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  1. #41
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    julieann,maybe you Love Bin Yao,and don't want to see anything agaist him.But,in the artical,he is speaking as "the head of the china figure skating team",he is speaking as a head,not a personal coach.and he's totally forgot S/H,who at least be the 3rd pair in China last season,and after P/T skip the GPs,they should be the 2nd.

    agree it or not,S/H's coach is Luan,who don't have much power in the chinese federation.all the fans in china want S/H have a fair treatment,not to compare with Z/Z,but other teams like Z/W,DW...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Are you sure he was speaking as the head of the national team and not just the head coach of his skaters?
    Actually, it was. I didn't translate it quite accurately. It literally says at the beginning of the article, "According to the National Figure Skating Team Head Coach Bin Yao...". Luan is a coach under him, just as the other coaches for the team, even if Luan coaches physically at a Harbin center not in Beijing.

    That's not what I asked. I asked about the Zhangs.
    Well, excuse me for expressing an opinion about something that you didn't ask for.

    I think they can deal with stress far better than S/H can, they are 3 time Olympians (and Olympic Silver Medalists) and 4 time world Medalists.
    That's a subjective statement. S/H did very well with the pressure of competing on the senior level in their first season last year, and should grow in maturity this year. Obviously Z/Z have been good about that too, or they wouldn't have achieved what they did. But the fact remains that they have yet to go head-to-head in international competitions, and nobody knows for now how Z/Z will handle competitive pressure after having a bad season followed by being off the ice altogether.

    The biggest threat for Z/Z in the GP is from S/S and possible B/L at Skate America and K/S in China and S/S, B/L, K/S and V/T in the GPF.
    I thought it would be obvious I meant Z/Z's biggest threat among Chinese pairs on the GP's.

    The judges didn't drop them, they dropped themselves, there is a big difference. Better choreography may make all the difference in the world for them.
    The judges may have dropped them because they dropped themselves, or because of bad choreography, or maybe a combination of factors. In any case, it is up to Z/Z to impress the judges again, whether through better programs or expression or whatever.

    The judges noticed them more last season because they were more prominent in the absence of better teams like Zhang and Zhang...
    Sure, the same might be said about the rise of Z/Z in the first place, or a number of other teams.

    The judges didn't "love" them anymore than they would have than the other teams that were competing, they just would have scored them on the junior level instead of the senior level.
    Well, that's also rather subjective, isn't it? And impossible to check. We can see how S/H do this season against all the other veteran teams. I wish S/H would have the chance of doing 2 GP's without the exhaustion and time demands of JGP's -- even if JGP's finish before the GP's, they could've used that time to train on their technique and skating skills and refining details of the programs instead.

    I think everyone is waiting to see if she'll grow.
    One might also wonder if Dan Zhang has grown taller still/fuller-figured, or if Hao Zhang will totally regain competitive fitness after a year off.

    But anyway, I don't want to set it up to be S/H against Z/Z. I root for both teams. I'm just upset that the Chinese federation so much disfavors S/H and they might not be given as much opportunity and nurturing as they deserve.

  3. #43
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    To be exact, according to Yao Bin's official website:
    http://www.sports.cn/starclub/yaob/b...23/399219.html
    He is not just the head coach of the pairs figure skating division of the National Team, but the Head Coach of the entire Team. Administratively, all the other dance coaches and singles coaches are under him too, including Mingzhu li, former coach of Caroline Zhang and Chen Lu, current coach of Zijun Li.

    If you think about it, it is a total conflict of interest for one of the national team coaches to be the administrative head of the entire team. There should be a separation of responsibilities. Someone not affiliated with any particular athlete or coaching team ought to be on top, making objective decisions about whom to send to which competitions. In which other federation does this happen? How would people feel in the U.S. if say... Tom Zakrajsek had major political power within the USFSA and had a big say over whom to invite to SA or send to ISU championships?? (Frank Carroll will spit blood, probably, for one thing )

    It's not only other pairs coaches and their students that worry about fair treatment, but indeed other skating disciplines, since the federation prioritizes funding and resources for the Pairs discipline. How many other Chinese skaters or teams, besides Yao Bin's pairs, and maybe Sui/Han after last season, get to have foreign choreographers or custom-made costumes?? Almost none. Besides Mingzhu Li's 3 top girls (Zijun Li, Bingwa Geng, Kexin Zhang) who got their programs last season from Karen Kwan over 3 days (because they were able to get a "bulk discount" from Karen Kwan, who is a personal friend of Li and was traveling in Asia anyway to accompany Michelle to a show in Korea), I cannot think of any who are competing right now. S/H have a new FS from Zoueva this season, but are having to keep their SP. I don't think the top men skaters, Nan Song or Han Yan, got any perks like that, nor the top ice dance teams.

