Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Anglia and Saxony
    Posts
    13,847
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Where Have the Good Men Gone?

    Would love to read y'alls thoughts on this controversial essay from the WSJ:
    Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This "pre-adulthood" has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But it's time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesn't bring out the best in men.

    ...

    Today's pre-adult male is like an actor in a drama in which he only knows what he shouldn't say. He has to compete in a fierce job market, but he can't act too bossy or self-confident. He should be sensitive but not paternalistic, smart but not cocky. To deepen his predicament, because he is single, his advisers and confidants are generally undomesticated guys just like him.

    Single men have never been civilization's most responsible actors; they continue to be more troubled and less successful than men who deliberately choose to become husbands and fathers. So we can be disgusted if some of them continue to live in rooms decorated with "Star Wars" posters and crushed beer cans and to treat women like disposable estrogen toys, but we shouldn't be surprised.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Posts
    4,920
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11643
    Where have they gone...have they ever existed in the first place? Sorry, feeling rather jaded today.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    US East Coast
    Posts
    8,467
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Zombieland
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,997
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3166
    So is it weird that they're claiming this is a new phenomenon but illustrating the article with photos of movie characters from the 60s and 70s? (And earlier, in Marty's case?)

    Anyway, I can't say I know *that* many 20-something men these days, but my nephews were in that age bracket until recently and neither one fits the "slacker" stereotype at all except for liking Star Wars, which I didn't realize was a character defect. It does seem like people are waiting longer to get married, but I'm not sure that's automatically a bad thing either.

    This article just sounds like yet another "Man, the kids these days suck, unlike back in (some golden age that never existed in reality)" lament to me.
    "Liking this sport is ridiculous, so you’re a little different for liking it, she explained. But you’re allowed to like what you like." - Robert Samuels

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,527
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron W View Post
    All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out.


    Anyway, I think the author's just pissed that she can't get a date. There's never been an ideal generation of anyone.
    Last edited by jenny12; 06-10-2011 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Anglia and Saxony
    Posts
    13,847
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron W View Post
    All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out.


    Quote Originally Posted by CynicElle View Post
    So is it weird that they're claiming this is a new phenomenon but illustrating the article with photos of movie characters from the 60s and 70s? (And earlier, in Marty's case?)

    This article just sounds like yet another "Man, the kids these days suck, unlike back in (some golden age that never existed in reality)" lament to me.
    I got that sense, too. In my job, I interact regularly with college students and post-college folks and, honestly, most of the people I deal with may be a little naive/inexperienced, but they're not slackers. She sounds like a bitter Gen X'er, trying to get her digs in at the Millennials. One thing I did agree with is when she writes that young people today want their jobs to be their careers and their careers should be an extension of their self-defined personhood. I think that's a fair assessment.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Walking to Work
    Posts
    25,658
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    17666
    Was it ever perfect? The sexes have been complaining about each other since Adam and Eve.

  8. #8
    Just me
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    no place special
    Posts
    6,729
    vCash
    9350
    Rep Power
    985
    If this is to end in fire
    Then we will all burn together

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Singleville aka 7th Circle of Hell
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,347
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6160
    I would MUCH RATHER have an immature, pre-adolescent man of today than all the manly-men of yesteryear combined.

    Give me someone with a Star Wars poster who crushes beer can than some guy who regards women simply as possession who breeds, worth slightly less than a horse. If she thinks guys today treat women as "estrogen toys" she needs to seriously brush up on her social history. Reading a romance novel written in the 1970s would be an eye-opening experience (he kidnapped her, slapped her, raped her, but then they got married and it was TOTALLY romantic. ) for this author.

    I also don't think she'd appreciate it too much if a male wrote an article called "Where have all the good females gone" that lamented a time when women dressed in skirts and dresses and slaved away at the stove, catering solely to her man's needs.

    Beyond that, the whole article is badly written and muddled. I'm really not sure what point she's trying to make. Star Wars is for geeks? Men can't be men while the economy is down because having a job is the definite characteristic of adulthood? All single men are dumb and need a woman to make them smart?
    "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." –Olympic Charter

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,862
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron W View Post
    All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where banjos play.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    8,070
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm fairly immature myself, and I'm attracted to the geeks with star wars and lord of the rings posters. My last relationship was with someone 7 years younger than me. People can keep their Mad Men idealistic men. I'll take the geeks.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Top of Utah!!
    Age
    55
    Posts
    7,351
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2814
    I have one...
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Missing Matsutake
    Posts
    2,737
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    My good man is home here with me, rubbing my feet as a I post on FSU(incidentally I am a good man as well). I guess perhaps most good men are simply attracted to other 'good men' rather than to women?

  14. #14
    Skating Pairs with Drew
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In Uber Rehab
    Posts
    12,171
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It is not just men. This has been going on for some time. Even way back when I was in college there was information out on the developing stage of development called Youth. People are sort of completing tasks of adolescence but not moving on to adulthood emotionally. Pretty common nowdays even in those who have taken on adult tasks such as job and family. They still exhibit a huge amount of immaturity through the thirties and even later.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    11,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Where have they gone...have they ever existed in the first place? Sorry, feeling rather jaded today.
    ((( Cheylana ))) I'm sorry that you're unattactive having a sad/jaded day.

    But seriously ... Hang in there, girl. Here at my workplace I see many impressive twenty and thirtysomething men ... all probably straight, good-looking, able, polite, and seemingly honest. Can't vouch for their respective living situations (and I think that some are into "gaming" on their BlackBerries), but I think "they - 'good men'" are out there!

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,634
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I have one!

  17. #17
    Rooting for the Underdogs
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Politicking for P&B and V&M
    Posts
    1,630
    vCash
    887
    Rep Power
    0
    There are good men out there. It's just that they all already have wives/girlfriends/partners.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,763
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron W View Post
    All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out.
    I don't care about those materialistic things. I just need one that'll say "Yes"

  19. #19
    Bountifully Enmeshed
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    At the Christmas Bizarre
    Posts
    37,708
    vCash
    250
    Rep Power
    16217
    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    It is not just men. This has been going on for some time. Even way back when I was in college there was information out on the developing stage of development called Youth. People are sort of completing tasks of adolescence but not moving on to adulthood emotionally. Pretty common nowdays even in those who have taken on adult tasks such as job and family. They still exhibit a huge amount of immaturity through the thirties and even later.
    The more complex life is, the longer it takes for the young to mature. There's nothing new in that.

    I will say, however, that statistically speaking, young men are not doing very well overall, even with that in mind.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    La Belle Province
    Age
    35
    Posts
    13,267
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2979
    Quote Originally Posted by Satellitegirl View Post
    I'm fairly immature myself, and I'm attracted to the geeks with star wars and lord of the rings posters. My last relationship was with someone 7 years younger than me. People can keep their Mad Men idealistic men. I'll take the geeks.
    As someone who's been immersed in Doctor Who the last two weeks, I'll take the geeks too.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •