Was it Michelle or Lori

[taf2002]

Thank you. Watching this video it is no wonder that Michelle is known as the "Kween". Loved it!

The mood that Michelle creates in this video is completely different from that created in person. When you see it in person Dick & Peggy aren't killing the mood with their incessant babble. OTOH Terry Gannon doesn't say a word until it's over. I absolutely hate the disruptive (& unnecessary) commentary in this video.

[Coco]

"alleged injury"???

I'm talking about from '99-2002. We've never heard when the hip issue began, so maybe it wasn't a factor in the summer of '99. I don't know.

Obviously she was hurt 2004-on, imo.

[arakwafan2006]

i think part of the reason lori and michelle parted ways is because lori's choreography for michelle had become stale, had lost a lot of its old magic. lori's inspiration went _elsewhere_. which came first, the egg or the chicken--michelle's leaving, or lori's sending the message, i'm burning the midnight oil for somebody else?

long before michelle started skating to war horses, some of michelle's programs by philip mills and sara kawahara moved me far more than some of lori's lesser creations. not all lori's creations were uniformly great. of course dante's prayers and the red violin (exhibition version) and the programs you mentioned were among lori's most successful--i would say that lori is the choreographer with whom michelle achieved the greatest heights.

lori did indeed create nocturne for mao, and lori created liebestraum last season. forgive me, perhaps i misconstrued your words, but were you in fact hypothesizing that if mao had lori in the 'formative' years, mao would have been... more michelle-ish, more masterful in interpreting choreography and music at an early age?

i also see great untapped potential in mao's skating. i wonder if you, perhaps, think that it is already 'too late' for mao--because lori wasn't able to contribute as much to mao's training when mao was younger? i would like to think that it is not too late, because i like mao's skating very much, and this season we've had reason to celebrate several late bloomers, including the current ladies world champion and US champion. also, lori is not the only choreographer capable of bringing out great interpretation--i was deeply impressed with dickson's work for yukina ota--especially picasso dance (03-04 season, IIRC). did dickson contribute as much to yukina's awesome skill in musical interpretation? i don't know--i'm asking you and the other learned people--IMO you could as easily say that it was yukina who had the unique spunk and sass, an ear for how to synchronize her movements with the musical highlights, and with any other skilled choreographer she would have flourished.


anyway, back to lori and michelle. i'm thankful for those really good years--i now have a lot of skating i can watch and re-watch


P.S. intricacy isn't essential to my enjoyment of a program--what's critical is the choreography's suitability for the music--i love dante's prayer, rachmaninov 98, red violin, but i also love programs like dorothy hamill's pia jesu and paquita, programs which emphasize flow and grandeur rather than complicated fuss, because there is not much in the music to be accented with intricate choreography. grand and epic war horses, i enjoy also

One Huge difference as well is that Lori does a program for a skater and might not see them until before worlds. With Michelle and Lori, they spent LOTS of time together. That makes an immense difference. Its just like how Patrick Chan spends LOADS of time with Lori and his programs are masterpieces. Polishing of any work of art does not happen during the learning phase of choreography. It happens only once the program is a part of a skater. Having the original artist there to shape the way you learn the movement is essential. He/she can also help you create a mood while teaching you the movement.

The skaters who utelize Lori regularly are the ones most impacted. I get that most skaters have coaches that they use at home but that could be when it becomes less of an outflow of the majic Lori and that skater had and more about the home staff helping to recreate their interpretation of Lori's dream.

Clear as mud? Hope not...lol

[skfan]

One Huge difference as well is that Lori does a program for a skater and might not see them until before worlds. With Michelle and Lori, they spent LOTS of time together. That makes an immense difference. Its just like how Patrick Chan spends LOADS of time with Lori and his programs are masterpieces. Polishing of any work of art does not happen during the learning phase of choreography. It happens only once the program is a part of a skater. Having the original artist there to shape the way you learn the movement is essential. He/she can also help you create a mood while teaching you the movement.

The skaters who utelize Lori regularly are the ones most impacted. I get that most skaters have coaches that they use at home but that could be when it becomes less of an outflow of the majic Lori and that skater had and more about the home staff helping to recreate their interpretation of Lori's dream.

Clear as mud? Hope not...lol

you make an excellent point that having the choreographer on hand, or accessible, to work and re-work the program can help perfect it, if on the first try it didn't turn out as expected. in fact this was one of the problems with scheherazade, IIRC, kawahara gave it to MK as is and wasn't available to help MK tweak it as the season goes, since kawahara had her hands full choreographing the ceremonies of the salt lake olympics.

but lori and MK didn't always work as closely together as during the salome season and ariane and red violin (exhibition) were still glorious. mk didn't work so closely with philip mills, and kissing you and hands still were impactful, wonderful programs. so in the end i still think it was more michelle than lori.

the last lori program that i consider a work of near genius level is mao's nocturne. even so i don't think it was on the level of her work with sale and pelletier in the years leading up to salt lake city olympics.

[Triple Butz]

Off-topic: Someone finally put up a video of Michelle's One More Time exhibition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FehcN5tiuo

The youtube police took off the previous video.

This was always a personal favorite of mine...I especially like it because if you watch closely, you can see Michelle singing along from time to time. She occasionally did that in FOG, too.

[OliviaPug]

This was always a personal favorite of mine...I especially like it because if you watch closely, you can see Michelle singing along from time to time. She occasionally did that in FOG, too.

That is part of Michelle's magic. She has such mastery of the blade, you rarely see her thinking through a program. That, I believe, is one of the reasons why Michelle had an amazing ability to create a mood, no matter the program (competitive or otherwise).

