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  1. #1
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    Dube and Wolfe?? Comments??

    So anyone see Jess and Seb at Liberty? Just wondering on what you thought?

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    Check out PJ Kwong's blog - she has information and video links.
    Can't skate but love to watch

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    This video link of their FS (thanks, Lara!) was originally posted in the Liberty thread in the Kiss and Cry forum and discussed there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1AwvIpLBYg

    Quote Originally Posted by victorskid View Post
    Check out PJ Kwong's blog - she has information and video links.
    Direct link to the blog entry:
    Jessica Dube and Sebastien Wolfe - A first look

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    Looks like John Zimmerman on the boards coaching them with Annie? Ideas?

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    A good start for them. Some glitches, but that's to be expected at this point. Nice to see Jessica's triple flip.

    Of course there's a lot of work ahead, but a lot of potential too. I'm really looking forward to watching them develop.

    In Annie's interview with PJ she mentions (in French) that in building a new partnership like this, it's important to pace yourself and move forward one step at a time, yet she feels the pressure to prepare them quickly so that they might possibly qualify for a spot at Skate Canada this year. I hope they take the long-term view and don't become discouraged if it takes a little longer for things to come together. They are both young and they have time to work on this partnership.

    Having D/R, M-T/M, L/S (and D/W) fight it out will be great for pairs skating in Canada, IMO. None of the teams will be able to take a place on the podium (or a trip to Worlds) for granted over the next few years. That should spur them all on.

    ETA: A Universal Sports article mentioned that they had been working with John Zimmerman on a triple twist and on strengthening their pairs elements in general.
    http://www.universalsports.com/news-...id=542612.html
    Last edited by flowerpower; 07-18-2011 at 04:04 AM.

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    In Annie's interview with PJ she mentions (in French) that in building a new partnership like this, it's important to pace yourself and move forward one step at a time, yet she feels the pressure to prepare them quickly so that they might possibly qualify for a spot at Skate Canada this year.
    I hope the pressure isn't coming from Skate Canada, and that Skate Canada takes a longer-term view. He needs experience! That was obvious from the Liberty recording. Sending them to Skate Canada before they are ready won't do them any favours. They may be ready - we'll know more after the Quebec Summer competition - but the pairs field at Skate Canada is strong. If they aren't ready they should say no and wait until next season.

    If Dubé/Wolfe aren't ready for the big time yet (in the opinion of their coach), I think a good alternative would be to send Arsenault/Coté, subject to monitoring. They wouldn't have the spotlight on them like Dubé/Wolfe, and it would be a good experience for them. If they have continued to improve in the last few months as they did last season, they might do reasonably well.

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    Pair elements look really weak at the moment (but they've only been skating together for a few months) and there is not much height and size difference between them. I wonder if they can work through that.

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    There were a few problems but overall they did look world class to me, and its July. I think they will be competitive with other teams at Skate Canada if they are sent (I'm pretty sure they will be at this rate). I enjoyed them quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Pair elements look really weak at the moment (but they've only been skating together for a few months) and there is not much height and size difference between them. I wonder if they can work through that.
    Maybe he's not 6'2" as he says, but their height difference to me looks plenty. Not everyone is going to look like Duhamel/Radford out there, nor do they need to look like that. Things like their lifts are of course weak, but he's so inexperienced and their time together is so limited that it seems normal. The triple twist may not come easily, but that hadn't exactly ever been an easy element for Jessica+Bryce either. We should also probably take into consideration that Jessica hasn't skated much pairs lately. Overall, I think they look fine, it was a solid debut, and they have plenty of time to make improvements before Skate Canada, if they wish to attend and are selected (which in all likelihood will happen). I don't mind the program either.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 07-18-2011 at 02:04 PM.

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    Interesting to me that they're working with Zimmerman and not David Pelletier. Her relationship with Pelletier must have gone sour.

    It's early days I know, but I'm not that impressed. Lifts are weak. I found Dube's eyes downcast throughout the entire program practically and they have zero connection. But we'll see. I might change my opinion by January. Somehow I doubt they'll have the TES to compete with MT&M and D&R.

    Nice to see Dube land a 3flip though - but he didn't (despite what PJ said in her article). I wonder how reliable his is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Interesting to me that they're working with Zimmerman and not David Pelletier. Her relationship with Pelletier must have gone sour.
    What relationship? That's an unnecessarily provocative statement.

    It's been a long time since D/D worked with Pelletier (they went to Doug Ladret instead last summer). So why would D/W go to Pelletier now, considering that his help on the 3 twist never worked for D/D?

    From the recent ice network article:http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    "We haven't worked on a triple twist yet; we really need more time," Dube said. "We changed the technique on the twist. It is not the same as in the past [with Davison]. We want to do a nice double before we try a triple."

