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  1. #1
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    2011-12 Grand Prix Pre-announcement Thread

    Since it's too early for an official 2011-12 Grand Prix thread because the 2011-12 GP announcement has not been released already, I thought we could begin the GP assignments discussion here.

    The ISU has already updated the World Rankings and Season bests through 2011 Worlds, but they have yet to remove the 2008-09 season points from the ISU World Standings.

    The GP assignments should be announced a day or two after the ISU GP Selection Meeting. Last year (2010) the meeting was June 11-12 and the GP assignments were posted on the ISU website around 9am Central Euro time on June 13. Someone with the ISU meeting schedule should know when this meeting is scheduled for 2011.

    The ISU should post the "wiped" (i.e. with the 2008-09 season removed) ISU World Standings within a week or so. These wiped world standings are the ones historically used for GP assignments in the past.


    Helpful Links:
    2010-11 Grand Prix Thread
    ISU Grand Prix Webpage
    2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement (contains assignment procedure)
    ISU World Standings
    ISU Seasons World Ranking (not historically used to determine GP assignments)
    2010-11 Season Best Total Scores: Men | Ladies | Pairs | Dance

    Discussion of 2011-12 Grand Prix competition sites and dates is here:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77157

    There has been some discussion about changes to the assignment process for 2011-12. Some relevant posts from other threads:
    Quote Originally Posted by sandra_persch View Post
    I recently read in the German skating magazine that ISU will implement some major changes again. Guess we won't know the initial assignments before the end of July.
    Quote Originally Posted by sandra_persch View Post
    Singles - down to 10 entries each
    Dance - down to 8 entries each
    Pairs - remains at 8

    Top 6 from worlds can do 3 events like in the past

    minimum score will be implemented at 2/3 of the previous season top score ... example Pairs S/S currently first with 210.72 so minimum score would be 140.48

    minimum score can be achieved in the previous season or at the autumn internationals like Nebelhorn Trophy

    massive change to the substitution rules
    the list is updated after each ISU senior event and published on the ISU homepage. if a skater or pair withdraws the first one in the ranking of the substitute list has to be invited. no more replacing with the lowest ranked skaters on the list. it has to be the number 1 on the list of substitutes.

    at least thats what my magazine says
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    So for Men, if all events, not just GP count, is the minimum score really 2/3 of 280.08, Chan's total score at Worlds? Or is is 2/3 of his TES for the competition of 147.92? (I'm assuming his combined TES is the highest TES total; there's no easy way to look this up?) Or is the minimum score for the SP 2/3 of Chan's 51.48 (again assuming this was the highest) and for the FS, 2/3 of Kozuka's 98.53 (if this was the highest FS TES)?

    If the latter, then the minimum TES score for Men would be 34.32, 34 if rounded, for the SP and 65.68, or 66 if rounded, for the FS, compared to 20 for the SP and 35 for the FS this season.

    This should eliminate the need for any quali round... Only 18 of the Men who reached the FS met this score in the FS, and while some might have had higher scores in other competitions, the score is rather daunting, and must be achieved for Euros and 4C's, if there is one standard for championships. Also, they've reduced elements in some years and have re-calibrated the base values and GOEs, making it difficult to compare from year-to-year.

    It would also make it interesting for various Nationals, where an otherwise qualifying skater would be skipped over for a skater who met the standard in the fall, a while before the skater was expected to peak for championships.

    Top 12 finishers at Worlds (historically guaranteed 2 GP spots, top 6 are seeded)

    Men: Chan, Kozuka, Gachinski, Brezina, Takahashi, Oda (seeded)
    Amodio, Joubert, Dornbush, Fernandez, Miner, Verner

    Ladies: Ando, Kim, Kostner, Leonova, Czisny, Asada (seeded)
    Makarova, Murakami, Korpi, Gedevanishvili, Hecken, Flatt

    Pairs: Sav/Szo, Vol/Tra, Pang/Tong, Kav/Smi, Baz/Lar, Yan/Cou (seeded)
    Duh/Rad, M-T/Mos, Tak/Tran, Ber/Hot, Evo/Lad, Hau/Wen

    Dance: Dav/Whi, Vir/Moir, Shibs, Pec/Bou, Wea/Poje, Bob/Sol (seeded)
    Ili/Kat, Cap/Lan, Cho/Zue, Cro/Poi, Zhi/Gaz, Car/Jon

    Top 3 at Junior Grand Prix Final and Jr. Worlds (historically guaranteed 1 spot)
    JGPF
    Men: Dornbush (* has 2 spot guarantee from Worlds), Yan, Rogozine
    Ladies: Sotnikova, Tuktamisheva, Li
    Pairs: Takahashi/Tran (* has 2 spot guarantee from Worlds), Stolbova/Klimov, Yu/Jin
    Dance: Monko/Khaliavin, Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Stepanova/Bukin

    Jr. Worlds
    Men: Rogozine (* also JGPF), Tanaka, Majorov
    Ladies: Sotnikova (* also JGPF), Tuktamisheva (* also JGPF), Zawadzki
    Pairs: Sui/Han, Stolbova/Klimov (* also JGPF), Takahashi/Tran (* 2 spots from Worlds)
    Dance: Monko/Khaliavin (* also JGPF), Pushkash/Guerreiro, Lichtman/Copely

    Also, historically skaters with an ISU World Standing placement of 1-24 (after 2010-11 season) and skaters with season best scores in the top 24 (for 2010-11) who are not in the top 24 in the World Standings are guaranteed 1 event if they are not guaranteed spot(s) already from Worlds/JGPF/Jr. Worlds.

    Hoping for some more rumors about the changes to the assignment process. It's difficult to project with certainty which skaters will get assignments when the rules may change and several skaters are considering retirement or taking the fall season off.

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    Additional relevant posts from the Yu-Na GP thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Skaters will get on the substitute list based on the CURRENT season results. So Ladies who do very well on the B-International circuit, provided they meet the ridiculously high minimum scores, will be able to replace those who withdraw.
    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Considering that all of the better skaters (top 12 Worlds, tops SB and ISU Ranks) will already have received assignments, anyone replacing a seed isn't going to be much competition for the skaters already on the roster.

    With the 2/3 of the top SB score, here are the minimum scores for the GP:

    LADIES: 134.29 - top 49 on the SB list only (no Caroline ZHANG or Cheltzie LEE)
    MEN: 187.41 - top 45 on the SB list only (no Paolo BACCHINI)
    PAIRS: 145.31 - top 22 only (no MARLEY / BRUBAKER or KADLECOVA / BIDAR)
    DANCE: 123.58 - top 37 only (no ORFORD / WILLIAMS, RALPH / HILL)
    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    USFS could still assign M/B to Nebelhorn, and hope they score 146 or better. It's not unusual for judges at Senior Bs to give slightly inflated scores. Maybe Cheltzie Lee could do a Senior B and up her score by a few points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Maybe Lee can't afford to do a Senior B just in the hope of qualifying for a GP. That's why I hope the ISU drops this idea of having a minimum GP qualifying score.

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    Reposting my edited rant from the GP dates thread. This time with a bit less foam coming out of my mouth.

    So according to what Sandra Persch has reported, not only will there be less spots, the top skaters will now be able to do one extra event, further taking away the opportunity from skaters lower down the rankings to gain very valuable competition experience.

    Instead of promoting skating worldwide, ISU is turning it into a more and more exclusive sport.

    Under the proposed 2/3 of season's best score minimum score for GP, Kadlecova/Bidar who are a very promising young team and have been giving good performances all season will not be eligible to compete at the GP.

    What is the benefit of that exactly?

    As Oleda said:
    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Is the ISU trying to kill the sport?
    And consider how relatively overmarked the best performances usually are.

    By that I mean: if the judges know that someone has clearly given a best performance, then they go overboard with the marks, especially the PCS.

    Savchenko/Szolkowy, Chan and Davis/White all gave great performances at Worlds but judging an average skater against the marks they were given is just ridiculous.

    And there are some Worlds where the winning performance is nothing special and some where it's clearly head and shoulders above the rest (the current Worlds are the second kind).

    I hope that the proposed minimum score concerns GP entry only, because if it's for all ISU Competitions, then it's going to kill the sport.

    The substitution change sounds great and definitely makes sense. It should enable skaters who performed well in the current season to get invited.

    If that was in place this season, teams like Zhiganshina/Gazsi and Walden/Edwards could have had a chance (well depending on the minimum score). It will also create a further incentive for skaters to do B-Internationals.

    I am very worried about the direction ISU is taking.

    If I was an average level skater, the prospects of not being able to do the GP and taking part in humiliating Preliminary Round that won't even get broadcast anywhere would surely motivate me to sacrifice a huge part of my life and my health to daily, gruelling practices.

    Let's pray that the minimum score proposal doesn't pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The substitution change sounds great and definitely makes sense. It should enable skaters who performed well in the current season to get invited.
    The German Federation has already published the announcement and forms for Nebelhorn Trophy. Its never been that early and makes me wonder if they are expecting huge numbers of entries

    http://www.eislauf-union.de/NebelhornTrophy2011.html

    The substitution rule should make a huge difference especially to skaters injured one season and coming back the next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I am very worried about the direction ISU is taking.

    If I was an average level skater, the prospects of not being able to do the GP and taking part in humiliating Preliminary Round that won't even get broadcast anywhere would surely motivate me to sacrifice a huge part of my life and my health to daily, gruelling practices.
    If I remember correctly the article said that the ISU was very disappointed with the level of skating in the SGP. But with the approach they are taking with the JGPs too there isn´t much there for skaters to develop on. often skaters from smaller federations learn soo much at international events but if ISU closes the door in their faces they can never experience what it is like to train with the best skaters live they do an Euros and Worlds.

    Here´s hoping that Cheltzie does the JGP in Australia if she can´t do a senior b abroad hoping for a SGP.
    I really hope that they come up with something like .... if you qualified for the free skate you don´t need the minimum score of make the last finalists score the minimum score

    One thing that I am still not sure about is, is if the minimum score requirement applies to the host countries too or not.

    also doing the maths ... you got the top 6 doing 3 SGPs each gives you 3 at each SGP ... adding 3 host picks will in some cases get you down to 4 spots for other countries ... with the 6 hosts gifting one another the slots for their skaters other federations have to send their skaters to the Senior Bs to get them on top of the substitute list. here´s hoping that USA, CAN, FRA, RUS, JPN and CHN don´t send too many skaters to the Senior Bs.
    Last edited by sandra_persch; 05-04-2011 at 01:16 PM.

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    Why finally making a good rule about the way the subsitutes are chosen when at the same time you are reducing the spots and letting the seeded skaters take 3 events, its completely unnecesary now.

    I wish figure skating had enough of a fan base worldwide for it to support a B World League, composed of all the main Senior B competitions, for all the "in development" skaters. The Grand Prix is surely taking the upper elitist approach, which is not a bad thing per se (It was always meant to be as a way of increasing the cash for the big six in the first place and a vehicle of getting more competitions and exposure for the big names) but it sure hurts lots of second tiers.

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    Odd that they're reverting to the 3-event format (ie, skaters can skate in 3 GPs, rather than 2). Just makes other skaters not have an opportunity to gain valuable international experience, and it potentially exhausts those skaters who skate 3 events (and costs a lot of $$, too!).

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    Well, at least more incentive for the US and Canada to start offering some Senior B competitions; maybe we'll see some in Asia as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    Odd that they're reverting to the 3-event format (ie, skaters can skate in 3 GPs, rather than 2). Just makes other skaters not have an opportunity to gain valuable international experience, and it potentially exhausts those skaters who skate 3 events (and costs a lot of $$, too!).
    I will be curious to see who decides to skate in three events. I somehow don't see too many skaters doing it. It might be expensive, tiring, and disrupt preparation process.

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    I would not want to skate 3 events if I didn't have to. The only reason to skate 3 events would be if you could count your best 2 and didn't have to designate which counted before the season began. However, doing that isn't fair and it will result in some skaters dropping out if they place well enough in their first two events to guarantee a spot in the GPF.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I would not want to skate 3 events if I didn't have to. The only reason to skate 3 events would be if you could count your best 2 and didn't have to designate which counted before the season began. However, doing that isn't fair and it will result in some skaters dropping out if they place well enough in their first two events to guarantee a spot in the GPF.
    There's also the matter of prize money...

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    Quote Originally Posted by acraven View Post
    There's also the matter of prize money...
    How much is it, do you know? Just curious..

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    For reference you can look up the prize money amounts (1st-5th place) published in last year's "2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement" (link posted in post #1).

    A rumor (still unconfirmed) I heard during US Nationals is that the JGP Final medalists would not be guaranteed 1 GP like in the past.

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    If a seeded couple retires ( Yankowskas Coughlin) does the 7th place team ( Duhamel Radford) become seeded..or do they go with only 5 seeds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    For reference you can look up the prize money amounts (1st-5th place) published in last year's "2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement" (link posted in post #1).

    A rumor (still unconfirmed) I heard during US Nationals is that the JGP Final medalists would not be guaranteed 1 GP like in the past.
    Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedge View Post
    If a seeded couple retires ( Yankowskas Coughlin) does the 7th place team ( Duhamel Radford) become seeded..or do they go with only 5 seeds?
    If rules regarding seeded skaters are kept the same, then the 7th place team can become seeded only if there is no other team that has achieved a season's best score equal or greater to the top six teams at worlds. In this case, though, since there is no other team, Duhamel and Radford will now be seeded on the Grand Prix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandra_persch View Post
    The German Federation has already published the announcement and forms for Nebelhorn Trophy. Its never been that early and makes me wonder if they are expecting huge numbers of entries

    http://www.eislauf-union.de/NebelhornTrophy2011.html
    Thanks for posting the link. For those who haven't clicked on it, the 2011 Nebelhorn dates are September 21-24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    The ISU should post the "wiped" (i.e. with the 2008-09 season removed) ISU World Standings within a week or so. These wiped world standings are the ones historically used for GP assignments in the past.

    ISU World Standings
    The "wiped" ISU World Standings are now available, as posted by euterpe in GSD.

    Under the 2010-11 GP assignment rules, skaters in the Top 24 of the World Standings were guaranteed at least 1 GP assignment.

    Top 24 in each discipline, including WS points and those with 2 GP guarantees from Worlds (W) [under 2010-11 rules]:

    Men
    1 3458 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    2 3321 Patrick CHAN CAN - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    3 3020 Nobunari ODA JPN - 2 GP (W6), seeded
    4 2931 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    5 2713 Artur GACHINSKI RUS - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    6 2663 Michal BREZINA CZE - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    7 2644 Samuel CONTESTI ITA
    8 2603 Jeremy ABBOTT USA
    9 2590 Tomas VERNER CZE - 2 GP (W12)
    10 2212 Brian JOUBERT FRA - 2 GP (W8)
    11 2147 Adam RIPPON USA
    12 2140 Florent AMODIO FRA - 2 GP (W7)
    13 2031 Yuzuru HANYU JPN
    14 2014 Alban PREAUBERT FRA
    15 1970 Alexander MAJOROV SWE
    16 1930 Kevin VAN DER PERREN BEL
    17 1876 Adrian SCHULTHEISS SWE
    18 1680 Evan LYSACEK USA
    19 1652 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN
    20 1489 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP - 2 GP (W10)
    21 1476 Shawn SAWYER CAN - retired
    22 1471 Richard DORNBUSH USA - 2 GP (W9)
    23 1429 Andrei ROGOZINE CAN
    24 1395 Brandon MROZ USA

    Also with guarantee from Worlds:
    37 1005 Ross MINER USA - 2 GP (W11)

    Ladies
    1 3522 Miki ANDO JPN - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    2 3435 Carolina KOSTNER ITA - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    3 3327 Akiko SUZUKI JPN
    4 2961 Kiira KORPI FIN - 2 GP (W9)
    5 2771 Alena LEONOVA RUS - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    6 2760 Yuna KIM KOR - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    7 2618 Alissa CZISNY USA - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    8 2567 Kanako MURAKAMI JPN - 2 GP (W8)
    9 2484 Mao ASADA JPN - 2 GP (W6), seeded
    10 2347 Rachael FLATT USA - 2 GP (W12)
    11 2332 Mirai NAGASU USA
    12 2307 Ksenia MAKAROVA RUS - 2 GP (W7)
    13 1945 Cynthia PHANEUF CAN
    14 1848 Viktoria HELGESSON SWE
    15 1842 Valentina MARCHEI ITA
    16 1736 Haruka IMAI JPN
    17 1704 Elene GEDEVANISHVILI GEO - 2 GP (W10)
    18 1638 Joshi HELGESSON SWE
    19 1574 Amelie LACOSTE CAN
    20 1398 Polina SHELEPEN RUS
    21 1328 Joannie ROCHETTE CAN
    22 1323 Christina GAO USA
    23 1248 Laura LEPISTÖ FIN
    23 1248 Agnes ZAWADZKI USA

    Also with guarantee from Worlds:
    26 1244 Sarah HECKEN GER - 2 GP (W11)

    Pairs
    1 4065 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    2 3716 Qing PANG / Jian TONG CHN - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    3 2575 Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV RUS - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    4 2528 Vera BAZAROVA / Yuri LARIONOV RUS - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    5 2278 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN - 2 GP likely based on season best score
    6 2077 Caitlin YANKOWSKAS / John COUGHLIN USA - split, W6
    7 2009 Narumi TAKAHASHI / Mervin TRAN JPN - 2 GP (W9)
    8 2002 Maylin HAUSCH / Daniel WENDE GER - 2 GP (W12)
    9 1855 Stefania BERTON / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA - 2 GP (W10)
    10 1824 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Dylan MOSCOVITCH CAN - 2 GP (W8)
    11 1776 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG USA - 2 GP (W11)
    12 1599 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS
    13 1417 Stacey KEMP / David KING GBR
    14 1415 Paige LAWRENCE / Rudi SWIEGERS CAN
    15 1388 Caydee DENNEY / Jeremy BARRETT USA - split
    16 1362 Huibo DONG / Yiming WU CHN
    17 1330 Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR / Maxim TRANKOV RUS - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    18 1257 Yue ZHANG / Lei WANG CHN
    19 1221 Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD CAN - 2 GP likely (W7), seeded likely
    20 1188 Mylene BRODEUR / John MATTATALL CAN - retired
    21 1170 Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN
    22 1166 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Yannick KOCON ITA - split
    22 1166 Lubov ILIUSHECHKINA / Nodari MAISURADZE RUS
    24 1162 Klara KADLECOVA / Petr BIDAR CZE


    Dance
    1 4171 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    2 3814 Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT FRA - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    3 2732 Vanessa CRONE / Paul POIRIER CAN - 2 GP (W10)
    4 2704 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    5 2652 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    6 2549 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV RUS - 2 GP (W6), seeded
    7 2426 Sinead KERR / John KERR GBR - retired
    8 2414 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    9 2385 Nora HOFFMANN / Maxim ZAVOZIN HUN
    10 2278 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA - 2 GP (W8)
    11 2045 Pernelle CARRON / Lloyd JONES FRA - 2 GP (W12)
    12 2000 Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS - 2 GP (W7)
    13 1895 Xintong HUANG / Xun ZHENG CHN
    14 1884 Madison CHOCK / Greg ZUERLEIN USA - 2 GP (W9)
    15 1804 Ksenia MONKO / Kirill KHALIAVIN RUS
    16 1782 Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI ITA
    17 1778 Lucie MYSLIVECKOVA / Matej NOVAK CZE
    18 1771 Ekaterina RIAZANOVA / Ilia TKACHENKO RUS
    19 1498 Ekaterina PUSHKASH / Jonathan GUERREIRO RUS
    20 1412 Kristina GORSHKOVA / Vitali BUTIKOV RUS
    21 1404 Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND GBR
    22 1222 Cathy REED / Chris REED JPN
    23 1193 Madison HUBBELL / Keiffer HUBBELL USA - split
    24 1133 Kharis RALPH / Asher HILL CAN

    Also with guarantee from Worlds:
    26 1063 Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI GER - 2 GP (W11)

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    Wow! It's surprising too see the scores change once they got rid of the 2008-2009 season.

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    Skaters also guaranteed at least 1 GP event from the top 24 Season Best Score List and not already mentioned:

    Men:
    19 212.71 Ryan BRADLEY USA retired
    20 211.17 Armin MAHBANOOZADEH USA
    21 209.99 Denis TEN KAZ
    24 205.59 Peter LIEBERS GER

    Ladies:
    9 178.97 Adelina SOTNIKOVA RUS
    12 172.78 Elizaveta TUKTAMISHEVA RUS
    13 170.60 Sarah MEIER SUI retired
    17 167.02 Ashley WAGNER USA
    19 161.75 Yasmin SIRAJ USA likely going back to JGP
    22 156.41 Vanessa LAM USA likely going back to JGP

    Pairs:
    12 169.95 Katarina GERBOLDT / Alexander ENBERT RUS
    17 159.85 Marissa CASTELLI / Simon SHNAPIR USA
    22 145.78 Britney SIMPSON / Nathan MILLER USA split
    24 144.46 Mary Beth MARLEY / Rockne BRUBAKER USA

    Dance:
    18 138.16 Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM CAN ISU
    21 134.62 Victoria SINITSINA / Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN RUS likely going back to JGP
    22 133.36 Charlotte LICHTMAN / Dean COPELY USA
    24 131.01 Isabella TOBIAS / Deividas STAGNIUNAS LTU
    Last edited by SamuraiK; 05-11-2011 at 11:00 PM.

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    Do they take away the skaters/teams that retire or split, and move up the rank of Season Best Score?

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