What does Richard Dornbush need to do to move into the top tier of men's skating?

[Skittl1321]

If Rippon manages the quad lutz- I think he may be the future of the USA program. If he doesn't get a consistent quad, it's tough to say.

[orbitz]

Does he beat a revitalized Rippon on the Nats level [w/ a 3x]? How would you measure these 2 against one another?

This is the first year that I've seen Dornbush skate. Dornbush's Sherlock Holmes program is way more interesting to watch than what Rippon has been putting out for the past few years. Putting these two head to head I would favor Dornbush to come out on top.

[olympic]

Top 10 at World's doesn't put you in the top tier? Man, you're tough! How big is your tier?

..........

But in my mind, US Nationals podium, and top 10 at World's puts you in the top tier of skating.

Yeah. I get you. I meant by 'top tier' equal with top men like Oda, Kozuka, and possibly Chan. [Don't know yet how I feel about Gachinski]

[pinky166]

I think Dornbush has a lot more going than those three. Mroz doesn't have great skating skills. Carriere never had the best triple axel technique. And Rippon is very inconsistent with triple axel, lacks power.

Obviously there's still time but I think technically Dornbush is a LOT stronger than those three.

I think so too. He has better jump technique and stronger nerves than the others, it would appear. He's also older than Rippon, Carriere, and Mroz were when people were hyping them, and I think that makes a difference.

I'd say all he needs now is a quad and more experience. I don't think he's going to be the next Chan or Kozuka or anything like that, but I do think he can enter the top echelon of men's skaters within the next few years.

[jlai]

I think Dornbush has a lot more going than those three. Mroz doesn't have great skating skills. Carriere never had the best triple axel technique. And Rippon is very inconsistent with triple axel, lacks power.

Obviously there's still time but I think technically Dornbush is a LOT stronger than those three.

Each of the guys mentioned has (or had) something the others don't and it's not as if Dornbush is head and shoulders above the other potential contenders. Truth is I wouldn't have been surprised if Mroz or Adam ended up top ten at worlds ala Dornbush had those two been sent to worlds--that's because US actually has about 6 skaters who are capable of making top twelve at worlds like Dornbush. The only difference is that Dornbush did well at nationals to land the world spot while others didn't.

I'm bringing it up because last time we hyped Adam look at what happened to him.

[bek]

Each of the guys mentioned has (or had) something the others don't and it's not as if Dornbush is head and shoulders above the other potential contenders. Truth is I wouldn't have been surprised if Mroz or Adam ended up top ten at worlds ala Dornbush had those two been sent to worlds--that's because US actually has about 6 skaters who are capable of making top twelve at worlds like Dornbush. The only difference is that Dornbush did well at nationals to land the world spot while others didn't.

I'm bringing it up because last time we hyped Adam look at what happened to him.

I was always not so sure about the Adam hype. When he won Jr worlds the first time he didn't have a triple axel-let along and quad. I frankly felt if he didn't have a triple axel by that age, would he ever have it. And its still inconsistent. And I wondered if he'd ever be competitive on the top stage. Because jumps are pretty important. Adam's a lovely skater, but technically I don't think he's ever been competitive with the top men.

Yes I agree that Mroz others could be top 10 too, but I still think Dornbush is better than them. I'm not exactly completely willing to write of Brandon yet, but Brandon is a bit inconsistent, and his skating skills aren't good enough. He also lacks pizaaz.

What I like about Dornbush is the technical skills are there. He has amazing jumps, great speed across the ice. And is starting to perform. He needs to improve his skating skills even more but I think the BASICS are there.

[jlai]

Since world spots will be decided by mainly US nationals, Dornbush will need to place top 2 again at nationals (next time under higher expectations and pressure). Given there're only two spots for worlds next time I won't be surprised if yet another young skater surprisingly makes it.

That said great job to Dornbush at his first worlds. But he is still young and needs a longer senior track record before I can say much about him.

[aftershocks]

Continue to work hard, and continue to display consistency and perform to wonderful music and choreography that accentuates his strengths. I admire both Ross and Richard for how well they have carried themselves and for how well they performed under the pressure of their senior Worlds debut.

I wish not that it apparently seems so crucial for them to train quads. I hope they and their coaches will take their time and consider approaching quads with caution and strategically without harming their bodies and their careers. I say focus on improving skating skills, maintaining consistency and choosing the right music and choreography first. They and their teams seem to have done an excellent job so far, and I hope the USFS will not interfere in a bad, pushy way with the development of these two seemingly well-adjusted young men/ superb competitors.

[olympic]

I wish not that it apparently seems so crucial for them to train quads. I hope they and their coaches will take their time and consider approaching quads with caution and strategically without harming their bodies and their careers. I say focus on improving skating skills, maintaining consistency and choosing the right music and choreography first. They and their teams seem to have done an excellent job so far, and I hope the USFS will not interfere in a bad, pushy way with the development of these two seemingly well-adjusted young men/ superb competitors.

