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  1. #61
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    China losing that 3rd spot at Worlds has got to be a wake up call for the Fed about the disconnect between the 3 great pairs and the up and comers. I am sure they are doing all they can to maximise S&H's competitive experience, accomplishments, ISU points / ranking, judges impression, prize money, training opportunities and so forth to allow them to be the next great hope for China, or at least for the time being, a team good enough to support either P&T or Z&Z should one of them get injured or retire from now til Sochi.

    If S&H can physically cope, I think this is a good strategy. China doesn't have the time to let them grow slowly and to be frank, they are not very good skaters at all. Yet they need to shoot to the podium right away if they want to contend for a medal at Sochi and there are only 2 more Worlds before then. The only way to fast track this team is to let them accumulate medals and titles.

    If Z&Z fully recover, I totally believe the 2 teams going to Worlds this season will be Z&Z and S&H. S&H will probably also go to every single 4CCs from now til Sochi. P&T can rest until the Sochi season.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    China doesn't have the time to let them grow slowly and to be frank, they are not very good skaters at all.
    They are not great skaters yet, of course, not compared to the top senior pairs that skate with polish and solid technique. But for such a young pair, they are very good. What other pair of similar age/experience has been doing as well or better in recent memory?

  3. #63
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    Sui/Han have some glaring weaknesses but also some extremely strong points. I would say they are not well-rounded skaters (and with Chinese coaching they might never become them).

    As for Dan Zhang, sorry but you don't grow any more at the age of 25!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but don't humans generally stop to grow at 21?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    As for Dan Zhang, sorry but you don't grow any more at the age of 25!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but don't humans generally stop to grow at 21?
    Well, I finished growing in height at 14, or so I thought. Then I grew an 1.25 inches between 28 and 30. Obviously Dan Zhang is a bit unusual, but... I guess sometimes weird things just happen!

  5. #65

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    I remember reading that US gymnast Kathy Johnson grew about 2 inches after she quit the sport at 24. I think this was at least partially attributed to the fact that she had an ED during her career which effectively stunted/delayed her growth.

    A combination of not eating enough (not saying Dan Zhang had/has an ED but she definitely is insanely skinny) and working out so much could have had the same effect on Zhang and then when she had a bit of a break due to them not competing, she could have grown.

  6. #66
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    It's not just gymnasts with an eating disorder. I think it's the change from the intense training to light training or no training.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    If S&H can physically cope, I think this is a good strategy. China doesn't have the time to let them grow slowly and to be frank, they are not very good skaters at all. Yet they need to shoot to the podium right away if they want to contend for a medal at Sochi and there are only 2 more Worlds before then. The only way to fast track this team is to let them accumulate medals and titles.
    It is unreasonable to expect them to medal at Sochi, they are still essentially juniors. They want to retain the distinction they earned last season as a promising pair and keep improving.

    Although they have a lot of work to do, they have the 'wow' factor, which isn't something that can be taught. The skating skills will get better with time and one thing about the Chinese pairs is that they are willing to work very, very hard.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Sui/Han have some glaring weaknesses but also some extremely strong points. I would say they are not well-rounded skaters (and with Chinese coaching they might never become them).
    IMO this post does a huge disservice to the Chinese pairs.

    China has produced the current pair Olympic champions and silver medalists, the 2006 silver medalists, and the 2002 and 2006 Olympic bronze medalists. Add to that the number of world titles, world medals, and GP accomplishments earned by just three Chinese pair teams. Pretty impressive, especially considering that China had no tradition in pairs whatsoever when Bin Yao started his program.

    To reach this level all three teams had to work on their weaknesses. Shen and Zhao and Pang and Tong became quite well-rounded pairs. Zhangs are still working on it, but there is room for them to grow.

    Most pair teams have strengths and weaknesses, few are the perfect package.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    It is unreasonable to expect them to medal at Sochi, they are still essentially juniors. They want to retain the distinction they earned last season as a promising pair and keep improving.

    Although they have a lot of work to do, they have the 'wow' factor, which isn't something that can be taught. The skating skills will get better with time and one thing about the Chinese pairs is that they are willing to work very, very hard.
    I don't expect them to medal at Sochi, but I bet the Chinese Fed does.

  10. #70
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    Back to the ladies, here is Zijun Li's training video of her LP.
    http://www.56.com/u12/v_NjI0MTI1MDU.html

    Apparently, she will include 3F3T and 2A3T in her new program.
    The music is from "Scenes of Summer" by Lee Holdridge, choreographed by David Wilson.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharonz View Post
    Back to the ladies, here is Zijun Li's training video of her LP.
    http://www.56.com/u12/v_NjI0MTI1MDU.html

    Apparently, she will include 3F3T and 2A3T in her new program.
    The music is from "Scenes of Summer" by Lee Holdridge, choreographed by David Wilson.
    She is looking very strong!

  12. #72
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    Zijun Li is improving very nicely. Hopefully she can survive the growth spurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    To reach this level all three teams had to work on their weaknesses. Shen and Zhao and Pang and Tong became quite well-rounded pairs.
    No they didn't.

