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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudy_Gumdrops View Post
    I agree that Tosca didn't suit them, but I thought Ave Maria suited them just fine and was reminiscent of B&A's earliest programs. I think too many fans just got used to the perk and forgot about programs like Alexandros.
    I felt the same, I thought it was the best FD they ever had, they just didn't really turn it on at Nationals and the Olympics and I think people seemed to remember that more than the choreography.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Zhulin has worked wonders with I/K. At this age they have to improve their technique and with Zhulin they have the best possible coach IMO.

    ....If I/K stay with Zhulin, they will be his main focus towards Sochi. I hope they stay and they end up with the same result as N/K.
    IMO, I&K have everything they need to be one of the main contenders for gold as long as they stay on track. At the moment I agree that they need to stay with Zhulin. I also can't think of any other coach who could do more for them than Zhulin can (I'm talking about training and program choices).

    I will admit that the only thing that has me worried is that the trend in icedance is towards althletic tricks and speed. Zhulin's teams have tended to be more of a "overall" complete package but with emphasis on creativity and interesting themes in their programs. Unless the trend flips once again, I do wonder if I&K will rise even if they continue to steadily improve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I'm probably in a minority but I prefer B&S. I&K are more promising and I did enjoy their Don Quixote, but I find B&S to be understated in a lovely way. Though their FD this season certainly left a lot to be desired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    B/S are everything I/K are not IMHO.
    While I appreciate their technical abilities, they totally lack emotion. That's why I call them "vibrators": technically good but zero emotion.

    I/K are sloppy sometimes and make mistakes but BOY do they ooze charisma
    I love I&K but I do like B&S as well. However, at the moment they remind me of the issues I had with DomShabs even before Maxim's knee problems. B&S have great technique but their programs are not showing them off to the fullest advantage. Very blah and generic. B&S are better than that and IMHO are well capable of better choreography.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    You didn't hear it? Seriously? Everywhere I went, there were people calling them locks to win in Sochi just after winning World Juniors. Not just from fans either, from fearmongers as well. It was wierd.
    I think the fearmongers don't neccesarily think that I&K are good but those people seem to be doing the same thing they did last season when they were so sure that DomShabs were going to be given the gold in Vancover simply for being Russian. There are those who think that they will be given the political push especially with the Olympics being in Russia. Even Judy Blumberg seemed to encourage the idea that anything Elena and Nikita receive from here on in will be due to the location of the 2014 Olympics and their nationalities. Her exact words were "you can see they are getting the push." Not sure how that was since B&S, I&K and others had been battling for the number one Russian spot all season and at worlds B&S finished ahead of I&K.

    Cloudy_Gumdrops, ITA about people forgetting about B&A's beginnings as a team. Also perhaps some people may not have been following icedance until B&A's perky years. I think Tosca was meant to be a transitional program; what Linichuk thought B&A could handle while they continued to adjust to the changes she made in their skating.

    I often wonder if Ave Maria being a religious song turned people off; these days anything religious doesn't seem to sit well with most. Although for some reason when other teams have used that piece it seemed to be better received.

    Along with the bad costumes (I did like the design of the bottom half of Tanith's dress) I noticed the other day while watching that the interpretation of Ave Maria seemed to have changed. At Cup of China and Skate America, I thought that Tanith was supposed to be an angel helping Ben and the expression was softer and flowing. By the end of the season it was more dramatic. I think that tends to happen when a team is trying to figure out what the judges want and end up changing things that didn't really need to be changed. Look at how DelShoes tweaked Carnival in Venice and T&D completely changed Let's Face the Music and Dance back in 1994. Carnival in Venice never did look as amazing as it did at Skate America as the 05/06 season progressed. Sometimes teams get so caught up in trying to make up those points that they change their programs for the worse.

    I still loved Ave Maria but clearly the changes didn't sit well with everyone.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    alilou, fortunately there are different ice dance teams for different tastes.

    As I said before, there aren't dozens of threads going on about I/K, just this one thread in the whole year. Unfortunately every time three posters in a row say something positive about I/K, another poster denigrates it as hype. I remember the endless swooning about many other ice dancers,

    It's good though. Shows I/K are threatening.
    Asli,

    alilou,

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanof View Post
    Asli,

    alilou,
    Gosh fanof, I guess you disagree with me

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    Quote Originally Posted by peibeck View Post
    While I think I/K should stay with Zhulin as a coach, I have to admit I would love to see Pasquale choreograph a program (or two) for them. His style is very story/character driven, which I think would suit them beautifully.
    I would love to see that.

    Where's that "I agree with Asli" banner I made...?
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Gosh fanof, I guess you disagree with me
    Now that is a bit of a hasty judgement, don't you think?



    Who does Zhulin have apart from I/K once P/B leave? I hope they are not alone in training now. I think that having a competitor in training really helps with motivation along the year.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I would love to see that.

    Where's that "I agree with Asli" banner I made...?
    I think you lend it to me.

