What is the difference between a Death Spiral/Inside Death Spiral?

[FSWer]

Say,I always thought a Death Spiral was a Death Spiral. As that's when the male spins the girl on her feet. Or what not.What makes an inside Death an inside Death?

[Clarice]

It depends what edge the girl is on. She can be on a forward outside or inside edge, or a backward outside or inside edge.

[Sylvia]

Death spirals are defined by the skate blade edge and direction of the female pair skater when she is circling around her male partner. So that means there are 4 possible death spirals: forward inside edge, back inside edge, back outside edge, and forward outside edge.

I would post youtube video examples but you can't watch youtube on your computer, right?

ETA: Some photos of the different death spirals can be viewed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_s...ure_skating%29
(try and picture the female circling her male partner in a counterclockwise direction on the ice)

[sk8er1964]

When I (briefly) did adult pairs, I could do the forward inside, but the back outside scared me - yet I've heard other people say the back outside is easier. Then again, I'd rather do a flip than a toe loop any day, so there's no accounting for taste.

Anyway, back to the death spiral, you have to have the right amount of tension between the hands/arms of the couple. One time we didn't, and my partner let go and I slid almost all the way across the ice (long ways). It was kind of fun, actually.

The other thing is that I felt so low to the ice and like I was going into it so fast, but when I saw it on video, umm, not so much. Oh well, it wasn't a bad effort for people in their 40's.

[Vash01]

Say,I always thought a Death Spiral was a Death Spiral. As that's when the male spins the girl on her feet. Or what not.What makes an inside Death an inside Death?

There are 4 types of death spirals- forward inside (the easiest, IMO), back inside, back outside, and forward outside (very rare, but I think S&Z had performed it long ago). From the name itself it's easy to identify the woman's edge (inside or outside) and the direction of her movement on the ice (forward or backward).

[skatemommy]

The Protopopov's named them all...too tired right now to find a link.

[Aussie Willy]

Death Spiral is the name of the move. Inside or outside refers to what edge it is done on. Forwards or backwards is the way the lady is facing when she does the death spiral.

[Sylvia]

The Protopopov's named them all...too tired right now to find a link.

From the Wikipedia link I posted above:

History

The backward outside death spiral was invented in the early 1900s by Charlotte Oelschlagel, although it was first performed with the skaters holding both hands and the lady not fully lowered towards the ice. The current one-handed version was developed in the 1940s by the Canadian pair Suzanne Morrow and Wallace Diestelmeyer. The other death spiral variants were invented by Ludmila Belousova and Oleg Protopopov in the 1960s. They assigned the following names to them: Cosmic spiral (Backward Inside), Life spiral (Forward Inside), and Love spiral (Forward Outside).

[Macassar88]

There are four types of death spiral that all depend on the direction she is spinning (forward and backward) and the edge she's using (inside and outside).
ISU rates the outside edge ones harder.

[taf2002]

This is an interesting subject. I think the longer you watch skating, the more you focus on the edge of the blade. At least that was true for me. One easy way to tell outside from inside is that on inside, the lady's feet are neatly crossed. With the outside edge, her free leg is lifted.

[skatemommy]

^actually, the free leg is not lifted in the FORWARD outside death spiral

^^thanks Sylvia as usual

[julieann]

I would like to see more skaters try the FiDs, it must be very difficult needing strength and balance. I would like to see the free leg up vs. the way S/Z did it with the free leg bent and close to body.

FoDs

[DustPuppyOI]

This is an interesting subject. I think the longer you watch skating, the more you focus on the edge of the blade. At least that was true for me. One easy way to tell outside from inside is that on inside, the lady's feet are neatly crossed. With the outside edge, her free leg is lifted.

^actually, the free leg is not lifted in the FORWARD outside death spiral

^^thanks Sylvia as usual

Early Shen & Zhao (1998!) had the free leg up on the forward outside spiral: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM

Brasseur & Eisler had a non lifted leg version back in 1993: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWhLmuhfgGU

(Clearly I haven't been watching much of pairs lately )

[gkelly]

I would like to see more skaters try the FiDs,

You mean FoDs?

it must be very difficult needing strength and balance. I would like to see the free leg up vs. the way S/Z did it with the free leg bent and close to body.

FoDs

Well, they used to do it with the free leg straight, before it was a feature to bend it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM

[julieann]

You mean FoDs?

[url] it must be very difficult needing strength and balance. I would like to see the free leg up vs. the way S/Z did it with the free leg bent and close to body.

FoDs

Well, they used to do it with the free leg straight, before it was a feature to bend it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM[/QUOTE]

Yes, your right...too many acronyms

I like variations but the bent leg looks like if she fell she really could have cut herself. I like the straight leg one, thanks for finding it.

[skatemommy]

Well, they used to do it with the free leg straight, before it was a feature to bend it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM

Yet another thing about pairs that COP has ruined. My least favorite part is the spiral sequence - watching a male pair skater grab his blade and attempt to hoist it above the hip

[taf2002]

^actually, the free leg is not lifted in the FORWARD outside death spiral

^^thanks Sylvia as usual

Sorry, I was trying to devise a simple way to identify the different ones that I forgot about FODS. It seems that BODS are more common than forward.

[skatemommy]

^actually taf, I'm wrong. The old-fashioned FODS were done with a straight let. I forgot that the COP death spirals could actually have the lady's free leg over her head all in the name of points Can you tell which one I like better? Also hate pair spins now...

[Castlerock]

What is supposed to be the correct position of the lady? Sometimes they are very low to the ice and feet together. Other times it looks like they are having a hard time arching their back and the foot is way up and bent?

[gkelly]

What is supposed to be the correct position of the lady? Sometimes they are very low to the ice and feet together. Other times it looks like they are having a hard time arching their back and the foot is way up and bent?

Here are the guidelines for the tech panel calling death spirals and their features, which may answer some of your questions:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...id%20Pairs.pdf

It seems to me from years of watching but not paying close attention that on the back inside death spiral sometimes the lady is supine (face up) with the handhold leading the travel of her body, and sometimes she is prone (body facing down) but arched up to look up at the partner, with her blade leading and the handhold following her body. That body position is also common in forward inside death spirals.

Are there any pair skaters reading here who can confirm? And is it possible to transition from one to the other of those positions just by speeding up or slowing down the lady's travel in relation to the man's, or are the two possible positions mutually exclusive in the same death spiral?

I don't have time to look for examples, but maybe I will later.