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  1. #461
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    ISU Communication 1685
    The ISU posted the number of entries (total and direct) for 2011-12 ISU Championships today along with the minimum technical scores required for ISU Championships:

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/co...s-item,00.html

    Skaters/couples participating in the above-mentioned Championships (except for World Junior Figure Skating Championships) must have reached in an ISU recognized International Competition (as per Article 38, paragraph 7 and Rule 107, paragraphs 1 to 9) during the ongoing season (2011/12) or immediately preceding season (2009/10) [<- this must be a typo, should be 2010-11] the applicable minimum Technical Scores (both for SP/SD/OD and FS/FD) as follows:

    Men SP 20.00 points FS 35.00 points

    Ladies SP 15.00 points FS 25.00 points

    Pairs SP 17.00 points FS 30.00 points

    Ice Dance OD/SD17.00 points FD 27.00 points

    The minimum Technical Scores can be reached in either the same or in two different International Competitions.
    No mention of any GP minimums here...
    Last edited by HisWeirness; 07-25-2011 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #462
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    So much for 2/3 of the (TES) highest score from last season. They will need the quali rounds again, based on these minimum scores.

    Seeing "2 pairs" for China at Worlds is still a bit of a shock.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Seeing "2 pairs" for China at Worlds is still a bit of a shock.
    I'm confused, wouldn't China have 2 places anyway because P/T got 3rd? Or am I mixing up the rules?

  4. #464
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    China earned two places because P/T finished in 3rd and Zhang/Wang were 13th (3+13=16, which is <= 28).

    I'm so used to seeing three pairs for China, and CHN was unlucky to have the Zhangs out for the season and Sui/Han ineligible. It's going to be quite a competition for the two spots this year.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  5. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    China earned two places because P/T finished in 3rd and Zhang/Wang were 13th (3+13=16, which is <= 28).

    I'm so used to seeing three pairs for China, and CHN was unlucky to have the Zhangs out for the season and Sui/Han ineligible. It's going to be quite a competition for the two spots this year.
    Sorry I was confused, I read it like you were suprised they got 2 intead of 1; not 2 instead of 3...sorry

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    So much for 2/3 of the (TES) highest score from last season. They will need the quali rounds again, based on these minimum scores.
    That was meant to be for GP purposes only though. And we still heard nothing about the GP minimum scores. I am hoping that's because they've scrapped the idea.

  7. #467

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    From the ISU today:
    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=2726

    2.3 Minimum Score for Grand Prix events

    Each entrant to the Grand Prix six (6) events must meet the minimum score to be included in the entry or the alternate list.
    For the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating season 2011/12, the minimum scores are:
    • Men 168,60
    • Ladies 117,48
    • Pairs 130,71
    • Ice Dance 111,15

    Skaters/couples who have scored at least the above mentioned limit in an ISU Championships, ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and Final (Senior or Junior) between July 1st, 2010 and May 31st, 2011 are eligible for selection into the Grand Prix events 2011/12 or in the alternate list.

    The minimum score is the 2/3 of the highest points scored for Short Program/Short Dance and Free Skating/Free Dance, skated at the World Figure Skating Championships 2011 in Moscow.

    “Skaters/couples, placed in the top 75 Season’s best (season 2010/11) are placed on the alternate list. However those who need to score the minimum score as listed above can do so in the following International Competitions only:
    • Nebelhorn-Trophy 2011,
    • Ondrej Nepela Trophy 2011,
    • Finlandia Trophy 2011,
    • Cup of Nice 2011,
    • Ice Challenge in Graz 2011
    • NRW Ice Dance Trophy 2011

  8. #468
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    I can't believe they maintained the 2/3...

    ISU is consistently following the path, making me less and less interested in skating.

  9. #469
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    I can't believe they think the G/P minimums are higher than the standards for major championships, but that is much better than eliminating so many skaters from championships. (In Moscow, for example, not all of the men who qualified for the FS made the minimum in that competition.) Do they really make/think they can make that much money from TV contracts? Mitigating the impact is the expansion of senior B's, where there are, at least for competitors training in Europe and Russia, less costly ways to get international judges' feedback, and those competitions include more high-level skaters who need to qualify minimums.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #470

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    The only discipline where it really has an impact is in Pairs, where the cut off based on last seasons SB list is number 33, so Kemp/King and everyone below misses out. For Men and Ice Dance the top 60 all qualify - Min-Seok KIM misses out by 0.01, first dance couple to not reach the score is Yiyi ZHANG / Nan WU. For Ladies it goes all the way down to 82 - Karen KEMANAI is the first to miss the cut.
    Of course, the numbers of qualified skaters are reduced if you factor in skaters retiring/skipping the Grand Prix season, but apart from Pairs it's not too bad?

