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  1. #61
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    You know what's really weird? Everyone comments on the "different and unusual" music choice that is Miraculous Mandarin, but to me the music is way more audience friendly and relatable than Red Violin, but is more appreciated and was more successful

  2. #62
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    Oooh, I always wondered, was Kwan the first lady to land both 3lz and 3flip in a ladies SP?

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    Who choreographed this program?
    I think it was Sarah Kawahara.

    ETA: But now that I think of it a little more, I'm not so sure...Sarah did Fields of Gold in '02. I might be mixing it up with this.
    Last edited by giselle23; 05-18-2011 at 08:09 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I came across this video quite randomly today while I was bored. I have never given Michelle Kwan's Dream of Desdemona program very much thought. I liked it but it certainly doesn't stand out when I think of her amazing short program the way Rach, Romanza, The Feeling Begins, etc do for me. I was shocked when I watched this performance of Dream of Desdemona. I can't remember a short program from her or ANYONE else in the modern era who used every note of music so flawlessly. Nothing goes unused in this program. Every single move has a point and a place and that is SO HARD. CoP can never reward this kind of skating fairly and that is so sad. It would just get glossed over in the PCS mark which the judges do not know how to accurately score. Watch for yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEklWrSU8VQ
    What a cool final pose. Love Kwan

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    Oooh, I always wondered, was Kwan the first lady to land both 3lz and 3flip in a ladies SP?
    That might possibly be true. I wonder if anyone can verify this.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  6. #66

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    I never appreciated Kwan as much as I should've when she was still skating.

    She just has this undeniable something when she's out there that I don't think any current lady really has. I really noticed it during the airing of that Yu-Na skating show a few months back. She was out there with Yu-Na and I couldn't keep my eyes off of Michelle. And Kim is one of my fave ladies currently.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    That might possibly be true. I wonder if anyone can verify this.
    Surya Bonaly landed a 3F at the end of her 1995 Euros SP, but it was underrotated. I don't know who attempted what during the autumn of 1994.

  8. #68
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    wow. this discussion has given me new appreciation for Dream of Desdemona. back in 96-97 i was way more dazzled by taj mahal than dream of desdemona.

    and yeah, i'm one of the many unwashed who thinks rachmaninov 98 was better to watch, too. it gave me less agita. that seems to do it

    still, you have opened my eyes. i have new appreciation for the gem i'd passed over.

    now, if i may be so presumptuous as to beg a favor... can anyone who actually owns the CD's containing bits of her music confirm the music listing, or even better, link me to the CD you own on the amazon database of something like that? i'll buy it. i really love that music.

    thanks in advance

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    I love this performance by Michelle at age 14. A star was born.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHsorCH-690
    Ahhhh, yes ... only 14 and skating like she could set the world afire. She was not a typical 14-year-old. Judges were in a pickle apparently and placed her fifth. I will admit that back then, I just thought she was cute and a very good jumper (Frank certainly knew he had a gem) ... I didn't really see her budding artistry and great technique, nor how amazing she was until another year had passed and thoughtful music choice, wonderful collaborative choreography between MK and Lori, bold makeup, intricate hairstyle, and gorgeous costume transformed her, or should I say revealed her to be a unique champion ... and the remarkable journey began.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmUW8wPB0s


    BTW, didn't the Song for You performance, where Kwan had to compose herself after the McKay tribute, take place at a Marshall's event (not Torino)?

    Here's the Kissing You performance that a previous poster likes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmUW8wPB0s


    Also, I fondly remember this lovely tv special performance -- three Queens of skating, but only one Kween Love the Kween's gorgeous swept up hairstyle here. Would have been fun to see her wear it like that in competition, but it might have been difficult to keep it in place with a 7-jump program. Note at the end of this clip, Michelle's prophetic words:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JkZImXf-y8 A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes


    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
    Its loveliness increases; it will never
    Pass into nothingness;

    ~ John Keats
    Thank you for this from Keats -- so true re Kwan, beauty inside and out.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    I think it was Sarah Karahawa.

