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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Takahashi has a very noticeable flutz. Evan got ! for his triple flip. Not sure about Plush.
    I never said anything about Evan Re: edge calls. I don't disagree with Takahashi's calls, but in fairness, Plushenko should have been subjected to the same scrutiny. His flip takes off from an obvious outside edge, and was not called as such until the japan open last year.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenya View Post
    The Latin ODs were in 2000 - not 2001, when Fusar-Poli & Margaglio won Worlds. I agree with you that Fusar-Poli & Margaglio had the best Latin OD, but that year they were 2nd overall to Anissina & Peizerat at Worlds. I don't think Anissina & Peizerat were at their best in 2001, although I do think they were the better team in general, and I felt that Fusar-Poli & Margaglio had a stronger set of programs overall. I mean, who doesn't love chest bumps in a FD?
    You are right. It seems such a long time ago. Now I remember it was like Quickstep and Foxtrot. Because of Lobacheva's hair.

    But I also remember thinking that F-P&M were stronger that year than A&P. I really didn't think much of that Beethoven FD at all but it was the one time that I actually liked F-P&M's FD.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  3. #63
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    Ladies -

    1980 Olympics. Poetzsch [along with Baiul] are the most undeserving ladies OGMs in recent Olympic history. Poetzsch should've been buried further in the SP with a 2-2 and shaky jumps, plus Fratianne's marks should've been a little higher in the SP. Enough to give Fratianne the gold.

    1994 Olympics. I won't rehash but a 5 triple Kerrigan w/ a far superior constructed program should've stayed ahead of a 3 triple Baiul w/ a poorly constructed program.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    1) I cant believe you made me rewatch that dreadful program.

    2) This doesn't make any sense? I'm guessing you meant the previous rules before the 2010/2011 season changes in one of your descriptions?? In any case, I'm only going by the rules that were used to judge that competition, where a jump need only be cheated by a quarter turn or more to have a downgrade by obe rotation in base value, accompanied by negative GOE in most cases. Even if you ignore the fact that each "axel" takes off BACKWARDS, there is still a turn on the landing of at least 1/4, and IMO a little more. I would have either called them as salchows (a tad extreme) or 3axel> which, under those rules would mean a reduction to a poor 2a under that system.
    Oh I forgot the rules changes weren't implemented until after the Games.

    At that time the exact wording for a dowgrade was "more than 1/4 of a turn." In the FS clip, it's close, and it's really just a judgment call. It's not definite either way. And as people mentioned before, I think the technical panel was probably wary of making such a subjective judgment call for performances that would probably win medals.

  5. #65

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    2008 WCh ladies.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    2002 Europeans Men: Abt should've won!
    2002 Olympics Pairs and Ladies: B/S and Slutskaya should've won.
    2004 Worlds Men: OK, Worlds were in Germany but I still think Stéphane Lambiel was better than Stefan Lindemann that night.
    2005 Europeans Ladies: Pöykiö should've won. Slutskaya was extremely gifted.
    2011 Worlds Ice Dance: Shibs in 3rd?!
    Word. Especially 2005 ladies EM, and not from a patriotic wiew. I am a Slute fan.

  7. #67
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    2011 Men's US Nationals and Bradley's gold medal where BOTH of his quads were ratified.

    2010 Ladies' Olympic SP results with Ando's UR 3flip being ratified along with Flatt's atrocious Lutz attempt. Nagasu, and even Kostner with fully rotated jumps, albeit a hand down on the Lutz, should have been ahead of both of them in the SP, IMO.

    2010 Men's Olympic SP results with Lysacek beating Takahashi when Dai I believe should have been ahead of him by a few points. I would have had Evan behind both Dai and Evgeny by a few points in the short. I also would have had Lysacek in 4th behind Oda as well. 86 points would have been a much more reasonable score for Evan instead of the 90 he received. Reputation judging rears its ugly head again.

    2010 Men's Skate Canada SP & LP: Don't even get me started!

    There are many more cases, but these are more recent and I'm too lazy to think of more right now.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    2011 Men's US Nationals and Bradley's gold medal where BOTH of his quads were ratified.

