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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Interesting. IIRC, the last time you mentioned this, it was attributed to female execs--not political progressives. See below:
    and the two are mutually exclusive? Save your attempts to play "gotcha".
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    There is a limited range of clothing that is truly gender neutral (i.e. flannel pajamas and blue jeans). So one way or another, women constantly have to negotiate the issue of sexual objectification.
    There are plenty of female clothing options that are neither masculine/gender neutral nor overly sexualized.

    Even if the clothes themselves are neutral -- say khaki slacks and t-shirt -- the shape of the wearer's body will usually make the sex of the wearer apparent. If the clothes are cut to fit, the shape of the body will be clearer. Of course, different individuals have different body shapes that may exaggerate or minimize typical sex characteristics.


    If women should wear miniskirts and plunging necklines, does equality dictate that men should wear codpieces?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post

    If women should wear miniskirts and plunging necklines, does equality dictate that men should wear codpieces?
    Neither miniskirts nor low necklines emphasize genitals. I think a more suitable analogy would be tight pants or shorts for men. Chaps?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  4. #204

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    Fair enough.

    There are some professions in which that kind of clothing is appropriate or even typical, even some in which sexual objectification of the male body is the main point.

    But business executive is not one of them.

    Of course I did once observe Scott Hamilton taking a business meeting dressed in tights and t-shirt.

    On site at a pro competition right after practice.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Neither miniskirts nor low necklines emphasize genitals. I think a more suitable analogy would be tight pants or shorts for men. Chaps?
    Low necklines emphasize breasts and miniskirts emphasize butts while allowing peeks at the crotch or at least reminding others that the crotch is within visual reach.

    So I'll go with the cod piece as a fair analogy. A thong-type bottom would also do nicely.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Low necklines emphasize breasts and miniskirts emphasize butts while allowing peeks at the crotch or at least reminding others that the crotch is within visual reach.

    So I'll go with the cod piece as a fair analogy. A thong-type bottom would also do nicely.
    Breasts are not genitals, neither are buttocks. I thought that miniskirts were all about displaying the legs, not crotch.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  7. #207

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    Unless you're Sharon Stone. (Ok, she wore a dress but the skirt was short ).
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Unless you're Sharon Stone. (Ok, she wore a dress but the skirt was short ).
    A mini dress. Love wearing those on Saturday nights, without the crotch flash, though.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    This. A woman needs to dress like a man to be taken as seriously as a man. This isn't gender neutrality as it conforms to a male standard.

    There is a limited range of clothing that is truly gender neutral (i.e. flannel pajamas and blue jeans). So one way or another, women constantly have to negotiate the issue of sexual objectification.
    This is simply not true. Business dress allows women to wear skirts, dresses or pants, however a jacket is required in all cases. I know of few secretaries who wear pencil skirts. It's the lawyers who wear skirts, especially if they're going to Court, where a black skirt is required (along with black barrister's robes).

    My former boss, a senior partner in one of the big Bay Street firms, told me that when she was first called to the Bar, she made her own suits because there was little available for business women at that time. Today, there is a wide range of feminine suits available either with pants or skirts. You can even buy stylish and attractive jackets on their own. And my former boss no longer makes her own suits.

    It is also possible to dress stylishly without "gender objectification" becoming an issue, and without looking like a dowdy grandmother either. The media may make it appear to be an either/or situation but that's far from true.

  10. #210
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    Lawyers in Canada have to wear robes to court but not in the US. We had ourselves here in SF a very tiffed ADA once also former SF First Lady Kim Guilefoyle. She won the infamous dog mauling case. She now has a job on TV.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Anyhow, I was a bit surprised since their experiences in school today are a far cry from what I remember.
    Well, when I was in Jr. High, we weren't allowed to wear pants to school. During the winter when it was very cold, we could wear them to school but had to take them off once we got there. It was considered very revolutionary when, during my last year in the school district, they changed the rule to allow women to wear pants.

    But my kids' experience is a lot like yours. My son wears pink a lot including a fedora with pink pin stripes that he wears any time he has to wear a suit. He's quite proud of that hat and, if anyone gives him a hard time, he tells them pink is a very manly color. My daughter asked for permission to go on a date with a girl a few months ago as well. (I told her that our dating rules hadn't changed -- no solo dates until she's 16 -- no matter what gender her date was. )

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Breasts are not genitals, neither are buttocks. I thought that miniskirts were all about displaying the legs, not crotch.
    Breasts and buttocks have been sexualized in our culture. Definitely showing cleavage is considered dressing in a sexy manner. So is wearing a short skirt that barely covers the buttocks and/or crotch.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  12. #212
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    On the cover of our local newspaper, there is a story entitled "Students given Cinderella-style grad". The accompanying picture shows four young women in their grad dresses in front of a horse-drawn carriage which is a large white metal-framed, pumpkin-shaped carriage.

    I find it interesting that in 2011, we still have females who want to be "princesses" whereas I never see anything similar about males wanting to be "princes".
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  13. #213

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    And the women wonder why they never found their Prince Charming...lol
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Breasts and buttocks have been sexualized in our culture. Definitely showing cleavage is considered dressing in a sexy manner. So is wearing a short skirt that barely covers the buttocks and/or crotch.
    This, exactly. I think many women are so used to dressing a certain way, and many of us enjoy it, that we don't think of where it originated. I don't wear high-cut tops often-- they look horrible on me. Same for long skirts (if I wear a skirt). I wear what I like, and what looks good. However, I can't pretend it has nothing to do with sexism, or isn't based on what men like to see. A lot of "sexy" styles for women are, even if it's a style that many women like.

    I'm not sure what should be done about it, though.

  15. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I find it interesting that in 2011, we still have females who want to be "princesses" whereas I never see anything similar about males wanting to be "princes".
    Do you remember this?

    During the summer of 2001, he proposed to her during a specially planned evening with a Cinderella theme, including a scroll inviting her to the "royal ball" and a gift of a crystal glass slipper. This engagement theme provided motivation for his free skate this year, which is skated to music from the ballet "Cinderella."
    Exception that proves the rule?

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I find it interesting that in 2011, we still have females who want to be "princesses" whereas I never see anything similar about males wanting to be "princes".
    But then who is going to ride away in the pumpkin carriage (or the stretch limo) with the princesses?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But then who is going to ride away in the pumpkin carriage (or the stretch limo) with the princesses?
    Her 57 cats.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post

    Breasts and buttocks have been sexualized in our culture. Definitely showing cleavage is considered dressing in a sexy manner. So is wearing a short skirt that barely covers the buttocks and/or crotch.
    I know. I was being technical.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But then who is going to ride away in the pumpkin carriage (or the stretch limo) with the princesses?
    The mice/coachmen, of course!

    My daughter already has plans to change her name to Cinderella once she is old enough.
    Creating drama!

  20. #220
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    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

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