    ETA: But now that I think of it a little more, I'm not so sure...Sarah did Fields of Gold in '02. I might be mixing it up with this.
    Checked Heather Winfield MK website and Sarah is listed as the choreographer for both programs (Song for You and Fields of Gold).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    Yeah, but I can't think of any skater who could make the judges happy all the time. This is a sport of no limits, and everyone has an aspect of his/her performances that can be worked on and improved. and when you have legends, you're bound to always find nit-pickers

    Plus, having nothing to criticize can make skaters boring
    Not sure about the last part, as no one, especially no skater is perfect. And some are just plain boring with plenty to criticize.

    Yes, nit-pickers abound, especially with Kwan as even if she wasn't nearly perfect, her consistency and courage and the way she touches audiences is so inspirational and uplifting, it has transcended skating. And when someone is consistently that amazing with grace and character to match, it kind of makes a situation where the smallest flaw must be pointed out. Too good to be true, in other words. LOL, Kwan would be the first to point out her flaws anyway -- she has always been modest to a fault. She had/ has an indefinable magic that brings people together and inspires fans who have not only formed lasting friendships, but who have also tried to learn something from the example she's set on and off the ice.

    Many people became fans of skating because of MK, and many people without even a strong interest in figure skating have been inspired by her example to overcome obstacles and achieve their own personal goals. Is MK even human? Very much so, of course, and that's why she's so remarkable for what she's achieved despite all of her minor flaws, one being the not so great leg position in her layback spin, but one season she even achieved an aesthetically pleasing leg position!!! I was proud of her. I wonder why it is so hard to achieve for many ladies.


    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    You know what's really weird? Everyone comments on the "different and unusual" music choice that is Miraculous Mandarin, but to me the music is way more audience friendly and relatable than Red Violin, but is more appreciated and was more successful
    Really? I have to listen to both again. Maybe both pieces are different and unusual. I think Red Violin is a more recent composition, that was accompanied by a movie of the same name. Therefore, maybe the story that inspired the music is more familiar to some people than The Miraculous Mandarin was to audiences of its time and to most members of the 2000-2001 skating audience too. Since The Red Violin is contemporary, perhaps the music is more relatable in that sense. Or, maybe there is something more compelling about the sound quality of the instrument (violin), and isn't there more dissonance in the sounds of MM? Both compositions for me are a bit different for skating. Certainly, The Miraculous Mandarin was a departure from the kind of music fans were accustomed to hearing Kwan skate to -- which should have been cause for celebration, or at least patience with her attempt to try something out of the ordinary.

    ETA: I listened to both pieces again. Actually there is dissonance/ discordance in both, alternating with more conventional sounds of the instruments (I detected violins and a passage with a horn in MM, probably some other instruments -- The Red Violin is mainly or only a violin, if I'm not mistaken). In any case, there seems to be more dissonance in MM, that is very ominous sounding. Although there is conflict and chaotic sounds in The Red Violin, the alternating haunting melody almost has a sad romantic quality that tends to carry more resolution than any of the sounds in MM. The story of The Red Violin movie is of a mysterious violin played over centuries and the "anger, love, betrayal, and sacrifice" experienced by its owners. The story of MM involves more conflict, betrayal and violence per what I've read. Anyway, the choreo to The Red Violin is in keeping with what audiences are used to seeing from Kwan, so maybe that's another reason why the music and the program were received better than MM. The Red Violin started as an exhibition, and was later reworked as a lp, so that probably added to its popularity with Kwan fans.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 05-18-2011 at 04:51 PM.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    now, if i may be so presumptuous as to beg a favor... can anyone who actually owns the CD's containing bits of her music confirm the music listing, or even better, link me to the CD you own on the amazon database of something like that? i'll buy it. i really love that music.

    thanks in advance
    Heather W's site has been mentioned here a couple of times already. It really is a treasure trove of Michelle Kwan information.

    Here is a link to many of Kwan' programs. If you click on the name of the program it will take you to a page that lists all sorts of info, like events skated in, choreographer, name of music, where to buy, etc. etc.

    DoD program information

    I recommend you browse Heather's site, it's a great source of info for us serious skating fans.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Heather W's site has been mentioned here a couple of times already. It really is a treasure trove of Michelle Kwan information.

    Here is a link to many of Kwan' programs. If you click on the name of the program it will take you to a page that lists all sorts of info, like events skated in, choreographer, name of music, where to buy, etc. etc.

    DoD program information

    I recommend you browse Heather's site, it's a great source of info for us serious skating fans.


    thank you for pointing out this awesome resource. i've bookmarked it

    regarding dream of desdemona specifically, i think there was at some point a comment that perhaps the red poppy adagio wasn't actually featured in the program, even though it's listed on heather's page. and what little herodiade i could find on youtube (mostly the operatic stuff--not the orchestral part MK used) didn't convince me i was on the right track. i am not a very savvy person when it comes to classical music so i figured before i make yet another buying mistake, i'd consult some folks with actual experience, but it's all good. learning about music is fun.

    i really thank MK for broadening my perspective on music that's usable for skating--she's introduced me to pieces i just like to listen to on their own, even without any skating. well, she and frank and lori... back when they were the maverick team

    ETA regarding that jim mackay tribute someone mentioned earlier, i seem to recall that was 2006 marshall's.
    Last edited by skfan; 05-18-2011 at 10:24 PM.

  14. #74

  15. #75
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    If you ever go to a skating competition and run into Peter Oppegard, be sure to mention Miraculous Mandarin to him so you can watch his reaction. You'll see that he is genuinely surprised and thrilled that people remember the progam and loved it so much, ...and that it still pops up on skating forums from time to time.

    He regrets three things about its one and only performance; Michelle had to learn the program in a very short time before performing it in competition, she had to leave out some of the finer moves in the program, and the progam was performed only once and it wasn't a clean performance by Michelle.

    I loved that program because it captured the essence of Michelle, her passion and her sensuality.

    I'm loving this thread. Thanks people.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post

    thank you so much!

    i went back to heather's page--somehow i managed to miss the 'buy the music' links at the end the last time i checked there *slaps forehead*

    thank you once again

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by belladella View Post
    If you ever go to a skating competition and run into Peter Oppegard, be sure to mention Miraculous Mandarin to him so you can watch his reaction. You'll see that he is genuinely surprised and thrilled that people remember the progam and loved it so much, ...and that it still pops up on skating forums from time to time.

    He regrets three things about its one and only performance; Michelle had to learn the program in a very short time before performing it in competition, she had to leave out some of the finer moves in the program, and the progam was performed only once and it wasn't a clean performance by Michelle.

    I loved that program because it captured the essence of Michelle, her passion and her sensuality.

    I'm loving this thread. Thanks people.
    Thanks. I remember watching MM. MK looked tired, but the performance and choreography were breathtaking, nonetheless.

  18. #78

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    Great discussion.
    One thing that that these clips bring back - the drama of these performances, not just because of the fascinating performances, but because there was a real "opening night" quality to them. Most of us were not familiar with the music, as Kwan, coach and choreographer were making a point of using pieces that skaters hadn't used before.

    There was a real sense of being there at the Broadway opening - not knowing where the performance might take you, where the highlights would be.

    I enjoy it when a skater or team takes a risk and claims a piece of music this way.

  19. #79
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    ^^ ITA viennese, thanks for your reflections.

    And thanks BellaDella for sharing that information about Peter O, and his thoughts about MM and his appreciation of fans' interest in his choreography for MM. It will be something to keep in mind should I ever be fortunate enough to see Peter in person again someday ... I would also like to ask him whether he'd ever consider bringing back MM for Caroline Z or Yu Na?

  20. #80

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    Here is Beautiful World from the 2000 Keri Lotion Classic. Lovely. Michelle skates with such freedom.

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