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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianFan View Post
    What on earth would a competitive skater like Plushenko come back for if not to win???
    Actually I tend to agree with that, so in that case he shouldnt return at all since he cant even hope to compete with someone like Chan at this point of his career unless Chan skates half the program on his ass. And with his advancing age and the mens field regaining their quads and mojo he could get left in the dust completely. The only reason he was even a contender in Vancouver was he was the only guy who skated cleanly doing quads. His jumps werent even that strong anymore, most of them were crooked and eked out, but like a cat he always found a way to land them somehow. If more guys start doing quads as well (many are already doing them as we saw in Moscow), he will have nothing on the field anymore.

    He wont ever become the Plushenko of 1999-2006 again, and the Plushenko of even 2010 for sure is not nearly good enough anymore, never mind an even older and more physically beat up one. He can make a nice life in show skating, or whatever else, he should stick to that now.

  2. #42

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    No one knows that more than him! He has said it himself! He doesn't care. He wants to compete. I am sure I can find stuff from 2009 to that effect. I probably read it here in FSU.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    I remember watching Rudolph Nureyev dance over the years. He refused to quit when he was on top, and he just kept taking the stage long after his physical facility had left him.

    No doubt Plushy is in good shape right now, but I do hope, for his sake as a great skater, that he will recognize when it is time to retire. If he's going to try to make it to Sochi-and maybe he can-good for him. But there's nothing sadder than watching a once-great talent implode in public.

    Here's hoping it won't happen to him. But if he keeps trying to extend his career on and on and on, it will happen eventually.

    Not being negative. Just realistic.

    I don't think he'd carry on longer than he should. I think he's pretty switched on. He wants to win and be the best. Nothing wrong with that. And I think he's more than aware of the fact that when he starts not winning all the time, it's time to go. I don't think he'd carry on to Sochi if he couldn't win.

    I think one telling marker will be Russian Nats. He's been untouchable there for so long. If he gets beaten there/is run close, that'll be a warning sign for him (although no doubt he'll be delighted that there are other Russian champions in the making!)

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Why he didn't appeal the decision when it was made - what would be the grounds for the appeal? By appealing he would be actually saying that he is being punished unfairly, whereas I think he knows he is being punished fairly, so in my view he took the punishment, hoping that he will be later to reinstate the eligibility as some others have done in the past.

    Please go back and read my post on page 1. He did not appeal because a Court of Arbitration for Sport ruling is binding. He thought it better to let the ISU have their way than possibly antagonize them further by having CAS rule in his favour and forcing the ISU to let him compete. It was an extremely intelligent decision. He still thinks the punishment was unfair - I think the whole darned saga was unfair - but he knows that if he actually wants to win anything it's smarter to not step on too many toes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Maybe I'm being unfair -- okay, more than likely I'm being unfair -- but sometimes I get the impression that he thinks no one but himself should ever win Olympic gold.
    You're being very unfair. Nowadays he'll readily admit that Yagudin deserved the gold in SLC. (If it's taken him eight years to admit it - well, to be fair, he and Yagudin had such an intense rivalry that it's taken them eight years to start being nice to each other in the press again!) He really had no competition in Turin, except maybe Lambiel, but Lambiel's lack of 3A was always going to hurt him. I can understand his confusion/anger/hurt at the Vancouver result, but at no point did he say that Lysacek skated badly. In fact, he has said that Lysacek skated very well. He just thinks that the quad should have been worth more at the time.

    Plushenko doesn't like losing - and what top-level sportsman does? But he can be satisfied if the person who beats him does it on skill, is truly better than him. I think I read somewhere that if he had to lose in Vancouver he'd have been happy for it to be to Takahashi, because he sees Takahashi as someone like himself - someone who enjoys going for the hard jumps, someone who likes to take risks with his programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    While the rules talk about reinstatement, that clause is in there for people to come back as judges and officials. There were several periods where former eligible skaters were allowed to apply for reinstatement to get their eligibility back to skate but those windows are now closed. I don't believe Plushenko has an option to apply for reinstatement at this point unless he wants to become a technical controller or something (which would be awesome in it's own way).