Also, speaking of mastery of blade ... that is something Patrick Chan and Michelle Kwan have in common. Kudos to both of them. Their choreographers have been fortunate to work with skaters who are capable of executing.

O-

[skatesindreams]

^^^
This!

[kwanatic]

I love love love that exhibition. Michelle was a master at creating a mood and taking people away. It's very rare nowadays for me to watch an exhibition that leaves me spellbound. There have been two since Michelle stopped skating: Caroline Zhang's Lullaby for a Night and recently, Mao's Ballade No. 1.

I used to love watching exhibitions but they just don't compare anymore. Mao excluded, skaters don't seem to put much energy or thought into them. Michelle OTOH had some breathtaking numbers throughout the years, particularly 1997-2002. Winter (not the newer Winter Song, but Winter by Tori Amos) was absolutely amazing, and she helped to choreograph that number herself. Dante's Prayer so haunting and beautiful...East of Eden, Kissing You, One More Time, Fields of Gold...the list is soooo long.

There were others that people kinda forgot about I think. Like This Time Around...this was a jaw-dropping, give you chills kind of program. I can never find it on YT, but it's an amazing program. I remember one performance, at the end there's this big crescendo and an amazing note at the end (if you've never heard Linda Eder sing, you're missing out; her voice is RIDICULOUS!) and at that note, Michelle hits her trademark spiral. You can hear the announcer (it was either Peter Carruthers or Terry Gannon) let out this very soft, awe-filled "Wow..". It makes me laugh every time!

Another exhibition I really loved was Michelle's Pocahontas program. Again, Lori at her best. It's such a great edit of the music and every nuance of the music is choreographed. I love the ending too; Michelle stops on a dime! (ETA: Watching this program again, I just don't understand the criticism I sometimes hear people saying about Michelle being slow. She always appeared to have good speed to me and she's flying in this program!)

So many amazing programs and moments...what a gift she was.

[taf2002]

Don't forget Reflections. She didn't skate it on TV much so people tend to leave it off their lists.

[SamChez]

...This Time Around...this was a jaw-dropping, give you chills kind of program. I can never find it on YT...

I gotta see it too, so I searched the world over...
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/bidiXY6--3c/
Icky quality video, skating quality unmatched!!! Answers the OP question: It was MICHELLE!!

[Coco]

I gotta see it too, so I searched the world over...
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/bidiXY6--3c/
Icky quality video, skating quality unmatched!!! Answers the OP question: It was MICHELLE!!

OH - thank you!!! I've been looking for this!

[kathy sullivan]

I think that is the one video of MK I've never seen before. What an amazing performer and what an amazing performance. Geez I miss her.

[Extranjera]

Lori is an amazing choreographer but she worked with many other skaters and none of them could create the mood that Michelle did (at least not in competitive programs). There is surely something special about her.

Anyway, even if somewhere there is another MK we probably won't recognize her because of CoP. This system makes creating programs like Michelle's ones almost impossible.

[TheIronLady]

Anyway, even if somewhere there is another MK we probably won't recognize her because of CoP. This system makes creating programs like Michelle's ones almost impossible.

This is a brilliant observation.

[kittyjake5]

I gotta see it too, so I searched the world over...
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/bidiXY6--3c/
Icky quality video, skating quality unmatched!!! Answers the OP question: It was MICHELLE!!

Thank you Sammy!

[kwanatic]

I gotta see it too, so I searched the world over...
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/bidiXY6--3c/
Icky quality video, skating quality unmatched!!! Answers the OP question: It was MICHELLE!!

Sam, you always rock my world!!

I downloaded this from CruelladeKwan's site several years ago and I'm not sure if it'll still play on my computer. I just LOVE this program. Whoo! That was gorgeous...gives me chills every time!

Taf2002, I almost forgot about Reflections too! My favorite performance was at the 1998 Goodwill Games. The crowd went crazy the entire time and that dress was so gorgeous!

[lilia&mofan]

Michelle's Reflections:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX7fdYOUono


Michelle's Fields of Gold:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1j...lds-of-g_music


MIchelle's On My Own:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysu4x5-xU_k

[giselle23]

Anyway, even if somewhere there is another MK we probably won't recognize her because of CoP. This system makes creating programs like Michelle's ones almost impossible.

So true. COP stifles creativity and rewards things that are not beautiful or integral to the program, like crazy spins and bendy positions, catchfoot spirals, and busy footwork. If COP had been in effect over the history of figure skating, we never would have had a Janet Lynn, a Dorothy Hamill, a Peggy Fleming or a Michelle Kwan--or at least not like we had them in their prime.
I wish skating could be more about skating and less about tricks.

[Fozzie Bear]

Another aspect that's really amazing about those exhibitions was how clean she was. That's rare nowadays. Every program skated with at least a lutz, a toe, and an axel. With beautiful moves in the fields. I'd have to strain to remember a good, clean exhibition performance from anyone the last few seasons.

[skfan]

Another aspect that's really amazing about those exhibitions was how clean she was. That's rare nowadays. Every program skated with at least a lutz, a toe, and an axel. With beautiful moves in the fields. I'd have to strain to remember a good, clean exhibition performance from anyone the last few seasons.

for some seasons i actually prefer MK's exhibitions to her long programs because with only 3 or 4 jumps it leaves more time for moves in the field and other choreographic highlights. and usually with MK exhibitions there's good music and interesting choreography--not every exhibition struck a chord with me but many did.

and many were clean or very nearly clean (with just slightly wonky jumps