    I recall Mingzhu Li saying in an interview once that the women's team doesn't get enough training time because so much of the team ice time is assigned to Pairs, that she's having to make private deals with the Pairs coaching team so that her girls can get a little more time on the ice each day.

    I'm not saying this is all Bin Yao's fault or anything. But Chinese Skating needs to have an independent administrative body with no ties to any particular athlete or coach. Then not only will there be more fairness in the distribution of funds, assignments, ice time, and so on, but also a better system for holding coaches and athletes accountable for personal integrity, like truthful reporting of age.
    Last edited by feraina; 08-16-2011 at 04:14 AM.

  4. #44
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    Thank you feraina for the translation and sharing your insights.

  5. #45

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    Thanks feraina for the translation - I agree with your opinions. I think it's definitely a conflict of interest.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    I don't think the top men skaters, Nan Song or Han Yan, got any perks like that, nor the top ice dance teams.
    one correction. Top ice dance teams DO have their choreography oversea. Both team HZ and YW got their programs set in the States last season, and will have new programs there,too.

    The only unfavorite discipline is MEN single team, even they have the most promising future star - Han Yan. He hasn't got any chance go abroad, or involved in any international shows.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    If you think about it, it is a total conflict of interest for one of the national team coaches to be the administrative head of the entire team. There should be a separation of responsibilities. Someone not affiliated with any particular athlete or coaching team ought to be on top, making objective decisions about whom to send to which competitions.

    I'm not saying this is all Bin Yao's fault or anything. But Chinese Skating needs to have an independent administrative body with no ties to any particular athlete or coach. Then not only will there be more fairness in the distribution of funds, assignments, ice time, and so on, but also a better system for holding coaches and athletes accountable for personal integrity, like truthful reporting of age.
    Feraina, you say there is conflict between Bin Yao's dual roles and indicate that his bias for his own skaters does not serve the interests of the team in that he is holding S/H back. As you've read the interview, you have more insight than many of us. That Bin Yao has favourites is nothing new - it's always been said that he favors Z/Z over P/T. But I'm a bit surprised that he wouldn't be promoting S/H. They are by far the most promising of the young Chinese pairs and I distinctly remember both he and Luan being named as their coaches at a competition last season. I think he was at the boards with them as well?

    I have know idea what happened there, but it made sense that he would get involved with S/H to maintain strength in the Chinese pairs field. Are any of his pairs anywhere near close to S/H's level? Or is he worried that they will surpass Z/Z?

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by luCN View Post
    julieann,maybe you Love Bin Yao,and don't want to see anything agaist him.
    No, I don't "love" him...but I don't have a blind hatred for him either. I just don't see how S/H have been keep down by him; if anything they have been given many more opportunities than other junior teams, and rightly so.

    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Actually, it was. I didn't translate it quite accurately. It literally says at the beginning of the article, "According to the National Figure Skating Team Head Coach Bin Yao...". Luan is a coach under him, just as the other coaches for the team, even if Luan coaches physically at a Harbin center not in Beijing.
    Actually, that may be the problem, I wish the reporter had asked specifically about S/H and if he had blown them off then it would have been a little more suspicious but if their names were never mentioned, is he obligated to mention every skater every time he is interviewed? I know when the head of the Russian Federation is interviewed he doesn't mentioned every skater in Russia, not even half of them.

    I wish S/H would have the chance of doing 2 GP's without the exhaustion and time demands of JGP's -- even if JGP's finish before the GP's, they could've used that time to train on their technique and skating skills and refining details of the programs instead.
    Doing 7 or 8 competitions in a season is not taxing on skaters, it's pretty normal. It's what they did last year and it's what most senior skaters do.

    One might also wonder if Dan Zhang has grown taller still/fuller-figured, or if Hao Zhang will totally regain competitive fitness after a year off.
    Dan Zhang is 25, she has been done growing for a while. They have been skating the whole time to stay on shape, they just couldn't do throws and split twists.

    But anyway, I don't want to set it up to be S/H against Z/Z. I root for both teams. I'm just upset that the Chinese federation so much disfavors S/H and they might not be given as much opportunity and nurturing as they deserve.
    There is nothing wrong with liking both, they are both very different teams and great teams to like, it's healthy competition that will make of them both stronger. But I fail to see how you feel S/H are somehow being kept down; they have more opportunities that most juniors and seniors for that matter. If they don't happen to make the Senior GPF they can go to the JRGPF. Not to mention all the shows they have done this summer to get experience and exposure.

    If she doesn't grow, they will be great.

  9. #49
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    Sui / Han have been added to Cup of China

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=2775

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    No, I don't "love" him...but I don't have a blind hatred for him either. I just don't see how S/H have been keep down by him; if anything they have been given many more opportunities than other junior teams, and rightly so.
    For the skaters' sake, I hope you are right! I'll give you this at least: at Chinese national championships, judges have not been favoring Yao Bin's teams over the others. Luan's teams won gold and silver last year over Yao Bin's older teams (Z/W, D/W) that he's been coaching and promoting for a while. But this is the first year that Luan's teams (S/H, Y/J) will be in direct competition with Yao Bin's teams for a spot on the Worlds team. So we'll see if domestic judging continues to be fair.

    I wish the reporter had asked specifically about S/H and if he had blown them off then it would have been a little more suspicious but if their names were never mentioned, is he obligated to mention every skater every time he is interviewed?
    Well, he was asked about S/H in the past. He was always very "conservative" in his replies, saying they are still young, much remains to be seen, etc. He has been slightly more positive about Zijun Li when asked directly interviews, although also not effusive -- I don't think it's in his personality to be effusive.

    Dan Zhang is 25, she has been done growing for a while. They have been skating the whole time to stay on shape, they just couldn't do throws and split twists.
    Actually, Dan is one of the skaters implicated in the age controversy:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Dan

    Even if she is really 25 that's no guarantee that she won't fill out more. Look how Sasha at 26 has filled out over the past year.

    But anyway, politics aside, I'm actually excited to see Z/Z back on ice this season. They were pushing the technical standards in pairs skating -- doing SBS 2A-3T and trying quad throws not so long ago. If they can add more expression, connection, and maturity to their skating, they could be a really awesome team. There is definitely a lot of potential there.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandra_persch View Post
    Sui / Han have been added to Cup of China

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    They are by far the most promising of the young Chinese pairs and I distinctly remember both he and Luan being named as their coaches at a competition last season. I think he was at the boards with them as well?
    I'm afraid that's just not the case. S/H have always trained with Luan in Harbin. They actually only teamed up in 2007, and never had pairs experience before that. So what they have managed to achieve with Luan in four short years is truly phenomenal.

    Some people thought that after their first successful year on the JGP, S/H might be transferred over to Beijing to be coached by Yao. Not that they wouldn't get good coaching from Yao, but I'd feel bad about Luan. Instead, the Chinese federation gave Luan a little more funding and resources, as well as an assistant coach. She has 7 or 8 young pairs or something, and the top four junior pairs in the country. So she obviously has some skill/talent in developing young pairs. I'm glad that the federation has been smart enough to see that. But again, this is the first year she and Yao have directly competing teams, so the politics may get uglier still. Let's see...

    To me, not picking S/H for CoC to begin with, and requesting they be given only 1 GP and sending them off to JGP's again, seemed like a sign that things are indeed moving not in S/H's favor. But I really hope I'm wrong. And I'm really thrilled to see that they got CoC after all.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Well, he was asked about S/H in the past. He was always very "conservative" in his replies, saying they are still young, much remains to be seen, etc. He has been slightly more positive about Zijun Li when asked directly interviews, although also not effusive -- I don't think it's in his personality to be effusive.
    Maybe he is being conservative in his interviews to see if they are even a pair in a couple of years. If she even grows a few inches she will out grow him, he is already rather short for a pairs man at 5'7" and I'm not sure he will grow taller. Most men don't after the age of 19.

    Actually, Dan is one of the skaters implicated in the age controversy:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Dan

    Even if she is really 25 that's no guarantee that she won't fill out more. Look how Sasha at 26 has filled out over the past year.
    Even if she is 23, she won't grow any taller, and getting fatter is something that can happen to any skater. At any rate it hasn't happened to her, I seen the video. Both of them look at though they are the same size as of May of 2010.

