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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Nice to see this thread... I'm loving the links on youtube too and just watched Pocahontas from the Ultimate 4. while a very youthful exhibition, there's no denying how wonderful she is in that program. The emotion is just oozing out all over the ice. Wonderful stuff.

    ETA: Does anyone know what US cheesefest she also performed Pocahontas post 1997 Worlds and skated an absolute blinder bringing the house down? I've seen it before but can't find it.
    Not sure floskate. I recall that MK performed Pocahontas on tour with COI, and that MK and Nicole were at a cheesefest one year where MK performed Pocahontas, but I don't recall the name of the event. Wonder why its sometimes difficult to find stuff on youtube that probably is still there.

  2. #22
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    Beautiful program. IMO, this is the first program of the sophisticated Michelle.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzag View Post
    I agree! She never really skated this one to its full potential but I've always been obsessed with the choreography and the way she pieced together a sort of random assortment of music (um, hello, Red Poppy?) into a brilliantly cohesive program filled with incredible dramatic tension. The build to the climax is really just incredible and coupled with Taj confirms my belief that 1997 was one of Michelle's strongest years choreographically speaking.
    ITA, zigzag! About the music used for DoD, where is it from exactly -- you mention a compilation from random sources. Do you know more about this?

    Also, thanks for your post, TripleButz -- ITA No matter how some choreographers are overcoming the challenges presented by CoP, there is something missing, or OTOH, there is too much crammed into programs with no time for the skater to breathe or to fully make a connection with the audience. At this point, I don't know what the answer is, as some will say CoP has good aspects, most notably the opportunity for skaters to pull up after the sp. I do think the ISU needs to find a way to allow the lp/ free program to actually have more freedom of expression. Having to backtrack and constantly make adjustments to CoP is a result of the quick, forced way it was implemented.

    The brand is missing, the kiss 'n cry is generally unexciting for the most part, the magic has disappeared along with Kwan (and along with the way CoP eventually seemed to render Johnny Weir hopelessly frustrated -- in addition to other issues he faced, CoP seemed to take a toll on his artistry. His style of skating involves connecting with the music in subtly different ways for each performance, as can be seen in his many stellar exhibition programs).

    Instead of spending the off-season marveling over uplifting performances, we generally spend it carping about USFS favoritism and questionable judging, bemoaning the recently elusive 3 spots for the U.S. ladies, and playing ping pong over the minutiae of meaningless numbers. When I watch a competition, I hate the feeling of being drawn into the BS of season's best.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    DoD is IMO the best program Kwan's ever had. I personally prefer it to her 1998 SP, which is usually hailed as her best ever.
    I honestly think you live in my brain sometimes.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    My absolute favorite exhibition of Michelle’s is Dante’s Prayer (by Loreena McKennitt).
    Thanks for linking those. That was one of my favorite programs too.

    I always loved her 98/99 programs.
    Fate of Carmen
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    "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

  6. #26

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    I still can't believe that performance placed behind Kristi's "o babbino caro" SP.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    JMHO, but CoP cannot and will not reward this type of skating. So, I'm sad to say, we may never see it again. I love watching the links on this page because instead of wondering how many points each element will rack up, I simply stare in amazement as each movement and each element express the music and speak to me.

    Figure skating is a sport AND an art, and I think we've gone too far in the direction of the former. Is it possible to be creative and expressive under CoP? Yes, but it's much harder to do, and there is no reward for it. Even those that succeeded (Jeff Buttle comes to mind) did their best work in the 6.0 system in my opinion. With skaters like Yuna Kim and Patrick Chan, I wonder if their programs would be even more free and expressive without the restrictions of CoP. I think Yes. I know everyone has their opinion, but the reason I was drawn to figure skating was because of its artistic side. Let the people who say it's "not a sport" keep on saying it. We're never going to change their minds anyway. They can watch balls fly into nets all day long and I won't say a thing. In the meantime, please ISU modify the judging system and at least give the Free Programs some freedom.
    I totally agree with your statement!

    The free skate is really just a LONG short program with required elements. Thank goodness they got rid of the ladies' free skate spiral sequence requirement (although now, I do miss it in the short program). Basically, the free skate needs to be completely overhauled, IMO.

    Too bad we STILL have Speedy as president of the ISU (since 1994... HELLO; time for a change!). Let's not forget that he's not even a figure skater in the first place. Blech to politics and this obviously ridiculous situation.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    ETA: Does anyone know what US cheesefest she also performed Pocahontas post 1997 Worlds and skated an absolute blinder bringing the house down? I've seen it before but can't find it.
    I believe it was a Hershey's ProAm styled event, no? (One of the early versions of the Hershey Kisses Figure Skating Challenge?) I remember Tara, Nicole, Todd, etc competing there...I had it on tape, but I literally just got rid of those tapes a month ago. Gah!

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    I believe it was a Hershey's ProAm styled event, no? (One of the early versions of the Hershey Kisses Figure Skating Challenge?) I remember Tara, Nicole, Todd, etc competing there...I had it on tape, but I literally just got rid of those tapes a month ago. Gah!
    It was in Greensboro, NC! I was there!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    It was in Greensboro, NC! I was there!
    Someone find a video!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    Someone find a video!
    Is it from this competition where Tara decided to do her LP, complete with 7 triples and 3loop/3loop combo?
    (How many skaters today would do that in world competition, let alone at a pro-am?)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNJ_DlPJroU

    Can't find the Michelle video though...

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Is it from this competition where Tara decided to do her LP, complete with 7 triples and 3loop/3loop combo?
    (How many skaters today would do that in world competition, let alone at a pro-am?)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNJ_DlPJroU

    Can't find the Michelle video though...
    Yes, it is from that event.

    I wish I wouldn't have gotten rid of this tape! I thought I had transferred it to DVD but I can't seem to find that either...

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ITA, zigzag! About the music used for DoD, where is it from exactly -- you mention a compilation from random sources. Do you know more about this?
    Piece #1: Adagio
    From: The Red Poppy
    Composer: Reinhold Gliere

    Piece #2: Melodrame
    From: Orchestral Suite No.3
    Composer: Jules Massenet

    Piece #3: Final from Herodiade
    From: Orchestral Suite No.3
    Composer: Jules Massenet

    Dream of Desdemona is a masterpiece.
    Last edited by pollyanna; 05-17-2011 at 04:51 AM.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    ETA: Does anyone know what US cheesefest she also performed Pocahontas post 1997 Worlds and skated an absolute blinder bringing the house down? I've seen it before but can't find it.
    I uploaded it for our collective enjoyment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBBTs-GgdDI

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Piece #1: Melodrame
    From: Orchestral Suite No.3
    Composer: Jules Massenet

    Piece #2: Final from Herodiade
    From: Orchestral Suite No.3
    Composer: Jules Massenet

    Piece #3: Adagio
    From: The Red Poppy
    Composer: Reinhold Gliere

    Dream of Desdemona is a masterpiece.
    Actually I'm sure piece #3 is the Finale from Massenet's Herodiade. I bought the CD just for those 2.5 minute

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    Actually I'm sure piece #3 is the Finale from Massenet's Herodiade. I bought the CD just for those 2.5 minute
    You may be right. I got the info from Heather's MK fan page, and I have no idea if she intended to post them in numerical order, or if she was just listing the 3 pieces that made up DoD.
    Last edited by pollyanna; 05-17-2011 at 04:45 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    I uploaded it for our collective enjoyment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBBTs-GgdDI

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I recall that Michelle was criticized when she used different music and choreography for 2000-2001 season's The Miraculous Mandarin, music by Bela Bartok, choreo by Peter Oppegard. (This program was only skated this one time -- it might have become a masterpiece had she been able to further develop it. As youtube posters note, ironically Kwan was often criticized for safe programs, but when she went outside-the-box, she was royally panned for choosing unusual music and choreo we were unaccustomed to seeing from her -- definitely a shame).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWarys9kuzM
    For those of you that don't get Miraculous Mandarin, I would strongly suggest reading about the work, as that knowledge really made the choreography click for me.

    The whole 1999 - 2001 period had to have been such a frustrating one for the Kwan team. In addition to the music stuff, on one hand being criticized for not skating with enough speed, yet putting out these choreographically complex programs. Then, going the other way and stripping out the intricate details so the programs could be skated faster only to have commentary come back the other way about having empty programs. She just couldn't seem to make the judges happy.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf334 View Post
    She just couldn't seem to make the judges happy.
    Yeah, but I can't think of any skater who could make the judges happy all the time. This is a sport of no limits, and everyone has an aspect of his/her performances that can be worked on and improved. and when you have legends, you're bound to always find nit-pickers

    Plus, having nothing to criticize can make skaters boring

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    I uploaded it for our collective enjoyment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBBTs-GgdDI
    you do God's work

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