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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I remember a competition where Sarah and Sasha placed higher than Michelle in the SP. But tho I don't recall the exact competition, I thought Michelle should have placed no higher than 4th. She had a much easier 3toe instead of the 3flp that her competitors did, and she also fell during the program. The judges would never, tho, place Michelle less than 3rd after the SP, because then she wouldn't be in control of her own destiny in the LP.
    2000 Nationals in Cleveland.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I remember a competition where Sarah and Sasha placed higher than Michelle in the SP. But tho I don't recall the exact competition, I thought Michelle should have placed no higher than 4th. She had a much easier 3toe instead of the 3flp that her competitors did, and she also fell during the program. The judges would never, tho, place Michelle less than 3rd after the SP, because then she wouldn't be in control of her own destiny in the LP.
    Angela Nikodinov was 4th after the SP. I don't remember her programs at those championaships, so I can't say if Michelle should have been 4th after the SP.

    About the 3Toe vs 3Flip : Sarah's jumping technique was not good and without any step going into her solo 3Flip. So, i don't think Michelle's 3Toe was easier than Sarah's 3Flip !

    PS : this thread is still alive ? lol

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    Angela's short? Wasn't it that rather boring "Wide Eyes Shut" program? She could have placed higher had her program been a bit better

  4. #164
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    Damn, it feels like 2006 again with all the Kwan threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceJunkie View Post
    Damn, it feels like 2006 again with all the Kwan threads.
    2006? The years between 1996 and 2003 were EXTREMELY heavy on the Kwan! Especially 2001-2002.

    I think both ladies are amazing skaters. Despite comparisons, I find them so very different.

    The thing that sets Kwan apart is the organic nature of her skating. Janet Lynn was another with this incredible quality. It is a memorable quality, not easy to quantify, which is why COP was never made for Kwan's strengths (though I believe she would have exceled at any judging system she was brought up under).

    Yu na has amazing jumping skills and the ability to put together a cohesive program from start to finish. She has also shown great nerve when skating under tremendous pressure.

    Both beautiful. Both truly great skaters.

    O-

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    I was just referring to all the craziness surrounding on the board during/before/after Michelle's Olympics fiasco. It felt like there was a new thread every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk9tingfan View Post
    Not that it excuses a lack of performance, but my gut tells me that YuNa is depressed. Does anyone think that I'm all wet?
    I thought the same thing, especially when viewing her exhibition skate at Worlds. She looked like she could barely summon the energy to complete the performance. That is the difference I see between her and MK. MK realized that she had to skate for the love of it and not the medals, and her joy in skating always showed. I don't think Yuna loves it anymore.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakimm View Post
    I thought the same thing, especially when viewing her exhibition skate at Worlds. She looked like she could barely summon the energy to complete the performance. That is the difference I see between her and MK. MK realized that she had to skate for the love of it and not the medals, and her joy in skating always showed. I don't think Yuna loves it anymore.
    I believe Yuna was on pain medication during the exhibition which might explain her lack of energy/ambivalence during the performance.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Angela Nikodinov was 4th after the SP. I don't remember her programs at those championaships, so I can't say if Michelle should have been 4th after the SP.

    About the 3Toe vs 3Flip : Sarah's jumping technique was not good and without any step going into her solo 3Flip. So, i don't think Michelle's 3Toe was easier than Sarah's 3Flip !

    PS : this thread is still alive ? lol
    Angela was boring as heck in 2000 but she skated cleanly with very good elements so she probably should have been over Kwan in the SP. Hughes should have been 2nd over Cohen in the LP anyway though.

    I see the posters point that Kwan has an obvious edge at Nationals with her legacy that was already built up over so long, but she still had to capatilize on it by skating well time and time again, which to her credit she did. All events Yu Na Kim enter since 2007 even at the World level are hers to lose, as much or more than Kwan at Nationals, but unlike the reliable Kwan the extremely erratic and inconsistent Kim usually blows them anyway. Hence her winning only 1 of the last 5 Worlds when she was supposed to and easily had it in her grasp to win all 5, didnt even have to skate totally clean to have won all 5 in fact, just made fewer mistakes than she did all 4 times. By contrast Kwan didnt have to just skate cleanly but lights out to win in 1996, 2000, 2001, and even 2003, and produced it.

  10. #170
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post

    Your basic reading comprehension has not improved in even a 14 month span I see however, congratulations.

    Sonja Henjie
    And you can't even spell correctly the last name of the most accomplished skater in the history of the sport. There is no J in her last name. It's properly spelled H-e-n-i-e,

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    All events Yu Na Kim enter since 2007 even at the World level are hers to lose, as much or more than Kwan at Nationals, but unlike the reliable Kwan the extremely erratic and inconsistent Kim usually blows them anyway. Hence her winning only 1 of the last 5 Worlds when she was supposed to and easily had it in her grasp to win all 5, didnt even have to skate totally clean to have won all 5 in fact, just made fewer mistakes than she did all 4 times. By contrast Kwan didnt have to just skate cleanly but lights out to win in 1996, 2000, 2001, and even 2003, and produced it.
    Kim extremely erratic and inconsistent? Come on now, I would use those words to describe Kostner and even Czisny before this last season. If anything, Kim has been the most consistent female skater since the 2006-2007 season.

    Also, I agree that Worlds was Kim's to lose in 2009, 2010, and 2011. But in 2007, I'd say she was co-favorite with Asada and I think she needed to skate a clean (or close to clean) LP to win judging by Asada's inflated scores in the LP. And 2008? She was the favorite after the GPF, but then became a question mark before the event because of her injury. Also, she would have won if not for the almost entirely European judging panel. I think once the judging panel was decided, Kostner became the favorite by default. IIRC, there was only 1 judge that was NOT European on that panel and I thought Kim was under-marked in the LP and Kostner severely over-marked in both the SP and LP.
    Last edited by dawnie; 05-24-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  12. #172
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    I agree in 2007 she did not enter as the clear favorite, in fact Asada was probably the slight favorite. Still after Asada blew the short program it was clearly Kims to win or lose. And given that Ando held on to win even after Asadas great long program (still not clean though) Kim probably could have afforded a fall and won. Credit to Ando though for really skating like a World Champion in 2007 despite Asada and Kim's mistakes, unlike her winning performances this year (ugh). And you are right on 2008 but Kostner messed up almost every jump as usual anyway so it didnt matter, 2008 was easily alot of different skaters to win easily given what everyone else did, Kim included. I agree she should have won in 2008 though.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I agree in 2007 she did not enter as the clear favorite, in fact Asada was probably the slight favorite. Still after Asada blew the short program it was clearly Kims to win or lose. And given that Ando held on to win even after Asadas great long program (still not clean though) Kim probably could have afforded a fall and won. Credit to Ando though for really skating like a World Champion in 2007 despite Asada and Kim's mistakes, unlike her winning performances this year (ugh). And you are right on 2008 but Kostner messed up almost every jump as usual anyway so it didnt matter, 2008 was easily alot of different skaters to win easily given what everyone else did, Kim included. I agree she should have won in 2008 though.
    Keep in mind that Yuna got no credit for her 3s-2t combo in her 07 FS at Worlds because it was her 4th combo as she fell on both triple lutzes, one which counted as a sequence, and had already completed 2 other combos before the two falls and the salchow combo happened. Her score wouldn't have been enough to beat Mao for 2nd, but the gap would have been less and she certainly would have finished ahead of Kimmie in the FS.

  14. #174
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    But if she only fell once wouldnt she have gotten credit for that element. In that case she wins easily with just one fall. And even if not she gets GOE for any of her clean jumps, her PCS would go up with only one fall too, and the triple lutz value would be more if it wasnt a sequence, and even that altogether would be enough to add up the extra 9 points or so with just 1 fall but not the 2nd one.

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    Let me add that in 2007 Worlds in Tokyo, Ando and Asada did 4 3Lz and 3Flutz in the FS respectively, in addition to getting full value for their cheated triple-triples.
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 05-25-2011 at 09:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Why don't you do a poll? Please make the title at least 30 words long to ensure the right outcome.
    sorry but
    ant

  17. #177
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    Geez, this thread is still alive? I think FSU admins are going soft.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    I believe Yuna was on pain medication during the exhibition which might explain her lack of energy/ambivalence during the performance.
    She was high on painkiller she took that morning.

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    Yuna's long lines and jumps are much better than Michelle's ever were...and (gulp) she's an Olympic Gold Medalist. Michelle had (has) lovely edges and a certain emotional spirit.

    The "lines" are the big differentiator here. Michelle wasn't blessed with the long sleek lines, long legs-to-short-torso ballerina frame that Yuna possesses. I always found Michelle's short stumpy legs a bit distracting, especially when performing spread eagles (almost a bow-legged look). A great champ in her time, though. Skated with so much "heart" in her biggest competitions, such as 2003 Worlds in DC.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

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    ^ I think Yu Na is actually a little gangly looking because she does not use her lines to her advantage at all. Her arabesque positions, if you can call them that, look unnatural in her spirals and spins. Furthermore, Yu Na has yet to produce at least one good layback spin while Kwan was able to do that circa 2000.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 05-25-2011 at 03:54 PM. Reason: I just watched tapes, and Karen Kwan had a much better arabesque position that I gave her credit for, much better than Yu Na

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