    I'm actually excited to see Z/Z back on ice this season. They were pushing the technical standards in pairs skating -- doing SBS 2A-3T and trying quad throws not so long ago. If they can add more expression, connection, and maturity to their skating, they could be a really awesome team. There is definitely a lot of potential there.
    I agree, after all this is a sport and I love seeing teams pushing themselves. Doing throw quads and 2A+3T, it is very exciting; I hope they can land them, but at least they are one of the few teams trying.

    To me, not picking S/H for CoC to begin with, and requesting they be given only 1 GP and sending them off to JGP's again, seemed like a sign that things are indeed moving not in S/H's favor. But I really hope I'm wrong. And I'm really thrilled to see that they got CoC after all.
    There is no reason considering their age, that they shouldn't still be in juniors. Many teams did both juniors and seniors in the same year and no one had a problem with it. Until they age out they should take as much advantage as they can. Get as many points, money, medals and experience as they can. No one should rob them of that.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Even if she is 23, she won't grow any taller, and getting fatter is something that can happen to any skater. At any rate it hasn't happened to her, I seen the video. Both of them look at though they are the same size as of May of 2010.
    I don't want to beat this horse to death, but Hao Zhang just said in an interview published yesterday that Dan Zhang grew a lot in height last season, to 1.68 m, to become the tallest female pairs skater in the world, and that by now she has grown to be 1.695 m, "almost as tall as myself."

    Obviously he's exaggerating a little, since he's 1.83 m. But Dan's height is definitely a "growing" issue.

    http://sports.cn.yahoo.com/ypen/20110815/529998.html

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    Let me translate a little more for Z/Z's fans. Among things he said:
    -- last season they had two programs choreographed by Lori Nichols, and although they were not used in competition, they have decided to change the FS. The SP is the same music ("Vampire"? I don't know what piece they are referring to) as last season, but the elements have been changed around a lot to cope with new rule changes.
    -- The new FS is "Death Dance" (?), and he says it's a very unusual program, and it has been a smooth process getting the choreography developed
    -- Because of all the Artistry on Ice's performances, they have yet to run through the program once with elements. Now they are focused on getting everything in place, including hard elements like lifts and throws
    -- After not competing for a year, he feels like they have to start from scratch, and cannot predict competitive results. Plus Dan grew in height, so pairs moves are not as easy as they used to be. Also, Hao has accumulated a number of big and small health issues, including shoulders and cervical vertebra, especially the latter, which is now prone to dislocation and has to be treated every day.
    -- He said pressure is self-created. They plan to approach the new season with a relaxed attitude, and will try to showcase their best at every competition.

  16. #56
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    After a JGP run, Sui/Han will have two GP's in a row, on different continents. I hope their routing from Toronto to Shanghai is humane.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    I don't want to beat this horse to death, but Hao Zhang just said in an interview published yesterday that Dan Zhang grew a lot in height last season, to 1.68 m, to become the tallest female pairs skater in the world, and that by now she has grown to be 1.695 m, "almost as tall as myself."

    Obviously he's exaggerating a little, since he's 1.83 m. But Dan's height is definitely a "growing" issue.

    http://sports.cn.yahoo.com/ypen/20110815/529998.html
    I have a feeling he is exaggerating a lot, if she is still growing a the ripe old age of 25... a few things are happening; she is MUCH younger than they are claiming, she is a freak of nature or they are going to have a ton of trouble skating together with only a few inches between them. I hope not, it didn't look like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    After a JGP run, Sui/Han will have two GP's in a row, on different continents. I hope their routing from Toronto to Shanghai is humane.
    Many skaters have done continent hopping for years; I/M did Canada to China last year, it's nothing new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    L
    -- The new FS is "Death Dance" (?), and he says it's a very unusual program, and it has been a smooth process getting the choreography developed
    Danse Macabre, maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
    Danse Macabre, maybe?
    Oh, right, maybe!

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Many skaters have done continent hopping for years; I/M did Canada to China last year, it's nothing new.
    Most don't do it after JGP, at which they skate a different version of their FS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
    Danse Macabre, maybe?
    Or Totentanz.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFN-pQ8Wkw
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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