    If the option wasn't there, WHY DID CINQUANTTA OFFER IT?!>?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?1??!

    HE IS ALLOWED TO APPLY FOR REINSTATEMENT AS AN ELIGIBLE SKATER. HE WAS NEVER BANNED FOR LIFE. THESE TWO POINTS WERE MADE CLEAR BY THE ISU LONG AGO.

    When will it get through some thick skulls?!?!?!?!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    When will it get through some thick skulls?!?!?!?!
    I don't think I'm the one with a thick skull here.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I don't think I'm the one with a thick skull here.
    Considering it has been expressly stated by the ISU, RFSF, Plushenko, Mishin, everyone under the freaking sun that he has the option of applying for reinstatement...

    I believe my original point stands.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    No, you don't.
    There's no need to be rude. I might have phrased that badly, though; what I meant is that his work ethic is admirable, as is the fact that he chose to go out and fight again rather than rest on his laurels. I doubt he's arrogant enough to deny that it's more than possible for Chan and/or Kozuka to overtake him, and he's going to fight as hard as he can to stay on top.

    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    entire post
    Agreed, for the most part. Though I think that, even if he isn't winning, he'll stick around as long as he thinks he'll be useful. If he's consistently in the position to be, say, 2-8 at worlds, he's a safeguard for Russia's 2-3 spots in case Gachinski (or whoever else makes the world team next year) has a bad day.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by olifaunt View Post
    There's no need to be rude. I might have phrased that badly, though; what I meant is that his work ethic is admirable, as is the fact that he chose to go out and fight again rather than rest on his laurels.
    How do you know those are his reasons?
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    While the rules talk about reinstatement, that clause is in there for people to come back as judges and officials. There were several periods where former eligible skaters were allowed to apply for reinstatement to get their eligibility back to skate but those windows are now closed. I don't believe Plushenko has an option to apply for reinstatement at this point unless he wants to become a technical controller or something (which would be awesome in it's own way).
    That is not the way the current rule is written. There were three cases, one of which involved officials and two of which involved skaters. Only one case very specifically allowed reinstatement, and that was one of the skaters' cases, and it is the scenario under which he lost eligibility.

    There is no exception being made for Plushenko. The Russian Federation has the right to apply for reinstatement under the clause that allows this, and ISU has the right to review the application for reinstatement made by the Russian Fed. The ISU can decide any way they see fit.

    Plushenko had gained weight after his win in Torino, and he was not training for competition when he decided to make a comeback for Vancouver. He lost weight as quickly as he could and did an accelerated training program. I think for Vancouver he ran out of time, and had he started three to six months before, he would likely have been a repeat Olympic champion in 2010.

    His approach for Sochi is long-term. I am guardedly optimistic that with a more reasonable training schedule working to peak in Sochi, that he'll be stronger than in Vancouver and has a very good shot at the podium.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    How do you know those are his reasons?
    He likes skating and competing and (like every human being in the history of the planet) winning. What other reasons could he have?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Considering it has been expressly stated by the ISU, RFSF, Plushenko, Mishin, everyone under the freaking sun that he has the option of applying for reinstatement...
    He can apply but it's unlikely he'll get it. Which, IMO, is why I think he hasn't applied and why we are getting all these news articles about it. People are playing politics in the public arena trying to soften up the ISU.

    But continue to beat your head against the wall because someone disagrees with you.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  11. #51

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    My view of that is you are taking Plushenko's not applying for the 2010-2011 too seriously! Even though he was scheduled for 2010 CoR I doubt he would have went even if he didn't lose eligibility. The wheels of applying for reinstatement are in motion.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    He can apply but it's unlikely he'll get it. Which, IMO, is why I think he hasn't applied and why we are getting all these news articles about it. People are playing politics in the public arena trying to soften up the ISU.