  11. #471

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    7.6 Replacements
    It is mandatory that an Organizing Member replaces any skater/couple who withdraws from the event with an
    alternate up to fourteen (14) days prior to the draw for that event. At the seven day mark, consideration will
    be given by the ISU Grand Prix Coordination Group to leaving a position vacant because of visa
    requirements or unduly high travel costs that would be incurred by the Organizing Member.
    The alternate list will include the following skaters/couples:
    • Come back skaters will be placed in the top position of the alternate list.
    • Split couples who were previously in the top 12 of a World Championship would be next on the list
    taking the points of the previous partner. This places them in second top position on the alternate
    listing.
    • Skaters in proper order of top 24 season’s best would be next.
    • Skaters from the top 24 who have only one event will be listed in the next order and should be
    picked in that order (done by points).
    • All other Skaters in the top 75 season’s best would be listed next.
    • Selected International Competitions’ winners are placed on the bottom of the alternate listing.
    In the skater/couple selection process, for Pairs and Ice Dance, who were placed amongst the ranks as
    mentioned above in the year 2009/2010 or 2010/2011 and have reached the Grand Prix minimum score in
    the period as required, but have split, will be considered in the alternate list with the new partner, if proof is
    given that they intend
    The replacement section...quoted above, gives the top 2 considerations to comeback skaters, ahead of top 75 Season Best skaters.
    Is it just me..or is that an odd refinement?
    Last edited by Sedge; 07-26-2011 at 05:39 PM. Reason: to revise quote style

  12. #472
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    Wow, I am massively massively disappointed.

    I naively expected that all scores from B-Internationals would count but it's only the winners that will be even considered...

    Very very stupid decision considering that the level of those events varies wildly.

    Those result should just count for Season's Best purposes, as far as GP entry goes.

  13. #473

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    Quote from Sedge's post:

    "7.6 Replacements
    It is mandatory that an Organizing Member replaces any skater/couple who withdraws from the event with an alternate up to fourteen (14) days prior to the draw for that event. At the seven day mark, consideration will be given by the ISU Grand Prix Coordination Group to leaving a position vacant because of visa requirements or unduly high travel costs that would be incurred by the Organizing Member."

    I don't understand what happens between Day 7 and Day 14. Can anyone clarify?

  14. #474

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedge View Post
    The replacement section...quoted above, gives the top 2 considerations to comeback skaters, ahead of top 75 Season Best skaters.
    Is it just me..or is that an odd refinement?
    ETA: Nevermind, I'd miss understood. Sorry.
    Last edited by C_T_T_; 07-26-2011 at 07:04 PM.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Wow, I am massively massively disappointed.

    I naively expected that all scores from B-Internationals would count but it's only the winners that will be even considered...

    Very very stupid decision considering that the level of those events varies wildly.

    Those result should just count for Season's Best purposes, as far as GP entry goes.
    I think you're mixing things up.

    The scores from Senior "B" competitions in the late summer and early autumn are used to help skaters who didn't get a qualifying score at an ISU championship get a qualifying score for the Grand Prix.

    (Example: The fifth-placed man at U.S. Nationals might not get sent to either Worlds, Four Continents, or Junior Worlds. He could then skate at Nebelhorn, finish second but earn a score that was high enough to qualfy for the Grand Prix.)

    In addition, the winners of the selected international competitions such as Senior "B's" qualify even if they didn't have a Top 75 Season's Best.

    (Example: The second-placed lady at Uzbekistani Nationals improves enormously during the off-season. With no international experience to speak of, she goes to the Ice Challenge and skates the lights out, winning the competition. She is now eligible for the Grand Prix, but is at the bottom of the alternates list.)

  16. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I think you're mixing things up.
    I am not mixing things up, I just expected all the scores earned during the B-Internationals to be counted for the alternate list purposes.

    But only the winners will be taken into consideration.

    And the winner rule doesn't make any sense.

    For example:

    Ladies Winners:
    Cup of Nice 2010 - 166.70
    Ice Challenge 2010 - 132.43

  17. #477
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    A few changes/clarifications I noticed:

    1. They no longer replace seeds (1-6) by moving up skaters who've exceeded the SB by a top 6 couple or from the couple who places 7th or below. For this season's GP, that means no replacement for Yankowskas/Couglin (6) or Ando (1).

    They do continue to replace any skaters, including split couples from 7-12 position, which means Chock/Zuerlein (9) and Crone Poirier (10) for this season, which bumped up Monko/Khaliavin (8 on SB, over I/K) and Riazanova/Tkachenko (13 on SB, over Z/G).

    2. All initial picks for host selections must have a minimum score and (ETA) and/or placement in the top 75 last year, but they can be replaced by skaters who do not meet these requirements. They allowed TBD ([Country]) on the schedule, which could mean that TBD skaters do not have to meet these criteria, but that's not explicit.

    This would be good news for Khoklova, since she does not qualify under the "split couple rule", which, like last year, requires that the 1-12 placement with the former partner be attained in the last two seasons.

    3. The minimum scores set at 2/3 of the highest SP/SD plus the highest FS/FD include PCS, which puts lesser-known/lower-ranked skaters at a disadvantage and must be attained in the last season (1 July 2010-31 May 2011).

