybe you are thinking of another year.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    103
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Obviously at 96 worlds she was very ill with a bleeding ulcer and anemia. Reports at the were that she was still unstoppable in practice leading up to the event. At japan nationals that year she could still land everything but just showed some rust.

    She still had the full repertoire of 6 triple jumps consistently leading up to 96.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    28
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Well I never saw her skate any other time after late 94 except the 96 Worlds so that is all I have to go by. Do you have any tapes of her skates at Japanese Nationals that year.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    103
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by briantoronto View Post
    Do you have any tapes of her skates at Japanese Nationals that year.
    96 Japan Nationals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT-dHwXPZc0
    Minus the 2 step outs, she skates a 6 triple long program with a 3axel. She looked like a force to be reckoned with to me.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Sato wouldn't be able to do do 2 3lutzs consistently, plus her 3flip was always wonky. The Sato of 95-96 though would have factored in at the 95 worlds, especially considering Chen missed one of her 3lutzs in the LP. After that I don't think Sato would be a factor on the amateur scene.

    I am sure Ito had all the jumps going into the 95-96 season, but it was kind of like deja-vu for her with all the pressure fom the JSF federation. Not to mention her body was alot older and had taken alot of pounding over the years. I am still sure Ito could have easily won in Lillehammer if she was healthy and had her 3A. She didn't even need to do one in the SP to be competitive. The level of difficulty had taken a dive since 92. With no Yamaguchi coming back, Chen had the most difficulty planned (behind Kerrigan) with a 3lutz/triple toe she took out.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    96 Japan Nationals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT-dHwXPZc0
    Minus the 2 step outs, she skates a 6 triple long program with a 3axel. She looked like a force to be reckoned with to me.
    It goes to show what a talent she was to be able to produce that at almost 27 years old.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    28
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Thanks. I wonder how she would have placed at the 96 Worlds with that. She still wouldnt have beaten Kwan or Chen IMO. Would she have been able to beat Slutskaya for the bronze? She should have since Irina took a huge fall on her side on her first jump, didnt have huge technical difficulty, and had childish artistry and programs, but the judges always loved Irina to bits and heavily overscored her there. She deserved something from 4th to 6th place at those Worlds but was still gifted the bronze, so probably would have over Ito too unless Ito was spot perfect and did a triple axel too.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The judges might have given Ito the silver over Chen at the 96 Worlds if she skated perfectly and landed a clean triple axel. Although the gold was a 6-3 split between Kwan and Chen, 5 or 6 of the judges who voted for Kwan put a huge space between Kwan and Chens scores, and even had Slutskaya as close or closer to Chen in scores as they had Chen to Kwan as ridiculous as that was. Chen was so underrated in her career by judges, and this was another case.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,068
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I believe the Federation wanted to have someone to qualify 2 or 3 spots for the ladies for Nagano Olympics. Ito's come back was supposed to last through 1998 (in which ideally she would skate in a Witt fashion) but obviously the unsuccessful outing at 1996 Worlds probably discouraged both her and the Federation to pursue this plan further.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Quadland
    Posts
    6,157
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1604
    I never thought of sato coming back for Nagano instead of Ito! but Japan knew of the circumstances of 94 worlds! Ito was also going to be major promotion! She lit the cauldron! They had big plans for her! Shed probably carry the flag, skate, maybe do athletes oath, do lots of stuff! But her health really crashed bad. But they still wanted her to do stuff like light the cauldron. After all that was over maybe they approached sato but was probably resigned to whatever they got as host!

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Her 96 Worlds finish shows maybe it made sense for her to not come back even for 94 though. She finished behind Bonaly at those Worlds for instance (5th to 7th) and Bonaly was already going way downhill at that point herself. Yet Bonaly in 94 Olympics didnt even medal (4th) and was a way better skater in 94 than 96. She even finished below Szewcenko at those 96 Worlds (6th to 7th) and Tanja was already ill and a weaker skater than 94 Olympics where she came only 6th as well. So it wouldnt be certain Ito could do well at the 94 Olympics. She would have to be way stronger form than the 96 Worlds to hope for even a good finish at the 94 Olympics, and maybe a medal.

    It made sense maybe she come back to help Japan with more spots though. Then again in 96 they had Yokoya who was easily capable of getting them 2 spots every year around then. She declined after 96 though.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Sato wouldn't be able to do do 2 3lutzs consistently, plus her 3flip was always wonky. The Sato of 95-96 though would have factored in at the 95 worlds, especially considering Chen missed one of her 3lutzs in the LP.
    Sato was very strong in pro competitions. Remember she often beat the likes of Yamaguchi and Ito at her pro peak, and also dominated and almost always beat people like Kerrigan and Baiul who she usually lost to as amateurs (part of that was those got weaker as pros too, I mean Baiul and Kerrigan getting much weaker as pros, not Yamaguchi and Ito). That shows she was still improving after 94 and probably would have had she remained amateur too. Then again pro competitions dont care about having all sets of triples and things like 2 triple lutzes or triple-triples are almost meaningless. So Sato could just dump the 3 flip from her programs altogether and still be fine, and if she stayed amateur she wouldnt be able to.