    I have it right next to the "I agree with oleada" banner.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    IMO they are very talented but not more so than V&M at that age. And the talk of everyone? Who's everyone? Not me But that's Proustable's point isn't it "they are the talk of everyone". That's the hype. It goes on and on, but there are some of us who are not sold yet. As for me, I prefer Shibs Yes, as oleada says I&K are so emotional. But messy at this stage. Shibs are not emotional. That doesn't matter so much to me. They have gorgeous posture, lines, precision, flow, lightness and joy They make me smile with their mad skills and pure dancing and lack of OTT angst
    I like some of your points, alilou, and disagree with others. Since when "emotion" equals OTT angst? They are completely different things! I think what attracts a lot of people to I/K( me among them) is that we see in them a possibility of a very wide emotional palette-from tender to fierce, from showy to tragic. Not because they are oh-so-pretty, but because they seem to tap into emotion of their programs- a rare gift for somebody so young, which usually( I hope!) only grows richer with age and experience.

    And they are not that sloppy- at this point they are sloppier than Shibutanis, but quite advanced for first-year-senior team.
    Comparisons with V/M are unnecessary. "More talented, less talented"- are we weighing talent like some sack of grain? Both are VERY talented, and quite different.
    What I like in what you said, though- we all find in skating what matters to us.
    Perfection of line and mad skills matter for you; musical or theatrical discovery within the sport matters to me (with good technique, yes, but not alone). Joys of loving skating!

    And lastly- I worry that with Olympics in Sochi the Russian Federation will go for instant result rather than nurture. I/K need time to mature; Nikita needs time to bulk up a bit and get stronger- he is still a teenager, and has the built of a teenager. I'd gladly give up a medal in Sochi in exchange for healthy I/K for many years to come. I hope Zhulin has enough strength to fight for them...
    Last edited by dinakt; 05-10-2011 at 10:01 PM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    I like some of your points, alilou, and disagree with others. Since when "emotion" equals OTT angst? They are completely different things! I think what attracts a lot of people to I/K( me among them) is that we see in them a possibility of a very wide emotional palette-from tender to fierce, from showy to tragic. Not because they are oh-so-pretty, but because they seem to tap into emotion of their programs- a rare gift for somebody so young, which usually( I hope!) only grows richer with age and experience.

    And they are not that sloppy- at this point they are sloppier than Shibutanis, but quite advanced for first-year-senior team.
    Comparisons with V/M are unnecessary. "More talented, less talented"- are we weighing talent like some sack of grain? Both are VERY talented, and quite different.
    What I like in what you said, though- we all find in skating what matters to us.
    Perfection of line and mad skills matter for you; musical or theatrical discovery within the sport matters to me (with good technique, yes, but not alone). Joys of loving skating!

    And lastly- I worry that with Olympics in Sochi the Russian Federation will go for instant result rather than nurture. I/K need time to mature; Nikita needs time to bulk up a bit and get stronger- he is still a teenager, and has the built of a teenager. I'd gladly give up a medal in Sochi in exchange for healthy I/K for many years to come. I hope Zhulin has enough strength to fight for them...
    I do have to agree with you that emotion and OTT angst are not the same thing. And I too enjoy emotional programs (I go back to my example of Kerr's first Muse FD). I guess I was trying too hard to make the point that just because they have good emotional expression at this stage seems to be enough for many posters. For me it's not.

    I also agree they're "not that sloppy", but perfect lines and mad skills will do it for me every time.

    The comment re V&M was again trying to understand why so much hype for this team since I don't find I&K any more special. (Less actually). I don't get it (as I've said) but I'm willing and open to get it. I wait for them to show something that speaks to me. Unlike other posters (not in this thread, but just over time reading FSU) I'm not at all turned off by the hype. Quite the opposite. It makes me curious, and a bit frustrated, and certainly watchful.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post


    I think the fearmongers don't neccesarily think that I&K are good but those people seem to be doing the same thing they did last season when they were so sure that DomShabs were going to be given the gold in Vancover simply for being Russian. There are those who think that they will be given the political push especially with the Olympics being in Russia. Even Judy Blumberg seemed to encourage the idea that anything Elena and Nikita receive from here on in will be due to the location of the 2014 Olympics and their nationalities. Her exact words were "you can see they are getting the push." Not sure how that was since B&S, I&K and others had been battling for the number one Russian spot all season and at worlds B&S finished ahead of I&K.
    I remember people were like "there's a russian judge on the ice dance panel!" The Olympics is over for VM and DW. Then when they didn't win but won bronze the corruption was still there because BA didn't win bronze. LOL! Blumberg is just on that line of thought that says while Russian teams may be good and talented the way they win is through talent and politics and politics may be first in that order but there is no politics and it is a triumph over the poltiics when Americans win. That is what Blumberg's statement said to me.

    Also I think Zhulin not pushing IK to their limits now is a fine theory of their performances the past season but it doesn't serve IK to have them fall behind or come in 10th in a worlds free dance all to perserve them for Sochi! Their reputation was damaged a little.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Also I think Zhulin not pushing IK to their limits now is a fine theory of their performances the past season but it doesn't serve IK to have them fall behind or come in 10th in a worlds free dance all to perserve them for Sochi! Their reputation was damaged a little.
    But reputation is not important under COP , remember. The wonders of COP!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post

    I also agree they're "not that sloppy", but perfect lines and mad skills will do it for me every time.
    alilou
    They lines are clear and long. They have madder skating skill and fly so fast on the ice.

  13. #53

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    Alilou, I understand preferring the Shibutanis, but I/K have pretty mad skating skills and their lines are just as good if not better than them.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou
    I also agree they're "not that sloppy", but perfect lines and mad skills will do it for me every time.
    I/K have excellent skating skills. So do S/S, but they are slower on the ice at the moment IMO.

    As for the perfect lines, for the moment the Shibutanis have not skated a dance which has demonstrated their ability in this department IMO. In their foxtrot/quickstep FD they hardly held any matching leglines (actually their free legs often didn't match) the exits of the lifts were not designed to show shapes and everything was held for too short a time. Of course this is the nature of the dance they chose, especially the quickstep. They are exceptionally musical and their unison is very good. It is the lines that need work IMO. Also the fact that S/S stand very far apart in closed holds detracts from the overall look. Last year I thought this was due to their height difference, but they haven't improved even though she has grown.

    I/K's Don Quixote FD, as a classical ballet, was more ambitious as far as lines were concerned. They had to have perfect control and matching lines at any time, any small imprecision with the legs, arms, body or head was visible at once. The free leg positions were more difficult. Their nerves in Moscow cost them a bit, but I believe this free dance has been a good exercise for them. They will start next year as a team having much better lines and unison than at the beginning of the season. Their lines and unison in the Golden Waltz were absolutely beautiful, despite the difficult music. They are already able to skate quite close too, though not as close as V&M and P&B yet.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I/K have excellent skating skills. So do S/S, but they are slower on the ice at the moment IMO.

    As for the perfect lines, for the moment the Shibutanis have not skated a dance which has demonstrated their ability in this department IMO. In their foxtrot/quickstep FD they hardly held any matching leglines (actually their free legs often didn't match) the exits of the lifts were not designed to show shapes and everything was held for too short a time. Of course this is the nature of the dance they chose, especially the quickstep. They are very musical and their unison is very good. It is the lines that need work IMO. Also the fact that S/S stand very far apart in closed holds detracts from the overall look.

    I/K's Don Quixote FD, as a classical ballet, was more ambitious as far as lines were concerned. They had to have perfect control and matching lines at any time, any small imprecision with the legs, arms, body or head was visible at once. The free leg positions were more difficult. Their nerves in Moscow cost them a bit, but I believe this free dance has been a good exercise for them. They will start next year as a team having much better lines and unison than at the beginning of the season. Their lines and unison in the Golden Waltz were absolutely beautiful, despite the difficult music. They are already able to skate quite close too, though not as close as V&M and P&B yet.




    GO ASLI !


    I love I/K , B/S and Khokhlova lines. The Standard !

  16. #56
    Hey, Kool-Aid!
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    Did I write that???

    eta...I see it's something alilou wrote. Asli could you edit your post and correct that.
    Tessa and Scott: Thank you

  17. #57
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    ASLI, you like B/S , too Khokhlova ?

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Did I write that???
    No, I'm sorry, I think I multiquoted and then forgot about the first part. I've fixed it now.


    fanof, I thank you, but the hype is embarassing me.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    I love I&K but I do like B&S as well. However, at the moment they remind me of the issues I had with DomShabs even before Maxim's knee problems. B&S have great technique but their programs are not showing them off to the fullest advantage. Very blah and generic. B&S are better than that and IMHO are well capable of better choreography.
    I too enjoy B&S and agree that they need better programs. They do remind me of D&S a bit. I think it's the long lines.

    Waltz of the Spirits is one of my fave FDs ever. I wish D&S hadn't diverged so much from that style of dance.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    The comment re V&M was again trying to understand why so much hype for this team since I don't find I&K any more special. (Less actually). I don't get it (as I've said) but I'm willing and open to get it. I wait for them to show something that speaks to me. Unlike other posters (not in this thread, but just over time reading FSU) I'm not at all turned off by the hype. Quite the opposite. It makes me curious, and a bit frustrated, and certainly watchful.
    But when you watch their Peruvian folk OD from last season you really don't think there's a reason to get excited for this team?
    IMO They just have IT. Shibs might be a cleaner team at this moment, but when I watch I/K I can't help wondering how amazing they are going to be and the wonderful programs (hopefully) that they will be capable of performing in the coming years as they mature even more. The possibility is endless. I had the same feeling when I first saw V/M too (unfortunately they have not grown into the team that I've always wanted them to become, but that's another story). No one knows what will become of I/K, but the potential makes the fans excited nonetheless.
    Last edited by shine; 05-10-2011 at 11:21 PM.

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