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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    You don't have to be so defensive. My point was that Leonova got lower performance/execution and components than Kostner. It's worth considering that some people, perhaps the judges, did not find Leonova exciting or enjoyable.
    IMO Leonova was much more exciting to watch than Kostner at Moscow Worlds. It was probably the programs. Kostner's were much more subtle whereas Leonova's were very catchy.

    Kostner deservedly had higher PCS due to her fulfilling other PCS criteria.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    You don't have to be so defensive. My point was that Leonova got lower performance/execution and components than Kostner. It's worth considering that some people, perhaps the judges, did not find Leonova exciting or enjoyable.
    Why is it "worth considering"? If everyone had the same opinion of Leonova's skating, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Incidentally, Aussie Willy is also a judge.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  3. #83
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    Well my opinion is Leonova had to be really awful in terms of presentation and artistic merit to lose to Kostner! To me this doesn't even need spelled out.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Alena's style irks me the same way Irina's style irked me. There's very little musicality in the movement, but there is an energy and happiness there that's refreshing. I can admit that Alena, by far, had the most enjoyable skate at worlds this year. Her energy and exuberance brought the house down...plus she was the only one who actually looked like they were having any fun.

    Still, I can't stand her skating, especially when the judges gift her with absurdly high PCS, which she often gets. I'm glad she had such a good showing at worlds because the field will be ridiculously tough next season with many of the Russian babies being eligible for senior worlds...
    Alena was not gifted with her PCS. She was in the 7s and 8s for them and I think they are pretty justified. I probably would have her top in the PE/EX mark because that performance had so much energy and she really did everything she was meant to. She didn't draw you in, she threw it out in the audience. And I felt she had one of the most interpretive programs out there because it wasn't just getting out and skating, she was creating character and you were left in no doubt about her intentions. And I really appreciate a skater who has put that much work into that side of the program too because it definately wasn't ignored. The fact that we are talking about how exciting her performance was and that we enjoyed it I think actually validates that.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Well my opinion is Leonova had to be really awful in terms of presentation and artistic merit to lose to Kostner! To me this doesn't even need spelled out.
    This is Kostner's third world medal and she's definitely one of the top ladies. Finishing fourth behind her is not shabby and finish fourth overall is something for Leona to be proud off. Alyssa was fifth, and Alyssa is certainly not awful in terms of presentation and artistic merit.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Well my opinion is Leonova had to be really awful in terms of presentation and artistic merit to lose to Kostner! To me this doesn't even need spelled out.
    Agreed. Finally someone with some sense.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Why is it "worth considering"? If everyone had the same opinion of Leonova's skating, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Incidentally, Aussie Willy is also a judge.
    Oh yes, because judges are renowned for having good taste...

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Oh for pete sake! You criticise her for not winning worlds titles when she was competing against who you consider a skating god. And as for competitive nerve, that is just crap. She was one of the most gutsy skaters out there and everytime she went out there she gave it her all.

    Stop putting skaters on pedestals and then shoot them down. They all go out there to do their best and the shit you hang on them is really just unacceptable. And there is such a lack of consistency in your arguments.

    Why don't you start a thread about how badly Irina was robbed by Michelle then.
    Oh please don't feed the trolls! Or encourage them

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Oh yes, because judges are renowned for having good taste...
    And you are qualified to be the expert on the question of taste because ....

    Taste is an individual thing. You can either like something or not. However sometimes you have go against you likes and dislikes and look at whether is something done well and the skater does what is being asked of them.

    Regardless of whether you like Leonova's program or not, the fact is she did have a really high performance level and she also used her music to create a theme and character. Taste actually doesn't come in it.

    Gee I really hate Mariah Carey who is not to my taste. But if a skater does a great program to her music, then I will give them credit for it.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    And you are qualified to be the expert on the question of taste because ....

    Taste is an individual thing. You can either like something or not. However sometimes you have go against you likes and dislikes and look at whether is something done well and the skater does what is being asked of them.

    Regardless of whether you like Leonova's program or not, the fact is she did have a really high performance level and she also used her music to create a theme and character. Taste actually doesn't come in it.

    Gee I really hate Mariah Carey who is not to my taste. But if a skater does a great program to her music, then I will give them credit for it.

    HAHA. I never said i was more qualified in matters of taste than yourself, i just found it amusing that someone used the fact that someone being a judge made them qualified to have a decent opinion about a program when the worst thing about skating is the judging. I prefer skaters with pretty/balletic positions and flow, not leaping around like mad circus freaks... each to their own though....