    2010 Ladies' Olympic SP results with Ando's UR 3flip being ratified along with Flatt's atrocious Lutz attempt. Nagasu, and even Kostner with fully rotated jumps, albeit a hand down on the Lutz, should have been ahead of both of them in the SP, IMO.

    2010 Men's Olympic SP results with Lysacek beating Takahashi when Dai I believe should have been ahead of him by a few points. I would have had Evan behind both Dai and Evgeny by a few points in the short. I also would have had Lysacek in 4th behind Oda as well. 86 points would have been a much more reasonable score for Evan instead of the 90 he received. Reputation judging rears its ugly head again.

    2010 Men's Skate Canada SP & LP: Don't even get me started!

    There are many more cases, but these are more recent and I'm too lazy to think of more right now.
    Didn't you post this already?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Didn't you post this already?
    PML

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Oh I forgot the rules changes weren't implemented until after the Games.

    At that time the exact wording for a dowgrade was "more than 1/4 of a turn." In the FS clip, it's close, and it's really just a judgment call. It's not definite either way. And as people mentioned before, I think the technical panel was probably wary of making such a subjective judgment call for performances that would probably win medals.
    And that's fair? This thread is about bad judging, and my entire point is that certain skaters got ">" marks and "e" marks when others got overlooked. Add this to the PCS scores and it was a poorly judged competition.

  11. #71
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    Were the equally UR'ed? Do you feel neither (or both) earned the benefit of the doubt in that circumstance?

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    And that's fair? This thread is about bad judging, and my entire point is that certain skaters got ">" marks and "e" marks when others got overlooked. Add this to the PCS scores and it was a poorly judged competition.
    If you get into the PCS scores, then just about every competition is going to be considered a "poorly judged competition." Because people will always piss and moan if some skater they don't like got higher PCS scores than their favorites.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  13. #73
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    I'm more curious - would anyone argue that there is a well judged competition in which you disagreed with the major results?

  14. #74

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    Definitely 2008 Men's senior free skate, I thought Johnny skated cleaner than Evan who struggled on his landings.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Definitely 2008 Men's senior free skate, I thought Johnny skated cleaner than Evan who struggled on his landings.
    Yeah, that one was a head-scratcher.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    And that's fair? This thread is about bad judging, and my entire point is that certain skaters got ">" marks and "e" marks when others got overlooked. Add this to the PCS scores and it was a poorly judged competition.
    I don't think it's "fair" or "unfair." Like I said, the call could have gone either way, and this time it went in favor of E.L. That doesn't mean it's the "right" or "wrong" call, just the call that the technical panel thought was fair at the time..

    I'd be interested to know which competitions within the last 3-4 years were judged completely fairly.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    If you get into the PCS scores, then just about every competition is going to be considered a "poorly judged competition." Because people will always piss and moan if some skater they don't like got higher PCS scores than their favorites.
    Thats a generalization. PCS is actually not supposed to be as subjective is as people think...it's actually mapped out fairly clearly. Not everyone thinks their favorite should win all the time no matter what. In this instance, my favorites in the competition were Lambiel and Abbott, neither of whom deserved to be on the podium as I see it, and Abbott should not have been close. I base my opinions on the performances that were actually given and apply them to the competition rules and guidelines.

  18. #78
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    I don't think it's "fair" or "unfair." Like I said, the call could have gone either way, and this time it went in favor of E.L. That doesn't mean it's the "right" or "wrong" call, just the call that the technical panel thought was fair at the time..

    I'd be interested to know which competitions within the last 3-4 years were judged completely fairly.
    "Completely fairly" is not possible in any judged event. I will say that most competitions are judged well. For example, this year's worlds. While there may have been a few things I disagreed with, the event as a whole was judged pretty well.

  19. #79

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    As many have said before in other threads: the men's short program at 2005 US Nats. Matt Savoie's was the fourth-place program. Argh.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I'm more curious - would anyone argue that there is a well judged competition in which you disagreed with the major results?
    Yes. 1998 Olys Ladies, IMO. While I agree with the results of the '96 Worlds ladies, I think that it would also be equally well judged if Chen Lu had been declared the winner.

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