Most poorly judged competitions

[Spartacus]

So, because some has been robbed in the past, it's not a problem to rob in the future ? ^^

Anyway, I don't think B&S's skate was poor and sloppy, and I don't think S&P won fair and square.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

[DarrellH]

I don't think previous competitions are relevent. Plushenko was the only one who did those jumps at the Olympics in 2010 in the same programs. And those judges there said it was worth silver.

Then Tim Goebel should be a gold medalist?

[Cheylana]

You're talking about fans, not judges.

I'm talking about people who disagree with the judges' PCS determinations. If figuring out PCS was so easy, then why do so many people whine and complain that the judges got it wrong?

ETA - For example, Patrick Chan. His PCS marks are very controversial, especially vis-a-vis other skaters like Takahiko Kozuka. Some insist they are right; others say they are too high. But if the judges are applying clear rules, then who is anyone to say they got it wrong?

[Cyn]

I think RumbleFish is implying that Skate Canada politiked HARD for Patrick Chan. Had they just let Chan do his stuff and win without the supposed inflated mark through politiks, the judges might give the Gold to V/M?

This is what I'm understanding is from reading RumbleFish's posts, not what I think did happen.

I think you're dead on the money as far as RumbleFish's thought process (not that he/she/it has much of a mind to process anything other than their own blinding biases), but you get my point.

[Triple Butz]

I'm talking about people who disagree with the judges' PCS determinations. If figuring out PCS was so easy, then why do so many people whine and complain that the judges got it wrong?

ETA - For example, Patrick Chan. His PCS marks are very controversial, especially vis-a-vis other skaters like Takahiko Kozuka. Some insist they are right; others say they are too high. But if the judges are applying clear rules, then who is anyone to say they got it wrong?

Judges don't always "apply clear rules" hence the reason this thread exists.

[Cheylana]

Judges don't always "apply clear rules" hence the reason this thread exists.

We are going in circles now, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[museksk8r]

Didn't you post this already?

Ugh, the forum wouldn't allow me to simply edit/add on to my post, so I ended up having to quote my earlier post with my additions.

[Proustable]

1. I've heard politicking as an excuse to virtually every victory. I heard people cry politicking when V/M won the OGM (assuming it was a trade for Lysacek). So tend to shrug my shoulders a little bit when I hear that as a justification, Rumble Fish. But hey, I'm a V/M fanboy so thoroughly that I'm fine with people thinking they were robbed! Also a Canadian, so two medalists? Fine with me. Though truthfully, I thought that the Shibs were better overall than W/P.

2. I don't think either pair won gold in SLC "fair and square." It could have gone either way, fairly. It went one way, unfairly.

[shady82]

The PCS mark, as well as the former presentation mark, both had specific criteria. That can't be argued with.

The issue is that both of these marks are given with reputation in mind. Too often I see skaters being given PCS scores that are similar for all five categories. This is obviously not reflective of the skater's actual achievement in program components. Some skaters may have strong skating skills but little interpretive skill. While reputation does not completely determine scores, it does play a role.

For example, I remember the relative PCS scores at the 2006 US Nationals Ladies' SP. The PCS scores for the top 5, from highest to lowest, were Cohen, Czisny, Meissner, Hughes, then finally Liang. The scores here had more to do with the skaters' favor with the federation and/or other groups, and less with their actual presentation. How in the world did Liang get lower PCS for that performance than Meissner got?

[shady82]

Sale singled her double axel. This program was more sophisticated than Love Story with a lot more interesting in-between moves. Not that it counted like it would have in early COP years but this program also had a second death spiral and harder lifts.

B&S crashed the 3 twist, Anton had a small step-out on their sequence, and their throw loop was anything but steady. They also received a lot of criticism during the year for the middle of their Chaplin program for the huge pause/rest period.
I loved this program but had to agree that their step sequence really didn't come off as a step sequence.

It really could have gone either way and the momentum was with S&P for the year who had won other events (GPF) with poorer skates.

For 2001 Worlds, I personally thought B/S should have won overall even if S/P beat them in the freeskate. Sale's fall in the SP wasn't penalized enough - I thought they should have finished below 3rd after the short. Either way, Tristan & Isolde was a great program, and their FP was skated very well.

