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  1. #21

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    ^ Surya at 1989 World You can't get me to watch that video again, but I know what I think about it ... "If figure skating jumps are defined by the skating going in, then do those count?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of those *attempts* which aren't worth crediting in my mind, or the ISU's.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    3r = 3lo.
    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    A Rittberger, also known as a loop.
    Thank you! That's why I love this place-I'm always learning! I new what the 'r' jump was but referenced Rittberger! (the first skater to perform this jump I assume?)

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    ^ Surya at 1989 World You can't get me to watch that video again, but I know what I think about it ... "If figure skating jumps are defined by the skating going in, then do those count?"
    She was fun to watch in exhibition (I did see her once and she was for sure one of the crowd's darlings) a diamond in the rough if ever there was one. COP would have killed her chances imo of even getting past qualifying. Compulsory figures likely would have done the same to her had she been born earlier. She had such horrific edge quality it is a wonder she got as far as she did.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Both of those look about a half cheated on the landing.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of those *attempts* which aren't worth crediting in my mind, or the ISU's.
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Both of those look about a half cheated on the landing.
    The one at Worlds was better. But I agree that they are not perfect.
    But Kurt Browning's 4Toe, Miki Ando's 4Sal, Irina Slutskaya's 3Lz/3Loop were not perfect on the landing.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    The one at Worlds was better. But I agree that they are not perfect.
    But Kurt Browning's 4Toe, Miki Ando's 4Sal, Irina Slutskaya's 3Lz/3Loop were not perfect on the landing.
    Those other "firsts" were a lot better, but I see your point. Surya was never going to get the benefit of the doubt from the ISU...probably Didier's fault.

  8. #28
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    Part of Surya's problem on her 3lutz/3toe attempt was that she didn't have quality edges at the time, probably not until she turned pro. Transposing jumps from the gymnastics arena to the ice wasn't enough.

    She really struggled to squeak out and hold the landing after the second jump.

  9. #29
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    Ok, perhaps not the 3lutz-3toe (under-rotated 2nd jump), but perhaps Surya was the first to do 3toe-half loop-3salchow?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    Ok, perhaps not the 3lutz-3toe (under-rotated 2nd jump), but perhaps Surya was the first to do 3toe-half loop-3salchow?
    Or the 3sal/3toe or 3flip/3toe? She did some cheated 3flip/3toes in competition, but her 3sal/3toe was a much better combination...did anyone do these before Surya??

    Also, can anyone confirm that Tonya Harding landed a 3loop/3toe at 88 US Nationals? If she didn't, my guess would be Sokolova as the first to do this in 97/98.

  11. #31
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    Yes, Harding landed a 3loop/3toe combo in the LP in Denver (88 Nationals). Landing of the 3toe was a little rough.

    Video of this performance is very tough to find. One would have to get the Ledin video in order to see it since ABC did not show Tonya that year.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCrunch View Post
    Yes, Harding landed a 3loop/3toe combo in the LP in Denver (88 Nationals). Landing of the 3toe was a little rough.

    Video of this performance is very tough to find. One would have to get the Ledin video in order to see it since ABC did not show Tonya that year.
    Thanks for the info...the things I would do to see that video!!!

    Considering she landed the most difficult combo of any woman by that time, I'm surprised she didn't beat Kadavy in the free...but that's for the "worst judging" thread.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Both of those look about a half cheated on the landing.
    and the lutz looks like it comes from almost a flat edge none of the jumps rotated at all....

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Yes, she was. Here she is at age 14 at 1980 Worlds completing both a 2A-3t and a 2lutz-3t.
    They mention here that the US "replaced the third girl [with Elaine Zayak] so Elaine could get into world competition." Was the USFSA allowed to do this whenever it wanted back then? Maybe the USFSA should look at its old practices when it used to win medals.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    They mention here that the US "replaced the third girl [with Elaine Zayak] so Elaine could get into world competition." Was the USFSA allowed to do this whenever it wanted back then? Maybe the USFSA should look at its old practices when it used to win medals.
    It wasn't just the USFSA who replaced a skater - Sandy Lenz with Zayak for 1980 Worlds - but the CFSA replaced Heather Kemkaran with Tracey Wainman too. I think Zayak's call up for Worlds was decided at Nationals as I remember Dick Button mentions it during a Lake Placid broadcast where they showed Elaine in the audience. In an era of reputation and 'wait your turn' politics it really worked for Elaine as she was on the podium at Worlds the very next year.

  16. #36
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    It worked for Wainman and a lot of other newcomers as well.

    In Dortmund she placed one spot higher (14th) that Kemkaran did at the Olympics in Lake Placid, and in 1981, Tracy broke into the top ten which is something Heather never did.

    Worlds in 1980 also marked Witt's debut, too where she finished 10th to Debi Cotrill's 9th. In 1981, they were 5th and 4th respectively.

    Hard to believe also when Claudia Binder finished 5th in Dortmund, that Austria had 3 ladies in 1981!

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    I think Zayak's call up for Worlds was decided at Nationals as I remember Dick Button mentions it during a Lake Placid broadcast where they showed Elaine in the audience. In an era of reputation and 'wait your turn' politics it really worked for Elaine as she was on the podium at Worlds the very next year.
    Yes, I think the decision was made at Nationals, though I'm not sure how I learned that in those pre-Internet days. Maybe it was mentioned during the Nationals broadcast. Sandy Lenz was a very good skater, but Elaine had wowed a lot of folks with a triple-packed free skate, and I think a decision was made to spread the wealth, as it were: Lenz got the big prize, the Olympics, and Zayak got Worlds.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCrunch View Post
    Yes, Harding landed a 3loop/3toe combo in the LP in Denver (88 Nationals). Landing of the 3toe was a little rough.

    Video of this performance is very tough to find. One would have to get the Ledin video in order to see it since ABC did not show Tonya that year.
    Skating Magazine made no mention whatsoever of this in their recap of 1988 U.S. Nationals. IMHO, even though Harding didn't make the podium, this achievement should have been reported.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Skating Magazine made no mention whatsoever of this in their recap of 1988 U.S. Nationals. IMHO, even though Harding didn't make the podium, this achievement should have been reported.
    I agree completely. It was the most difficult combination that any woman had landed at that point. When Tara Lipinski became the first to land her 3r/3r it seemed like there were planes carrying banners with news. I wonder how much had to do with the USFSA's lack of support for Tonya and how much had to do with Tonya not having an agent and not knowing how to promote herself in the sport. Probably a combination of both.

    On another note: Does anyone know ken Surya first landed 3sal/3toe? I've been digging, and I can't find any other women in the early 90's doing this combo.

  20. #40
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    This might be totally academic, but if a skater can rotate in both directions, he/she can have a combo with the 2nd jump something other than a loop or toe loop.

    There is a video somewhere os Shizuka doing a triple-triple-triple.

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