    But continue to beat your head against the wall because someone disagrees with you.
    Why? What´s the point to give a skater the opportunity to apply but to deny him the reinstatement? Cinquanta encourged him personally to send the request to his Federation and to ISU.
    Since you suggest that ISU will reject the request, maybe you can also tell us the reasons, because the rules don´t specify them.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    LOL he was beaten in technical marks by LYSACEK in Vancouver. Of course he is technically inferior to Chan at this point his career, Chan is doing quads and triples much better than the ones Plushenko was doing in Vancouver, and his spins and footwork are at a whole other level at this point. And who cares about consistency since Chan could afford atleast 4 falls and still be able to beat Plushenko if Plushenko is at his Vancouver level (which he will probably be worse than as he continues to age on an already injured and battered body). Kozuka skating as he did in the Worlds LP would blow away Plushenko from Vancouver in atleast the LP phase as well. And for the record I dont even like Chan and do like Plushenko but he would be dumb to come back if the main reason he is coming back is to win. If he is coming back for other reasons then it isnt so bad, but somehow I doubt that given his reactions to not winning in Vancouver.
    Even if I agree that Chan and Kozuka are very strong skaters and it could be impossible for Plushenko to beat them, I notice that you´re predictions are based on the assumption that Chan and Kozuka will skate like they did this year or even better while Plushenko will skate like in Vancouver or even worse. Even more, that all skaters might improve until next season or Sochi, except Plushenko.
    Probably you´re considering his age, that´s why you´re so sure about the outcome, but I also remember how people were predicting Chan´s results based on the fact that he would never be able to add quads to his programs. Let´s give Plushenko a chance too.

  14. #54
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  15. #55
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    Originally Posted by ItalianFan
    What on earth would a competitive skater like Plushenko come back for if not to win???
    well,I don't think he comes back mainly for winning...

    I've many guesses,one of them is like Yagudin said
    "As for Evgeni, I just think he didn’t find himself in this different world. He knows how to do figure skating. And he knows it really-really well. But he doesn’t know who he is besides figure skating. "
    http://www.absoluteskating.com/index...1alexeiyagudin

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    He can apply but it's unlikely he'll get it. Which, IMO, is why I think he hasn't applied and why we are getting all these news articles about it. People are playing politics in the public arena trying to soften up the ISU.
    I believe Plushenko will be reinstated MacMadame. It is possible to find many reasons: the Russian federation did not follow procedure in alerting him, the ISU unreasonably withheld sanction for his participation in the show etc. I don't exactly remember the circumstances, but a less important skater might not have been punished for withdrawing from the post-Olympic Worlds and skating in a show (not a pro competition) anyway. I don't remember this happening to any other skater before.

    I don't mind his being reinstated in this case. It's not like he had taken illegal substances, or even participated in a professional competition. Actually I think in some ways he does the sport good. Men's jump content was going downhill and his participation in the Olympics pushed them to work more on their quads and 4+3's IMO. Maybe this had an effect on this year's much higher jump content.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Do I see a single tear rolling down his cheek?
    No that's just the death in his soul.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Afterall isn't the possibility of Plushy competing again a punishment for us all?
    us like human mankind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    us like human mankind?
    Did you forget that Plushy caused the earthquake in Japan in order to move Worlds to Russia and force ISU to reinstate him????

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Maybe I'm being unfair -- okay, more than likely I'm being unfair -- but sometimes I get the impression that he thinks no one but himself should ever win Olympic gold.
    You're not a competitor if you don't think that way. Otherwise, why enter the competition. There are skaters who skate and there are skaters who compete to win. He's a competitor. Enough of one he came from being way out of shape in little over a year to winning a second silver medal at the Olympics and very nearly another gold. I'm not a particular fan of his skating, but I admire that spirit and would cheer if won gold in Sochi.
    Adelina Sotnikova defeated the curse of Esta She is indeed the Greatest Of All Time!

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