[icellist]

rewatched SP and LP for ladies 2008 worlds

My thoughts:
Gold - Yukari Nakano
Silver - Mao Asada
Bronze - Joannie Rochette

I would have given Carolina Kostner negative GOE for her shaky landings and Yuna was propped by the judges. (Maybe just me because i hated Yuna's costumes that year i was so distracted by it XD)

But seriously, how to Yukari not make it to the podium that year...

usually for ice dance, IMO, the judges have a set podium in mind and rearrange it slightly depending on performance (or not)

[Lookingood]

Yuna didnt get propped up by Judges in 2008 world,IMO more like Overscored for Kostner and underscored for Nakano.

[Frau Muller]

1976 US Nationals, Senior Ladies. As much as I love Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne absolutely deserved gold above Hamill in that particular competition.

[Marco]

rewatched SP and LP for ladies 2008 worlds

My thoughts:
Gold - Yukari Nakano
Silver - Mao Asada
Bronze - Joannie Rochette

I would have given Carolina Kostner negative GOE for her shaky landings and Yuna was propped by the judges. (Maybe just me because i hated Yuna's costumes that year i was so distracted by it XD)

But seriously, how to Yukari not make it to the podium that year...

usually for ice dance, IMO, the judges have a set podium in mind and rearrange it slightly depending on performance (or not)

I think I would have Yuna and Nakano gold and silver for 2008 Worlds, depending on how generous I want to be on some of Nakano's jumps. Asada's mistake in the free skate was very, very distracting and I would have her bronze at best.

[olympic]

1976 US Nationals, Senior Ladies. As much as I love Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne absolutely deserved gold above Hamill in that particular competition.

But, I think Linda was well back in the figures ,which precluded her from moving ahead of Dorothy under the scoring system at that time

[Amy03]

I think I would have Yuna and Nakano gold and silver for 2008 Worlds, depending on how generous I want to be on some of Nakano's jumps. Asada's mistake in the free skate was very, very distracting and I would have her bronze at best.

that would be soo ridicoules mao had a spectacular sp and a gourges fs even with the mistake i the begining, carolina on the other hand had a terrible program and her jumps and landing were horrible she shouldn't even have been i the top 10 and certainly NOT on the podium, what the judges saw in her program was and is still a mystery to me, yukari had beautiful programs her ending up in 4th place was a big surprise and very unfair, yuna had good programs therefor i think she deserved the bronze

2008 worlds should have been:
1. Mao Asada (which she did get)
2. Yukari Nakano
3. Yuna Kim (which she also did get)

(carolina kostner was soooo overscored that woman is a real mystery and for someone who was given a silver her programs were a real pain and nerveracking to see i actually wouldn't even have her in the top ten if i should be honest)

poor yukari she was soo robbed that silver medal should have been hers

[Garden Kitty]

The worst judged events are any events in which my favorites didn't win.

[Susan M]

The PCS mark, as well as the former presentation mark, both had specific criteria. That can't be argued with.

The PCS mark may have criteria, but last I looked they were not very specific at all, at least not in the kind of quantifiable way that would produce consistent results. OTOH, the guidance for GOE are quite detailed, yet even there we see the same element get marks ranging from 0 to +3 or even -1 to +2 sometimes.

The rules for PCS use a lot of very subjective terms, so it is not surprising that the PCS marks are so easily used to nudge skaters up or down based on national bias, personal style preference, deal du jour, or just who left the best liquor in their hotel room.

Can someone please direct me to the ISU directive with the most current guidance on marking PCS?

The worst judged events are any events in which my favorites didn't win.

I suppose this was meant to be clever, but it is not really true. If one is a fan of skating (rather than of skaters) one will have seen lots of bad judging even in events with no particular favorite. I'm betting many fans can even site an instance of bad judging that worked to the benefit of their favorite.

[escaflowne9282]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 2002 Grand Prix Ladies

[paskatefan]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 2002 Grand Prix Ladies

Is this the one that Irina won over Michelle? Or did that happen in December 2001? With all due respect to Irina, I felt she was overmarked & the title should have gone to Michelle.

2001 Worlds - Men - Todd deserved nothing less than the silver medal here.

2009 Worlds - Meryl & Charlie should have been on the podium. They were wonderful that year at US Nationals and were even better at that year's Worlds.

2010 Olympics - Tanith & Ben should have won the bronze medal