Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 180
  1. #101

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,142
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3151
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    True. Judges in Moscow would have given Czisny higher PCS if they had decent opinions.
    das ist korrekt

  2. #102
    Argle-Bargle-ist
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Age
    50
    Posts
    8,493
    vCash
    875
    Rep Power
    44301
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Slutskaya probably should have won 4 or 5 World titles and 2 Olympic Golds. There were many times more she would have a big title with a clean skate. She lacked the competitive nerve of Kwan or Lipinski though.
    I have to agree. From the moment Lipinski began her career as a senior skater, all the way through through to her final amateur performance, her competitive nerve was unmatched. How she was able to acheive this over such a long period is indeed a marvel.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  3. #103
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,933
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    True. Judges in Moscow would have given Czisny higher PCS if they had decent opinions.
    And Miki Andozzzz much lower ones.

  4. #104
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,792
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I have to agree. From the moment Lipinski began her career as a senior skater, all the way through through to her final amateur performance, her competitive nerve was unmatched. How she was able to acheive this over such a long period is indeed a marvel.
    She was only senior for 3 years...only a factor for two. Her medal tally in those two years was impressive though...but I wouldn't call two years a long period of time.

    I never paid attention to the pro-circuit back then. How did she fare there? Better yet, how long did she compete professionally? I know she had to have hip replacement surgery a few years after Nagano, but I can't remember if she continued to skate after that...

    Either way, I enjoy her commentary for IN and US...most of the time anyway...
    Last edited by kwanatic; 06-07-2011 at 09:01 PM.

  5. #105
    Watch me move
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gwyneth Paltrow Fan Club headquarters
    Posts
    16,709
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    HAHA. I never said i was more qualified in matters of taste than yourself, i just found it amusing that someone used the fact that someone being a judge made them qualified to have a decent opinion about a program when the worst thing about skating is the judging. I prefer skaters with pretty/balletic positions and flow, not leaping around like mad circus freaks... each to their own though....

    I am a qualified stylist though. Her costume was hideous.
    And we should believe you are a qualified stylist because you come on the Internet and say you are? That makes you no more or no less qualified than anyone else to have an opinion on the subject.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  6. #106
    Argle-Bargle-ist
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Age
    50
    Posts
    8,493
    vCash
    875
    Rep Power
    44301
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    She was only senior for 3 years...only a factor for two. Her medal tally in those two years was impressive though...but I wouldn't call two years a long period of time.
    Sense of humour check, register three.

    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  7. #107
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Roses are red, violets are blue, this poem is dumb and so are you.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    3,189
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I have to agree. From the moment Lipinski began her career as a senior skater, all the way through through to her final amateur performance, her competitive nerve was unmatched. How she was able to acheive this over such a long period is indeed a marvel.

  8. #108

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3645
    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And we should believe you are a qualified stylist because you come on the Internet and say you are? That makes you no more or no less qualified than anyone else to have an opinion on the subject.
    You missed Warhol's point. The point is that someone's claim to work as a judge does not make him/her a superior observer. Throughout the years, judges have made bigger idiots of themselves than any other individuals in the sport (except perhaps certain federation officials). The point is share your views and let them stand on merit.

    Last edited by TheIronLady; 06-08-2011 at 05:53 AM.

  9. #109
    Watch me move
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gwyneth Paltrow Fan Club headquarters
    Posts
    16,709
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    You missed Warhol's point. The point is that someone's claim to work as a judge does not make him/her a superior observer. Throughout the years, judges have made bigger idiots of themselves than any other individuals in the sport (except perhaps certain federation officials). The point is share your views and let them stand on merit.
    No, I didn't miss Warhol's point. While there have been some very obvious examples of biased or political judging, the majority of judges are honest, very hard-working, and knowledgeable. And since most of them spend many more hours watching and evaluating skating than the average skating fan does, I think their opinions have a certain amount of informed credibility.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  10. #110

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,889
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    5368
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I have to agree. From the moment Lipinski began her career as a senior skater, all the way through through to her final amateur performance, her competitive nerve was unmatched. How she was able to acheive this over such a long period is indeed a marvel.


    You must spread more rep around...

  11. #111
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
    Posts
    20,084
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    They're both perky but Alena's perkiness level is off the scale. She's just totally OTT.

    And she doesn't have Irina's basics.

  12. #112

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    South from Siena, La bella Toscana
    Posts
    4,747
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8861
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    They're both perky but Alena's perkiness level is off the scale. She's just totally OTT.

    And she doesn't have Irina's basics.
    Who is that poster playing to be our nasty Ziggy? What has happend to him?

    I am not a Leonova fan, but I think she has different style than Slutskaya. The comparison is just silly.

  13. #113

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3645
    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    ...the majority of judges are honest, very hard-working, and knowledgeable..
    There is not a whole lot of evidence of this. It may depend what country you are from and which judges you have experience with, but the independence of judges is not well established. Their character and work ethic doesn't seem high at all as compared to coaches and athletes.

    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    . And since most of them spend many more hours watching and evaluating skating than the average skating fan does, I think their opinions have a certain amount of informed credibility.
    Yes, I will give you this point. They are better equiped than anyone else to speak about the judging process and rules, and their eyes are trained by their experience. But again, their judgment has not proven to be exceptional. There are unsavory interpretations of the rules that many judges do not acknowledge for political reasons (to keep their jobs). In other words, their justifications for decisions are not always straightforward. The aggregate process of scoring itself is also a mystery to some of them.

  14. #114

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    47
    Posts
    17,724
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15381
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    There is not a whole lot of evidence of this. It may depend what country you are from and which judges you have experience with, but the independence of judges is not well established. Their character and work ethic doesn't seem high at all as compared to coaches and athletes.

    Yes, I will give you this point. They are better equiped than anyone else to speak about the judging process and rules, and their eyes are trained by their experience. But again, their judgment has not proven to be exceptional. There are unsavory interpretations of the rules that many judges do not acknowledge for political reasons (to keep their jobs). In other words, their justifications for decisions are not always straightforward. The aggregate process of scoring itself is also a mystery to some of them.
    You have just highlighted how little you actually know about how the sport is run and your generalisations just make me . I would suggest get down to your local skating club and offer your services. Do some trial judging because then you might see how difficult it is.

    Most of us put in hours and hours into the sport, sitting in cold rinks and freezing our butts off whilst skaters get out there either competing or taking tests. Many judges are also involved in the administrative side of the sport so we probably spend twice as much time away from the rink doing stuff behind the scenes. Not to mention spending time to talk to skaters and parents. And it literally costs judges hundreds of dollars to be a volunteer in this sport with very little reward or financial recompense.

    And all the time we are sitting there judging we are trying to apply the rules and trying to make sure we are fair to the skaters by giving them the GOEs and marks they deserve, all within 2 minutes after each skater has competed.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  15. #115

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,270
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42880
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    She was only senior for 3 years...only a factor for two. Her medal tally in those two years was impressive though...but I wouldn't call two years a long period of time.

    I never paid attention to the pro-circuit back then. How did she fare there? Better yet, how long did she compete professionally? I know she had to have hip replacement surgery a few years after Nagano, but I can't remember if she continued to skate after that...

    Either way, I enjoy her commentary for IN and US...most of the time anyway...
    Tara was young (14 & 15 years old) and not expected to win at the 1997 US nationals, 1997 Worlds and 1998 Olympics. She faced a lot less pressure than Michelle and Irina ever did in big competitions. She never got tested under that kind of pressure where she was the overwhelming favorite, the way Kwan was in 1998, and perhaps Slutskaya in 2006 (to a lesser extent, but definitely a favorite as the reigning world champion). Even when Tara was the reigning world champion, the pressure was on Kwan, not on Tara. We will never know how Tara would have responded to that kind of pressure, but in Irina's case I have to agree that she could not handle it in 2002 Oly and 2006 Oly. She had a very good change to win the gold each time.

  16. #116
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,933
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I think many expected Tara to win the 97 Worlds after beating Kwan at not only Nationals but the Grand Prix final. Kwan and Slutskaya were both in an obvious slump, and both lost to Tara at the Grand Prix final, even though Irina had beaten her 3 times earlier that season. Chen wasnt expected to even skate at Worlds. Of all the big events she was in, that was probably the one she had the most pressure.

