Yu Na Kim is great skater but not even in same league as much greater Michelle Kwan

[RumbleFish]

^ I think Yu Na is actually a little gangly looking because she does not use her lines to her advantage at all. Her arabesque positions, if you can call them that, look unnatural in her spirals and spins. Furthermore, Yu Na has yet to produce at least one good layback spin while Kwan was able to do that circa 2000.

at this one trying to drag in Karen, as If Michelle isn't enough.

Having ed, what are your definitions of looking natural in sprials and spins? If you are talking about the free leg, first one you should criticize is Davis & White, who has to have the worst positions in history and still won the gold in ice dancing which is a discipline where free legs actually matters.

Please stop watching videos of Dick Button commentary of the past and face the reality. Free leg positions in ladies single skating just doesn't matter that much. I can't remember a single lady who won in Olys or Worlds past couple of decades who cared much about toe-point.

[IceJunkie]

Please stop watching videos of Dick Button commentary of the past and face the reality. Free leg positions in ladies single skating just doesn't matter that much. I can't remember a single lady who won in Olys or Worlds past couple of decades who cared much about toe-point.

Which is incredibly unfortunate.

Yu-na is a brilliant skater, and I've always felt it was a shame that her arabesque positions weren't as top-notch as they could be. She has improved a lot in that department, though, especially since 2007 or 2008.

[judgejudy27]

Dick Button is figure skating. Probably the greatest skater ever considering how advanced he was for his time, the most influential commentator ever, the man who basically made pro skating, a successful law school graduate, a very successful actor, talk about someone who has owned it from every avenue. Whatever he says probably has some merit, even if you disagree with it. He is genius.

[Ozzisk8tr]

Dick Button is figure skating. Probably the greatest skater ever considering how advanced he was for his time, the most influential commentator ever, the man who basically made pro skating, a successful law school graduate, a very successful actor, talk about someone who has owned it from every avenue. Whatever he says probably has some merit, even if you disagree with it. He is genius.

Dick Button was an actor? What on earth was he in? Did he do porn or something? I've never heard of him acting. Are you sure you're not confusing him with Richard Burton? Their names are awfully similar.

[judgejudy27]

This is from encyclopedia:

As an actor, Button has performed in movie roles such as "The Young Doctors" starring Fredrich March, to "The Bad News Bears Go to Japan" starring Tony Curtis. And, in television roles on The Hallmark Hall of Fame's "Hans Brinker]]" co-starring Tab Hunter, as well as "Dancing is a Man's Game" dancing alongside star Gene Kelly and famed New York City Ballet star Edward Villella, and appeared in "Mr. Broadway" starring Mickey Rooney. Other television appearances include "Beverly Hills 90210" and Stephen Spielberg's "The Animaniacs", "Omnibus", "Art Linkletter's House Party", numerous appearances on the Hallmark Hall of Fame, "Christmas at Rockefeller Center" with Robert Goulet and Carol Lawrence; among his other numerous guest star television appearances. On the stage, Button has starred in the touring productions of Irving Berlin's "Call Me Madam", Leonard Bernstein's"On the Town", The Gershwins' "Girl Crazy", Rodgers and Hart's "Pal Joey" , "The Teahouse of the August Moon", "Tall Story", and "Picnic" as well as in the New York City Center revivals of "Mister Roberts" and "South Pacific" to name a few. Button also studied acting with the famed Sandy Meisner at his school in New York City.

[RumbleFish]

Which is incredibly unfortunate.

Yu-na is a brilliant skater, and I've always felt it was a shame that her arabesque positions weren't as top-notch as they could be. She has improved a lot in that department, though, especially since 2007 or 2008.

Actually, I prefer to see better toe-points and free leg position from skaters as well. But the fact is that judging system does not encourage it and hence lack of such should not be used to denouce certain skaters who are doing their best to win competitions within the system.

Like you said, Yuna Kim has been improving her extensions since she debuted in senior competitions. Progress may have been gradual, but it makes sense since there is no point in sacrificing other aspects of her skating for something that does not get rewarded enough.

[RumbleFish]

No where did I say Dick Button wasn't prominent. I'm saying that he had an uncanny preference for flexibility vis-a-vie other commentators and the international judging panel.

I also want to add that even with his strong preferences, he didn't go out of his way regarding outcomes of competitions or evaluating a skater's career. Button praised Lu Chen's 1996 Worlds FD as "one of the best performances he had ever seen" despite Chen's lack of toe-point. Likewise, Button never said Sasha Cohen deserved to win notwithstanding her falls and two-footed landings.

I wish the same could be said about some posters here who cling on desperately to toe-point in order to denounce a certain skater.

[riveredge]

And miki88 is here like in every Yuna thread and every skating forum!!!!!!!! Obsessed much?!? What a big surprise!

I'm at this thread is still alive.

[bardtoob]

Please stop watching videos of Dick Button commentary of the past and face the reality. Free leg positions in ladies single skating just doesn't matter that much. I can't remember a single lady who won in Olys or Worlds past couple of decades who cared much about toe-point.

Oh how little you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=eDLVM-Hjzwc

[lakewood]

Yu Na has won only 1 of 5 World competitions. Kwan has won 5 of 11. I would hardly call the ratios close to equivalent. Yu Na has less World titles now than Miki Ando and an underachieving Mao Asada. Do you think in a million years that would have happened to Kwan? Slutskaya for instance is twice the skater Ando is, yet Kwan only allowed her 2 World titles, the same as Ando currently has. Slutskaya in losing to Kwan at the 98, 2000, and 2001 Worlds probably skated well enough to win most of the Worlds in the Yu Na Kim era, certainly easily won the Worlds of this year with her performances any of those years, yet Kim was not able to raise up to the level the same way as Kwan did.

Actually more than one skater has won their first Worlds. Baiul and Barbara Ann Scott has done it as well, so that makes atleast 2. There are probably been several others at some point. The reason there havent been that many is the previous rules allowed skaters to compete at Worlds as young as 13 or 14 which a teenage phenom probably will make it to Worlds that year, and obviously much less likely to win Worlds at that age then 15 or 16 which is already hard enough. Do you really think if the rules had been such skaters couldnt compete at Worlds until 15 (or 16 like currently) that atleast some, in fact many, of people like Kwan, Henie, Lipinski, Zayak, Fratianne, and others wouldnt still have the Worlds the years they did all at ages 15 or 16. It is possible if you make it the first Worlds for all of those some of them would have been impacted more by the pressure and not done it, but the likelihood is alot of them still would have, creating a much longer list. That doesnt mean winning Worlds that young as a newcomer is easy but it is very doable.

BTW I would say Michelle's only ever bad loss at Worlds was her loss to Maria Butyrskaya. Losing to Lipinski, Arakawa, Slutskaya, who are all skaters who either won both Olympics or Worlds or in Irinas case was at or near the top for a whole decade long like Michelle, are not exactly bad losses.

I want to point out that 4 of Kwan's 5 wins were in North America. She certainly had big advantage in that era of high politics. If she had competed with Lu Chen in China back in 1996, could she have won? Actualy, Kwan won 1/7 outside NA.

[riveredge]

I think every skater has her own weakness and strength..Yuna is not the only one. Yuna won 1 world title but she still has 5 World straight medals and never missed a podium in her entire career. It's not that bad. She's not retired yet. Can we just wait and see?

[Aussie Willy]

Dick Button is figure skating. Probably the greatest skater ever considering how advanced he was for his time, the most influential commentator ever, the man who basically made pro skating, a successful law school graduate, a very successful actor, talk about someone who has owned it from every avenue. Whatever he says probably has some merit, even if you disagree with it. He is genius.

And your authority to say he "is figure skating" comes from ....... [insert qualification].

[judgejudy27]

For someone who complains about my posts and threads on a daily basis it is sure strange you follow me around into every thread and have replied to my last 10 or so posts in the last couple days when I have ignored you for a good while now. It is like you wear a beeper to let you know whenever I post and you immediately follow everytime. I generally dont go into threads that dont interest me, let alone keep pursuing posters that bother me so much, but I have become your new obsession apparently. Stalker much.

[RumbleFish]

Oh how little you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=eDLVM-Hjzwc

I had no idea she skated in last 2 decades.

You need to take reading lessons before you start evaluating other people's knowledge.

[bardtoob]

And your authority to say he "is figure skating" comes from ....... [insert qualification].

Madison Ave, New York circa 1962 ... However, Uncle Dick did do a lot for the sport on and off the ice.

... Of course Uncle Dick was only brought up because some posters have no clue about skating history, and think his rants lack basis although he knew the likes of Sonia Henie, Ulrich Salchow, Cecilia Colledge ... personally.

[floskate]

Stalking, trashing, hysteria, bow legs, maths, toe point....this thread really does have it all.

While it's been such fun to read I think it's time to put this little hot potato to bed before I waste any more of my life reading such crap. Any personal gripes you have can be taken to PM.