I was thinking, like you, that I'd rather have Richard be on the cautious side at all costs, but if his technique is sound and he has good speed, I assume he probably would survive Quad training better than most. Plus, it sounds like per Tammy Gambill that he is training them anyway, and has a good track record in practice.

Besides, the Quad is going to be more crucial on the road to Sochi than it was on the way to Vancouver. In the LP this year, we saw several men do at least 1 Quad. We're seeing the 4sal from Brezina.

Re Rippon - There is something the Intl. judges love about him and that will always put him in good stead with the USFSA. I recall when he moved to Orser, the 3x became more consistent and Orser was being hailed as the coach of the year, then the 3x went away again but I noticedit happened while his general consistency declined overal, so it's something beyond bad technique. I'd like to know what really happened in the past year.

[MikiAndoFan#1]

He just needs to keep doing what he is already doing.
His trip to Worlds will have come as a surprise even to him and he handled it magnificently.

I agree. Whatever Tammy Gambill is doing with him is working. I have to say, I was really impressed by Richard at Worlds, so I hope he and Tammy keep up the good work.

[chipso1]

I just rewatched Richard's program. He has such effortless speed! With a quad, he will be contending for the podium for sure. His technique is so sound and he has a great presence on the ice!

[jlai]

My 2c: It actually took a few years in the jgp for Dornbush to break out of the pack . So I'd give him time before having more expectations for him than other talented US men.

[Aussie Willy]

Lovely skater. I am very impressed with him. Just give him time.

Although Jason Brown might be the one to challenge him. Need to give him 12 months to see what he can do.

[aftershocks]

I really enjoy Ross Miner's skating as well, and I think Ross performed a bit more cleanly than Richard overall at Worlds, but both were lowballed in the marks, especially Ross.

I agree that Richard's speed and good technique on his jumps are great assets. His secret weapon is his wonderful long program to Sherlock Holmes -- great music and choreography, performed consistently all season. Hope there are more wonderful programs like this one to look forward to in coming seasons.

Unclear exactly what happened with Rippon, as he started off the season beautifully. Some have felt that he is experiencing physical growing pains (perhaps emotional growing pains as well).

The battle among the U.S. men will continue to fascinate, and that is why it is such a shame that the low-scoring at Worlds led to losing a third spot for next year. None of the men on the team should be blamed.

[dinakt]

Agree with the majority here- Dornbush should continue on the same path. He could/ should work on impoving everything in a calculated fashion, but he has no glaring weak sides. Work on quad; work on posture; work more on SS; but his jumps are already strong, and SS- already good, nerves seem to be OK, he has spark, and he is faaaaaast!
Interesting that Pretty Vegas said Richard was even faster during Worlds- because during Nationals I was so impressed with his speed- great ice coverage.
I hope for interesting programs from him, and best of luck!
... but I am getting almost depressed thinking of how many excellent skaters will be fighting for 2 World spots ( at least there are 3 for 4CC).

[Coco]

I was a little shocked that the British Eurosport announcers said the US Men "failed rather dismally." They made this comment during the ladies event. Our National Champion, well, he finished as the 3rd us man. But that wasn't a huge shock. I'd was just really surprised to hear anyone describe Miner and Dornbush as "failing dismally." I thought they did pretty good for their first worlds!

[olympic]

I was a little shocked that the British Eurosport announcers said the US Men "failed rather dismally." They made this comment during the ladies event. Our National Champion, well, he finished as the 3rd us man. But that wasn't a huge shock. I'd was just really surprised to hear anyone describe Miner and Dornbush as "failing dismally." I thought they did pretty good for their first worlds!

Media drama. That's all. Superficially comparing results over the past couple of years [Evan's Gold in Vancouver, etc.] with what happened in Moscow and generally linking it to the US men as a whole. Dornbush had some tiny errors, but Miner was squeaky clean, although I think his opening CiSt was downgraded to level 1? But not a failure at all IMO

[briancoogaert]

I think so too. He has better jump technique and stronger nerves than the others, it would appear. He's also older than Rippon, Carriere, and Mroz were when people were hyping them, and I think that makes a difference.

His jumping technique is not that good. It's forced many times, ala Vaughn Chipeur. Dornbush will have to be carefull with his shoulders while jumping.

[olympic]

His jumping technique is not that good. It's forced many times, ala Vaughn Chipeur. Dornbush will have to be carefull with his shoulders while jumping.

Forced? Not that Good? To each his own I guess, but I don't see that at all. His jumps are waayy more controlled than Vaughn's ever were, besides being more connected to what he's doing on the ice and more musical.

RE the shoulders - I'm not sure it's hunching, or his 3-piece costume in the LP on a 5'8" frame that made him look that way. But if so, it might be THE one thing he needs to improve, and that may come with maturity.

[aftershocks]

^^ ITA, olympic -- hunching effect could also be more part of the character he was portraying in the lp. Sure, Richard still has lots of areas for improvement (including posture and stretch). I hope he steadily improves and continues to find interesting music and choreography.