    I am a qualified stylist though. Her costume was hideous.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Well my opinion is Leonova had to be really awful in terms of presentation and artistic merit to lose to Kostner! To me this doesn't even need spelled out.
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Agreed. Finally someone with some sense.

    Carolina Kostner is not mediocre in term of presentation and artistic. She is probably the best in the World actually, and her glide is among the best. Her jumps are amazing, even without the 3Lutz.
    For sure, Leonova is not my cup of tea, but comparing her to Carolina Kostner to say she is awful is weird.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post

    Carolina Kostner is not mediocre in term of presentation and artistic. She is probably the best in the World actually, and her glide is among the best. Her jumps are amazing, even without the 3Lutz.
    For sure, Leonova is not my cup of tea, but comparing her to Carolina Kostner to say she is awful is weird.
    Okay, I agree she is far better than Leonova, and I think this year's Debussy program is hands down her best ever, but...best in the world? One of the things that's always bugged me about Kostner is that she doesn't seem to have good rhythm...I was looking for a youtube video to illustrate and I found so many examples that I figured there was no point! I think that's why the Prelude a l'apres midi d'une faune worked for her. The slow, mushy hemiolas allowed her to reflect the musical character without having to rely on strong pulses. I've never been a fan, but that program was a beauty and she definitely deserved her bronze above Leonova, who has good energy, but still struggles to control her body movements IMO.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    HAHA. I never said i was more qualified in matters of taste than yourself, i just found it amusing that someone used the fact that someone being a judge made them qualified to have a decent opinion about a program when the worst thing about skating is the judging. I prefer skaters with pretty/balletic positions and flow, not leaping around like mad circus freaks... each to their own though....

    I am a qualified stylist though. Her costume was hideous.
    Well skating is a judged sport and that is a fact. However it is not about having a decent opinion. It is about being able to justify how you come to your decisions and explain them which judges have to do all the time. But if you didn't have the judges you wouldn't have a sport to bitch about. So you should be thankful that they are there.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Well skating is a judged sport and that is a fact. However it is not about having a decent opinion. It is about being able to justify how you come to your decisions and explain them which judges have to do all the time. But if you didn't have the judges you wouldn't have a sport to bitch about. So you should be thankful that they are there.
    Yeah.... thanks man....

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Okay, I agree she is far better than Leonova, and I think this year's Debussy program is hands down her best ever, but...best in the world? One of the things that's always bugged me about Kostner is that she doesn't seem to have good rhythm...I was looking for a youtube video to illustrate and I found so many examples that I figured there was no point! I think that's why the Prelude a l'apres midi d'une faune worked for her. The slow, mushy hemiolas allowed her to reflect the musical character without having to rely on strong pulses. I've never been a fan, but that program was a beauty and she definitely deserved her bronze above Leonova, who has good energy, but still struggles to control her body movements IMO.
    Okay, I love Carolina's skating. Her lines, long legs, long arms, the curves into and out of the jumps, the way she uses her whole body as a creeper, it's unbelievable. Her edges and speed are to die for, so is her step sequence in her LP this season. I see what you mean about rhythm, but her SP this season is equally as beautiful as her LP, so, it's not just the slow music, she improved a lot this season.
    That's why, IMO, there's no comparison between Carolina and Alena.
    Alena is all the contrary : she is so dynamic. lol

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Okay, I love Carolina's skating. Her lines, long legs, long arms, the curves into and out of the jumps, the way she uses her whole body as a creeper, it's unbelievable. Her edges and speed are to die for, so is her step sequence in her LP this season. I see what you mean about rhythm, but her SP this season is equally as beautiful as her LP, so, it's not just the slow music, she improved a lot this season.
    That's why, IMO, there's no comparison between Carolina and Alena.
    Alena is all the contrary : she is so dynamic. lol
    Am I missing something?

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Okay, I love Carolina's skating. Her lines, long legs, long arms, the curves into and out of the jumps, the way she uses her whole body as a creeper, it's unbelievable.
    Can I learn how to use my whole body as a creeper?

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Can I learn how to use my whole body as a creeper?
    No need, your posts do that for you.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Well skating is a judged sport and that is a fact. However it is not about having a decent opinion...
    True. Judges in Moscow would have given Czisny higher PCS if they had decent opinions.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Am I missing something?
    Sorry, english is not my first language, but that's what I wanted to say.
    I don't know how to say it better, she moves from the feet to the hands. She undulates without any effort, that's unbelievable.

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