    I'm glad they're going to Zimmerman for help; maybe they'll actually get the 3twist to work with different technique.

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    I meant working relationship. I disagree that he didn't help them with the 3twist. He helped them with it quite a bit but that's another story.

    D&D spent a lot of time working with S&P (and especially Pelletier) over the course of their career. When D&D split and they thanked the countless people who had helped them over the years, Pelletier/S&P were not on the list. A bit suspicious when this is a guy who worked with them a lot and I'm pretty sure was at the boards coaching them along with Annie at 2009 Canadians and I think even worlds.

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    ^
    OK, I hear you.

    I agree that D/D's 3twist improved with Pelletier's help, but it still had a long way to go. When they worked with Ladret last year, Bryce mentioned that it was good to get input from a pairs guy (Ladret) who wasn't so big. Of course Zimmerman is a big guy, but maybe he is adept at working with pairs of varying body types and making adjustments in the input he gives them. Hope so. At any rate, despite Pelletier's input D/D only got so far with the twist, so best to seek other help, IMO.

    Also, I remember hearing an interview that Pelletier did with Peter Carruthers back at Worlds in Los Angeles. He talked about his career with Jamie but also mentioned D/D, and basically said that their attempt to do Carmen was off-base, that they should stick to their strength - i.e. romantic programs. That's another reason I was glad to see D/D go elsewhere for help last year. And with D/W needing a fresh start, I'm glad they're seeking other input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoskate View Post
    I hope the pressure isn't coming from Skate Canada, and that Skate Canada takes a longer-term view. He needs experience! That was obvious from the Liberty recording. Sending them to Skate Canada before they are ready won't do them any favours. They may be ready - we'll know more after the Quebec Summer competition - but the pairs field at Skate Canada is strong. If they aren't ready they should say no and wait until next season.
    ITA, there is no need to rush. I suspect the push is coming from Annie and Jessica rather than Skate Canada. Prior to Liberty, Sebastien had competed in exactly 6 pair events, all in Canada, and all at the junior level. His pair skills are still developing and he would benefit greatly from a year of senior competition at the domestic level before beginning senior international competition. The last thing we want is for him to turn into a headcase, especially since he’s already partnered with a known headcase. One of them has to be stable. I would also like to see Jessica demonstrate consistency with her jumps and throws over a number of competitions before she’s sent back out on the world stage. Historically her jumps have been fine in the summer and early fall competitions, but tend to fall apart as the season progresses and the pressure increases.

    The fact that D&D even had 3twist at all is because of David Pelletier. It wasn’t their best element by a long shot, but it was solid by their final year together. Personally, I think the problem is simply that Jessica is afraid of it. A change of technique isn’t going to fix that. And I agree about the lack of a connection. She still looks quite uncomfortable with him. Possibly she doesn't fully trust him yet, despite what she says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    It's early days I know, but I'm not that impressed. Lifts are weak. I found Dube's eyes downcast throughout the entire program practically and they have zero connection. But we'll see. I might change my opinion by January. Somehow I doubt they'll have the TES to compete with MT&M and D&R.

    Nice to see Dube land a 3flip though - but he didn't (despite what PJ said in her article). I wonder how reliable his is?
    Well, I think almost the same. I didn't find lots of moments to enjoy in this program, but everything may change with the time.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    Prior to Liberty, Sebastien had competed in exactly 6 pair events, all in Canada, and all at the junior level.
    No, he has competed in more events than that. He competed in novice pairs with Justine Gosselin for a year, then spent two years as a junior with Tara Hancherow.

    Absolutely, he needs more experience, but I see no reason to be negative at this point. He has very strong skating skills, is a good singles skater, and since he wants to continue his pairs career I'm glad that he has this opportunity.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.

  17. #17
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    Her posture and air position in the first lift was and it looked like they had nice speed and good ice coverage.

    He looked like he was tiring towards the end, which isn't surprising in a new partnership, when he's learning to pace with her.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpower View Post
    Rome wasn't built in a day.
    No, but there was no internet, twitter, or utube back then either, so people couldn't criticize that it wasn't built in a day .

    I thought the lifts looked scary, ie I was afraid he was going to trip on his skates and drop her, but like everyone said, they're a new pair and it's very early in the season.

  19. #19

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    For me its too early to say what kind of long-term potential Dube & Wolfe have, especially with him being new to senior pairs.

    I'm going to Montreal next month and hope to see them skate at Quebec Summer Skate if my schedule works out so I'll have more an idea then what I really think.

  20. #20
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    I'm sorry but my reaction at Liberty was

    Jessica has the technique and she's certainly a quality skater. But there was no chemistry there and no magic in the program, it was snoozeworthy like most latter-day D/D stuff.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

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