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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    They don't need the money, and yet they (and many other bands) constantly do this to make even more money than they need. Who knows why they are motivated to do it.

    One of my favorite stories of rich bastard bands is the Rolling Stones vs. The Verve over "Bittersweet Symphony:"


    I think Jagger and Richards are 100% asswipes for that one. They certainly didn't need the $$$, everyone knows they didn't write the lyrics, and yet they get the credit and the cash.
    This reminds me of another plagiarism case involving rock music. Jake Holmes sued Jimmy Page over "Dazed and Confused" one of Led Zeppelin's earliest hits. Holmes claims that he wrote the song and that neither Page nor Led Zep ever gave him credit or royalties for it. From what I've read, he has a good case. "Dazed and Confused" certainly predates Led Zeppelin. In fact, The Yardbirds performed it as early as 1967 when Page was their lead guitarist. Holmes claimed that Page heard him perform it when he opened for the Yard Birds during one of their American tours.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I disagree. I think the Stones have done well specifically because they (well, Mick) are good businessmen, and I think they have a right to their own material. They went through the period in the 1960s when many artists and songwriters unwittingly gave away rights to their own material, and would know many talented people who were not able to profit from their own work - I think it's smart that they remain very protective of theirs now.
    But, if Jagger and Richards didn't write the lyrics, how is it being protective of "theirs" to claim exclusive songwriting credit and all the royalties? That's sound greedy and dishonest to me. Maybe greedy and dishonest is what makes "good businessmen," but I think it stinks.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I disagree. I think the Stones have done well specifically because they (well, Mick) are good businessmen, and I think they have a right to their own material. They went through the period in the 1960s when many artists and songwriters unwittingly gave away rights to their own material, and would know many talented people who were not able to profit from their own work - I think it's smart that they remain very protective of theirs now.
    But they didn't WRITE THE LYRICS.
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  4. #84
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    Dumbest copyright verdict ever was against George Harrison for the tiny similarities between his song, "My Sweet Lord" and The Chiffons' "He's So Fine".

  5. #85
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    No need to YELL! Besides, as I understand it, it's about the music, not the lyrics, and according to one source, Richard Ashcroft remains credited as a co-writer of the song.

    I just read a few more articles on the subject, and it seems we might be missing a few points. First, the lawsuit against Verve was not launched by the Stones, but by their former manager, who owns copyright on all their songs written before 1970. It was through that lawsuit that Mick and Keith's names were added to the credits - one website says along with Richard Ashcroft - but that benefits the former manager, not the Stones. Apparently, that guy's is the one enjoying all the royalties.

    The Wiki article manleywoman quoted also goes on to say that several companies have used Bittersweet Symphony in commercials, without permission of Verve. If that's the case, it means they must retain some rights to it, no?

    They also continue to perform it, paying royalties to the former manager's company, but by doing so, as their most famous song, surely they are making money off it in ticket sales etc?

    As I understand it, Verve also knowingly sampled a song and recorded it without seeking permission, and many seem to wonder why they simply didn't redo the song without the sample and move on.

    It's hard to know exactly what to think without all the legalities in front of us, and I certainly don't think the Stones are saints by any means, but I don't think they are the evil party here. It's the former manager who went after them, and who benefits the most by the whole thing, and from what I can tell, the Verve did little to prevent or remedy the situation.

  6. #86
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    Here's an interesting article on Allen Klein, the guy who sued The Verve, who died two years ago. The story of Bittersweet Symphony is retold briefly at the end, this time claiming Richard Ashcroft never made a dime on the song, but that he also chose not to alter it so that he could. Again, sounds like the Stones had absolutely nothing to do with it, and were in fact greater victims of Klein's - along with the Beatles - than the Verve ever were.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Dumbest copyright verdict ever was against George Harrison for the tiny similarities between his song, "My Sweet Lord" and The Chiffons' "He's So Fine".
    Not sure I agree. They are REALLY similar. IIRC, in fact George Harrison was successfully sued by them, then turned around and bought the rights to the song so he would never have to deal with it in the future. Don't have time now to go verify, but i seem to recall that was how it all shook out.

    And Jenny is right that in the 50s and 60s a lot of musicians got screwed out of royalties.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    IIRC, in fact George Harrison was successfully sued by them, then turned around and bought the rights to the song so he would never have to deal with it in the future. Don't have time now to go verify, but i seem to recall that was how it all shook out.
    After 20 years of litigation, that was pretty much what happened. I disagree that the songs were really similar, though. I think the similarities are only obvious if one is deliberately listening for them after learning of the allegation.

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    Here's an informative FAQ from the Harry Fox agency about mechanical rights licenses:

    Mechanical Rights
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    Great. Another album where Bolton sounds like he's constipated. Or passing a stone. Or being strangled.
    Oooo! Scotty Hamilton put to music!!
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  11. #91
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    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  12. #92

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    The problem with Michael Bolton is that people will buy that crap and he will end up thinking he has done music a great service.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Finally. The original was such a mess, one must admit. But Mr. B. has fixed it up so that "Fields Of Gold" is now listenable.

    AOL is streaming Bolton's new album, "Gems - The Duets Collection", listen to Michael duet with Eva here:

    Michael Bolton - Gems The Duets Collection

    Mikey also covers "Pride (In the Name Of Love)", which U2 could never really get a handle on. Plus he covers "The Prayer" and "Hallelulah", two songs that no one has done a very good job on until this time.

    Mark my word, expect to see Mr. Bolton up on stage next February taking home the Grammy for best album of the year for this treasure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    Eric Carmen only had one hit song "All By Myself."
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post


    *snip*

    Plus he was the lead singer for the Raspberries:
    This whole bit had me majorly as I was mistaking "Eric Carmen" for "Eric CarTman" from South Park .

    Now it makes sense.
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  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    This whole bit had me majorly as I was mistaking "Eric Carmen" for "Eric CarTman" from South Park .
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  16. #96
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    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuven View Post
    Oooo! Scotty Hamilton put to music!!
    Or a Paul Wylie GMB.....

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    I'm sure he's enjoying the royalties.
    Do you think Bolton will actually sell anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    One of my favorite stories of rich bastard bands is the Rolling Stones vs. The Verve over "Bittersweet Symphony:"

    I think Jagger and Richards are 100% asswipes for that one. They certainly didn't need the $$$, everyone knows they didn't write the lyrics, and yet they get the credit and the cash.
    That story KILLS me every time. "Bittersweet Symphony" is a great, great song, and pretty damn bittersweet now.

    The Stones wrote "The Last Time", then The Andrew Oldham Orchestra covered it with the same lyrics and original instrumentation. Then The Verve covered the TAOO version's original instrumentation and wrote original lyrics. So, exactly how were the Rolling Stones owners? Really, TAOO should be the ones who are pissed because the instrumentation is very similar from their version to The Verve's. "Bittersweet Symphony" sounds nothing like "The Last Time".

    This is the most despicable part to me:

    "We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they (the Stones) saw how well the record was doing," says The Verve band member Simon Jones. "They rung up and said, 'We want 100 percent or take it out of the shops, you don't have much choice.'"

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    And yet somehow I've never heard of any of these.
    What???? "Hungry Eyes" is from Dirty Dancing!!!

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Plus he was the lead singer for the Raspberries:

    Go All The Way

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    Overnight Sensation (Hit Record)
    Thank you!
    Don't know what he's doing now, but Carmen was a successful composer. I love "Overnight Sensation (Hit Record)".

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