    I think she could have defended her World title in 95 based on her level in pro skating around then though. If she could beat Yamaguchi and Ito in pro events (where Ito was skating great, not struggling with nerves, health, durability, age, and endurance, like her amateur return), she could defeat a 5 triples/1 triple lutz Chen at Worlds. Chen only won Worlds that year since Bobek bombed anyway, she skated much better to lose in 96 than to win in 95. After 95 she probably would have only been a bronze contender unless she improved her jumping higher than ever before. Artistic wise I think she would keep improving, she improved alot as a pro in artistic.
    Last edited by KimGOAT; 09-08-2013 at 09:44 PM.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    163
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Her 96 Worlds finish shows maybe it made sense for her to not come back even for 94 though. She finished behind Bonaly at those Worlds for instance (5th to 7th) and Bonaly was already going way downhill at that point herself. Yet Bonaly in 94 Olympics didnt even medal (4th) and was a way better skater in 94 than 96. She even finished below Szewcenko at those 96 Worlds (6th to 7th) and Tanja was already ill and a weaker skater than 94 Olympics where she came only 6th as well. So it wouldnt be certain Ito could do well at the 94 Olympics. She would have to be way stronger form than the 96 Worlds to hope for even a good finish at the 94 Olympics, and maybe a medal.
    These just aren't logical conclusions, I'm afraid. 1996 was a far different landscape than 1994 and even so, you've admitted that the skaters you reference were in different places in their skating in 1996 than they were 2 years earlier.

    Szewzchenko had only just learnt the lutz by the 1994 Games, and was competing with the full set in 1996; she was also a much more complete skater and one with a reputation having won World bronze at just 16 in 1994. Illness aside (and has it ever been documented when she began feeling ill?), 1996 Worlds was one of Tanja's best ever skates.

    Ito herself was a much different skater in 1994 than 1996. I think a fairer comparison given their ages would be Maria Butyrskaya who, as a medal contender in 1998, was beating skaters that she was struggling to keep up with in 2000. 2 years is along time for a ladies skater in her mid-twenties. It's a fair assumption to believe 1994 Ito would've had more endurance and been stronger, allowing her to skate stronger long programs and also skate multiple competitions in a season with less chance of exhaustion.

    It would have only been 2 years (or less since she would've had to start training in 1993) since she trained competitively vs. 4, and she would've been skating under less pressure than in 1992 or 1996 had it been her own decision to reinstate as opposed to the JSF. Lastly, you're using her worst performance of the year, 1996 Worlds, and assuming she could not - or would not - have been able to skate it any better. However, her performance from Nationals that year would've had her much higher at Worlds - one of the deepest ever, BTW - and likely earned her a medal at the 1994 Games.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Sato was very strong in pro competitions. Remember she often beat the likes of Yamaguchi and Ito at her pro peak, and also dominated and almost always beat people like Kerrigan and Baiul who she usually lost to as amateurs (part of that was those got weaker as pros too, I mean Baiul and Kerrigan getting much weaker as pros, not Yamaguchi and Ito). That shows she was still improving after 94 and probably would have had she remained amateur too. Then again pro competitions dont care about having all sets of triples and things like 2 triple lutzes or triple-triples are almost meaningless. So Sato could just dump the 3 flip from her programs altogether and still be fine, and if she stayed amateur she wouldnt be able to.

    I think she could have defended her World title in 95 based on her level in pro skating around then though. If she could beat Yamaguchi and Ito in pro events (where Ito was skating great, not struggling with nerves, health, durability, age, and endurance, like her amateur return), she could defeat a 5 triples/1 triple lutz Chen at Worlds. Chen only won Worlds that year since Bobek bombed anyway, she skated much better to lose in 96 than to win in 95. After 95 she probably would have only been a bronze contender unless she improved her jumping higher than ever before. Artistic wise I think she would keep improving, she improved alot as a pro in artistic.
    I agree Sato was incredible in the pros. Her first world pro victory over Yamaguchi is still one of the biggest upsets seen. Sure beating Baiul and Kerrigan was also a huge deal since she lost to them more often than not in the amateurs, but Kristi is one of (if not the best) pro skaters. Sato not only kept up her difficulty, but also explored some very difficult chreographic masterpeices.
    That said I don't think she would be competitive after 95 worlds because I'm not convinced she would maintain consistency on doing 6-7 triple LPs, and also facing younger athlethic skaters like Kwan and Slutskaya. Even Chen couldn't just rely on her artistry and had to keep up her technical content during this time, and Chen was a much more consistent skater than Sato was in amateur competition.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •