07-17-2011, 03:19 PM
I know, and I never said Yags was competative under CoP.
Originally Posted by misskarne
It wasn't a comparison, it was me daydreaming.
But his steps were fast and awsome, and involved the music, not every turn and movement ever invented, so on that we agree, and that's why I'd rather watch him (or Sahsa Abt) all day long, level 1 or not.
When I read "serpentine steps" the first impression that dropped into my mind was Yagudins fab Nutrocker sp. awwwww....
07-17-2011, 04:22 PM
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I can't imagine any skater would appreciate being escorted off the ice! Joshua Farris maybe, but I can't think of anyone else in the situation he was in. Normally skaters will always stop if they've hurt themselves or are injured, and only carry on if they can. Plenty of skaters have had three falls but still had a decent skate and won medals. Especially if you're incuding things like tripping on crossovers or sitting down on a turn, which are nothing to do with injury but are just daft mistakes. There's been so many pretty good performances with two falls - imagine if the skater also tripped on a crossover near the end, bounced straight back up again, and had the music stopped because of it? Would you really want to see that?
Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
Not to mention the fact that disqualifying someone for this would have enormous ramifications on other things. Their country would miss out on a placement which could make the difference between getting one spot or three, you could be preventing them making a world team that they otherwise would have made, everyone else's placements are affected, etc. Plus everyone would play it safe or pop jumps to avoid falling at all costs.
It would also be massively unfair to basically not allow someone to finish their competition for what could be freak mistakes that don't even impact that much on the performance. Everyone wants to complete the competition, unless they're seriously too injured to, in which case they would withdraw.
07-17-2011, 10:23 PM
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So many good ideas here. In particular, I prefer the old-style footwork and would like to see more skaters doing the full set of jumps, which seemed to be more the norm under the old system. I also would like to see a rule change devaluing Biellmanns as a technical matter and banning the I-spin for everyone except Sasha Cohen.
07-18-2011, 02:18 AM
1) In FS, one extra virtuoso spin - a layback, scratch, crossfoot, sideleaning position - with emphasis on speed, centering, perfection in position. So many combo spins look like hard labor
2) I'd love to see more half revolution to 1 and a 1/2 rev. jumps as connecting moves or in step sequences...and not have them count as jumping passes. The split flip, lutz, inside axel, one leg axel - or low rev. jumps done in the skater's opposite direction, just to show they can do it.
07-18-2011, 07:14 AM
It's probably been said before, but I haven't read through the thread, so..
1.00 or even a 2.00 bonus to:
A) Ladies skater who successfully completes a 3S, 3T, 3Lo, 3F, 3Lz with 0.00 GOE or higher.
B) Mens skater who successfully completes a 3S, 3T, 3Lo, 3F, 3Lz, 3A with 0.00 GOE or higher.
Yes, edge calls would affect GOE. It would encourage skaters to learn proper technique and include a variety of jumps in programs.
1.00 or even a 2.00 bonus to:
A) Ladies skater who successfully completes any triple-triple jump combination with 0.00 GOE or higher.
B) Mens skater who successfully completes any quadruple-triple jump combination with 0.00 GOE or higher.
07-18-2011, 03:29 PM
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About the Boitano rule - is it really even necessary today? In decades past, there weren't many opportunities for amateur skaters to make money, while today there are tons of opportunities. There's really no reason for anyone to skate in an "unsanctioned" show to make money like in Boitano's day.
Originally Posted by Kelvster
Baiul never had a combo to begin with! LOL!
Originally Posted by essence_of_soy
But the old 6.0 program actually would have started with the 2A, and Scott Hamilton saying "Nice, easy, easy double axel, to get her feet under her..."
07-18-2011, 03:47 PM
07-18-2011, 04:07 PM
+1 bonus for all 6 types of jump takeoffs. -1 deduction for each missing takeoff less than 5.
+1 bonus for having all types of combos (toe-toe, toe-edge, edge-edge, edge-toe) - this is possible with just 3 combo jumps when one is a 3 jump combo.
first jump in combo should get 10% more, second or third jump (whichever has higher value) 20% more, second or third jump (whichever has lower value) 15% more. (the point is there, the % bonus can vary)
+3 bonus for ladies with all 6 types of jump takeoffs with 3 rotations and above and no edge call or underrotation call. +1 for 5.
+3 bonus for men with all 6 types of jump takeoffs with 3 rotations and above and no edge call or underrotation call, 2 of which must have 4 revolutions. +1 for 6 types of triples and 1 quad or 5 types of triples and 2 quads.
GOE should be awarded as a % to base value of the element. (it's much harder to get +1 on 3lutz than on 3sal, for example, but the +1 is worth the same)
-2 in PCS for each consecutive 3 jumps executed without a spin or step/spiral sequence in between.
a mandatory 4th level 1 spin, but with the same GOE value of a corresponding level 4 spin.
do away with compulsory layback requirement in the sp and replace with solo spin with change of foot like with the men. (and while we are at it, do away with Biellmann feature for layback and introduce a banck bend feature)
each combo spin with change of foot must have 3 changes of positions.
07-18-2011, 04:20 PM
Some of these rules are even more complicated than the ones we have now under CoP.
07-18-2011, 04:54 PM
Bring back the ladies SP spiral sequence!
It brought much needed balance and breathing room to the frenzy of the program, kind of like the bridge in a song. Also, they were gorgeous, and were a good indicator of a skater's line and control.
If they shortened the time in which you can complete a footwork sequence (forcing skaters to skate with speed through those now-sluggish footwork steps), they could gain time for the spirals.
07-18-2011, 06:06 PM
I think the sit spin with the butt in the air is mainly a male problem with the back sit spin. Since so many of them do it, it must not be easy to overcome. It's hard to believe no one has pointed it out!
Originally Posted by stevlin
I agree about the flailing arms as well.
07-18-2011, 06:47 PM
Anyone who skates to Carmen or Tosca should get an automatice 10-point deduction.
07-18-2011, 07:03 PM
I love your ideas. With combinations, my main interest is how to encourage interesting, original combos. I would try codifying extra points for a double-triple combo vs a triple-double.
Originally Posted by BigB08822
07-18-2011, 08:09 PM
- Rep Power
Or Nessun Dorma?
Originally Posted by Rex
07-19-2011, 01:27 AM
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I'd also like to see a requirement for positions in dance lifts to held for longer, or less changes per lift. They do all these changes of position, but it looks so frantic and there no time to enjoy eack individual position.
07-19-2011, 02:42 AM
Perhaps in one of the 3 lifts-straight line perhaps?
A rule like that would obviously not be appropriate in a rotational lift.
07-19-2011, 03:38 AM
Like others have said:
1. Get rid of the biellmann feature for a layback spin. Allow only one change of position, after the 8 revolutions in classic position have been met.
2. Bring back the spiral sequence in the Ladies SP. Get rid of the foot grabbing and change of edge features.
3. Bring back the 4th spin in the LP. As of now, it's entirely possible to see the same three spins in both programs. I want to see variety and spins that match the music.
4. In general, the step sequence is too long, has too much going on, and is not musical enough. Fix.
5. Bring back required forward flying sit spins and flying reverse change sit spins to the senior level for the SP (and flying camel and deathdrop too; one for each year of a quadrennial).
6. Reward classic sit spins. When Keegan Messing does them, the audience goes wild. This should be a clue...
Last edited by BmcC102; 07-19-2011 at 03:56 AM.
07-19-2011, 03:51 AM
There should be a .5 ded for every element performed without pointed feet.
07-19-2011, 04:23 AM
Get rid of axel requirement in the sp, the 3 required jumps should be: combo, steps into toe jump, and steps into edge jump
Mandatory negative GOEs when no or insufficient or non-immediate steps before solo triple in the sp
Steps that do not fit a SL, circ or serp pattern will be graded level 1 and mandatory negative GOEs.
Each ladies sp and lp must have at least 1 unassisted spiral, held for at least 3 seconds
Judges should be encouraged to use +2s and +3s in GOEs, vary PCS components, and mark on absolute basis (no need to leave room).
07-19-2011, 04:44 AM
- Rep Power
I have never understood how this is possible in thick, stiff boots.
Originally Posted by TheIronLady