    Since there is no minimum score language in 2.2.e, which lists top 75 SB as eligible for an invitation, there's another paragraph that lists the six competitions in Fall 2011 (outside last season) at which at top 75 SB skater could meet the minimum score requirements if they haven't already.

    Ladies: Minimum Score: 117,48. #75 earned 120.78
    Men: Minimum Score: 168,60. Cut-off is #60 (168.65), which just edges Korea's Min-Seok Kim @ 168,59. Among the senior men, that also impacts Pfeiffer (66), Raya (68), Wieczorek (70), and Kelemen (73).
    Dance: Minimum Score: 111,15. Cut-off is #59 (111.39). Senior couples this impacts are Arnold/Trojek (64), Guan/Wang (66), O'Brien/Merriman (68), Turoczi/Major (71).
    Pairs: Minimum Score: 130,71. Cut-off is #33, the most drastic of all. This impacts seniors Kemp/King (34), Zhang/Toth (35), Kabijako/Kulbach (36), Bakirova/Kamianchuk (41), Gierok/Just (43), Khnychenkova/Magyar (52), Hoolin/Safranek (55), Martini/Kiefer (60). Apologies if I've missed any break-up notices among them.

    This would have a much bigger impact if applied to championships, but apart from Kemp/King, and they can try to reach the minimum score, if their Federations are willing to spring for the $$, at one of the six fall senior B's.

    4. They've added a line to the Jr. Worlds and JGPF medalists paragraph under "Invited Skaters": "Skaters/couples who have stated their intention to skate as Senior in 2011/12 might be included in the Grand Prix event(s) if they fulfil the requirements of the minimum score."

    I'm not sure what the change is here. If a Federation submits a couples names for selection, wouldn't that mean that they are skating seniors this season?

    5. Seeds can opt to do three events, with best two placements counting towards GPF qualification. "Should a seeded skater/couple not complete the third event for any reason, the equivalent of 20% of the total prize money, that the skater/couple has received in the first two events, must be reimbursed to the ISU or will be deducted from the next possible contribution of the ISU to the Member of the skater/couple concerned." (5)

    6. The Alternates List: -- already posted when I was writing this. It creates a specific order in which to invite substitutes.

    Unclear:

    1. Do the skaters on the alternates list have to have been submitted by the summer deadline, i.e., that if Skater A wins Nebelhorn and does not already have two (or three) assignments, s/he only can be invited is s/he was on the original submission list by the Federation? If a pairs or dancer skater teams up with a new partner after the Federation list was submitted, are they SOL, even if they win a senior B before GP? Do the Federations submit individual or team names on the GP list?

    2. Come-back skaters are already on the guaranteed two events list, but that is a one-off. Does the alternates provision that "Come back skaters will be placed in the top position of the alternate list." apply to come back skaters that weren't originally submitted, ex: didn't know if they'd be ready? A skater/team that had to take more than one season off due to injury, after he/she/they have already used up their one shot for automatic spots? Both?

    3. #2 on the list is "Split couples who were previously in the top 12 of a World Championship would be next on the list taking the points of the previous partner. This places them in second top position on the alternate listing." Here, the wording seems to be any World Championship top 12 placement, while under "Invited Skaters" (2.2.f) it states, "Pairs or Dance couples, who were placed amongst the ranks as previously mentioned in criteria a) and b) in the year 2009/10 or 2010/11, have reached the minimum score as required, but have split, will be considered in the alternate list with the new partner, if proof is given in writing by their Member that they intend to continue their competitive career." which limits it by the last two seasons. Also, if they have to meet the minimum score requirements, and the period for minimum scores goes back one season, if someone qualified two seasons ago, is this is an exception to the minimum score period or would they have to qualify with a minimum score before any GP events?

    ETA: Just realized that this is qualified at the end to state that it is restricted to the last two seasons, but the minimum score must be met in the qualifying period. Do they consider the six fall events to be in addition to the 1 Jul 10-31 May 11 qualifying period?


    Retained:

    1. 1-24 on the SB and WR lists are guaranteed 1. Top 75 SB can be invited after all guaranteed spots are assigned, but minimum score requirements must be met before the GP.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 07-26-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Those result should just count for Season's Best purposes, as far as GP entry goes.
    I agree with the exception that the Senior B scores get mixed in with the Top 75 group. That would put top Senior B scores behind the Top 24 SB and WS on the list but ahead of some top 75 skaters if the Senior B score is high enough. Putting the Senior B top scorers behind the Top 75 is pointless.

    Now, with this "improved" alternates list AND the GP minimum scores I don't see why they had to reduce the number of GP spots.

  19. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    Now, with this "improved" alternates list AND the GP minimum scores I don't see why they had to reduce the number of GP spots.
    The only thing "improved" about the alternates list is the ranking, IMO. It impacts so few skaters, the top 75 who don't meet the minimum score, and it gives them a chance to meet that criterion this fall.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  20. #480

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    So top 12 skaters who split and have new partners are considered before the other top 24 SB teams... Uhmmm Im not sure if for instance Chock & Bates deserve an event before Hoffmann & Zavozin get their 2nd one.

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