    They have improved their weaknesses somewhat but they are/were still miles away from being what you could call well-rounded because of the basics and program construction being so weak.

    Having said that, yes there are very few teams that you could say that about. But when you're at the very top, the expectations are really high.

  13. #73
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    Li's energy was very consistent throughout that program -- very impressive. The 2A going into the 3T had wonderful coverage in the air and the combo had fine timing.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Li's energy was very consistent throughout that program -- very impressive. The 2A going into the 3T had wonderful coverage in the air and the combo had fine timing.
    Yeah, it wasn't perfect yet, but it did look rather easy for her to get through the program with all the challenging elements. I hope she can work on the landings and flow out of her jumps. Her bubbliness and energy used to remind me of a young Mao. Now her lanky frame and long limbs, and crispness on ice, start to remind me of Yu-na. After all, Yu-na is her idol.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing her with all the other up and coming young ladies at the first JGP. Julia Lipnitskaya will be very exciting to watch, too!

    I wonder if China is not planning on sending any girls to JGP except for Li. There are no Chinese ladies entries in JGP #2 and #3. Is there such a dearth of talent or funds?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Zijun Li is improving very nicely. Hopefully she can survive the growth spurt.



    No they didn't.

    They have improved their weaknesses somewhat but they are/were still miles away from being what you could call well-rounded because of the basics and program construction being so weak.

    Having said that, yes there are very few teams that you could say that about. But when you're at the very top, the expectations are really high.
    I'd say you do have very high expectations! I feel sorry for you as I can't imaging how much you have suffered from watch subpar pairs like S/Z and P/T for so many years. As a Chinese fan I apologize for the pain they caused you.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfanfun View Post
    I'd say you do have very high expectations! I feel sorry for you as I can't imaging how much you have suffered from watch subpar pairs like S/Z and P/T for so many years. As a Chinese fan I apologize for the pain they caused you.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Yeah, it wasn't perfect yet, but it did look rather easy for her to get through the program with all the challenging elements. I hope she can work on the landings and flow out of her jumps. Her bubbliness and energy used to remind me of a young Mao. Now her lanky frame and long limbs, and crispness on ice, start to remind me of Yu-na. After all, Yu-na is her idol.
    I'm quite worried about her edge jumps. The triple loop looks not having good height. Hope she will not "lose" her loop jump after the puberty. After all, it's just a random training video, nothing can be told until the real competitions.


    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    I wonder if China is not planning on sending any girls to JGP except for Li. There are no Chinese ladies entries in JGP #2 and #3. Is there such a dearth of talent or funds?
    You probably will not see any Chinese skaters going for JGP #4 because Chinese National Championships will be held through 9/20~9/23. This year's NC is quite special, since it's also the preliminary competition for the Chinese National winter games which is held once 4 years. No skater is going to miss that.

    Talking about young ladies, there are 2 new girls(I think both are 1997 girls) are age-eligible for the junior ground this season, Ziquan Zhao and Ying Zhang. At this moment, Zhao looks better. She has all five kinds of triple jumps and 3-3 combo (I'm not sure which kind it is). Since she is listed as the subtitute for JGP #1, I assume she will be sent to two JGP competitons later.

  18. #78
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    So many talented girls have come and gone in the past 13 or so years but they never really reached their potential. China really needs to revisit their ladies programme. Whether or not they had the jumps, they always had poor carriage and posture, shallow edges, laboured skating, below-average spins, not much idea about presentation and absolutely no wow factor. I absolutely loath their forward crossovers and the way they all stalk their jumps. The 3 girls they sent to US didn't improve much (yet) in terms of skating, which was disappointing.

    I think everyone is just waiting for the next Lu Chen but I doubt that would happen unless there are better facilities, coaches and programme that can allow skaters to develop and improve instead of trying to mold them into just another Liu Yan.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    No they didn't.

    They have improved their weaknesses somewhat but they are/were still miles away from being what you could call well-rounded because of the basics and program construction being so weak.

    Having said that, yes there are very few teams that you could say that about. But when you're at the very top, the expectations are really high.
    I think Shen and Zhao have great basics. P/T and Z/Z's are okay as well. I'm sure this will invite many of the Chinese pairs are terrible because he hurls the girl, etc, etc., etc. I just don't fall into that camp at all.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 08-19-2011 at 04:06 AM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    So many talented girls have come and gone in the past 13 or so years but they never really reached their potential. China really needs to revisit their ladies programme. Whether or not they had the jumps, they always had poor carriage and posture, shallow edges, laboured skating, below-average spins, not much idea about presentation and absolutely no wow factor. I absolutely loath their forward crossovers and the way they all stalk their jumps. The 3 girls they sent to US didn't improve much (yet) in terms of skating, which was disappointing.

    I think everyone is just waiting for the next Lu Chen but I doubt that would happen unless there are better facilities, coaches and programme that can allow skaters to develop and improve instead of trying to mold them into just another Liu Yan.
    I seem to remember Li Changjiang mentioning in an interview that there're just simply not enough kids showing interest in figure skating in China. Translation=not drawing talent. Perhaps one day a second Chen Lu will appear but not for some time.

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