  17. #117
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,770
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Tara was young (14 & 15 years old) and not expected to win at the 1997 US nationals, 1997 Worlds and 1998 Olympics. She faced a lot less pressure than Michelle and Irina ever did in big competitions. She never got tested under that kind of pressure where she was the overwhelming favorite, the way Kwan was in 1998, and perhaps Slutskaya in 2006 (to a lesser extent, but definitely a favorite as the reigning world champion). Even when Tara was the reigning world champion, the pressure was on Kwan, not on Tara. We will never know how Tara would have responded to that kind of pressure, but in Irina's case I have to agree that she could not handle it in 2002 Oly and 2006 Oly. She had a very good change to win the gold each time.
    This is purely my opinion, but Tara stuck me as the type of competitor that was made of steel and would respond well to just about any type of pressure situation. She and Michelle had that in common IMO. Of course every skater will have ups and downs, but those two stood up on there jumps a lot more often than most skaters. Irina, OTOH, often got nervous in the big events, causing her to scale back her difficulty. She could have achieved more, but she had her share of victorious moments for sure.

  18. #118
    Argle-Bargle-ist
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Age
    50
    Posts
    8,493
    vCash
    875
    Rep Power
    44301
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I have to agree. From the moment Lipinski began her career as a senior skater, all the way through through to her final amateur performance, her competitive nerve was unmatched. How she was able to acheive this over such a long period is indeed a marvel.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    She [Tara] was only senior for 3 years...only a factor for two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Tara was young (14 & 15 years old) and not expected to win at the 1997 US nationals, 1997 Worlds and 1998 Olympics.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think many expected Tara to win the 97 Worlds...
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    This is purely my opinion, but Tara stuck me as the type of competitor...
    I thought my post about Tara was funny. But so many people taking me seriously is probably funnier!
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  19. #119

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Age
    55
    Posts
    12,525
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4753
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I thought my post about Tara was funny. But so many people taking me seriously is probably funnier!
    Not everyone here knows to be on the look-out for your irony Peter G. There is a baseball analogy but I don't know the correct term - sometimes they are like a cleverly low-flung ball sent in an unexpected direction.

  20. #120
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,792
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Tara was young (14 & 15 years old) and not expected to win at the 1997 US nationals, 1997 Worlds and 1998 Olympics. She faced a lot less pressure than Michelle and Irina ever did in big competitions. She never got tested under that kind of pressure where she was the overwhelming favorite, the way Kwan was in 1998, and perhaps Slutskaya in 2006 (to a lesser extent, but definitely a favorite as the reigning world champion). Even when Tara was the reigning world champion, the pressure was on Kwan, not on Tara. We will never know how Tara would have responded to that kind of pressure, but in Irina's case I have to agree that she could not handle it in 2002 Oly and 2006 Oly. She had a very good change to win the gold each time.
    In that sense, Tara was very lucky. Because she was so young and became the favorite underdog (if that makes sense) behind Michelle, she didn't have to face that amount of pressure--it was still on Michelle to win each time, but Tara was the one waiting in the wings. She was able to coast... Plus, when you're that young, stuff doesn't register...the enormity of winning a world or Olympic title is a bit lost on you because you're just so excited to be there in the first place.

    Tara was a flash in the pan skater: she showed up suddenly, won, and left just as quickly. Two years, in and done. What she accomplished was very impressive at such a young age (part of the reason she was able to accomplish it IMO) but when you talk about great skaters and competitors in terms of history, I doubt if Tara would rank among Dorothy, Peggy, Katarina, Kristi, Michelle, Irina, Yu-Na or Mao...she just wasn't around long enough to make any significant impression on the sport.

    I guess that's part of the reason why the age restrictions were put in place. I'd bet any money if Mao Asada was allowed to participate in the Torino Olympics she would have easily won gold, especially given the sub-standard level of skating that everyone turned in at that event. And she'd have easily won worlds too...She lacked the refinement she has now but she was the best jumper in the field during the 2005-2006 season, and given her two 3-3 combos and that youthful exuberance, she'd have stolen the show easily that night...

    I thought my post about Tara was funny. But so many people taking me seriously is probably funnier!
    PeterG is sarcastic...duly noted for future reference.

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •