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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    So according to you the Junior World Championships do not actually matter.



    The way the SD was judged, I seriously don't believe I/K had a chance for the bronze medal. I/K could have been 4th in the SD with their performance, but they were 6th with quite a points difference with S/S.

    However, if they had skated the free dance well, they could have finished 5th above Bobrova/Soloviev and that would have been a good result. Shame about their bad free skate, but they are so inexperienced! Did you see Nikita attempting to stop when he couldn't hear their music had started? Maybe he thought the referee would let them start again! Awww. The shock seemed to sap all the energy out of him. If they had been competing pre-novice, novice etc. all those years, they might have been able to handle these situations better. It's all a learning process.
    You just agreed with my points. Based on the way ice dancing is judged now, I/K in their current form will never be anywhere near Olympic podium and that's what Rus Fed has to deal with.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by millipied View Post
    You just agreed with my points. Based on the way ice dancing is judged now, I/K in their current form will never be anywhere near Olympic podium and that's what Rus Fed has to deal with.
    And you agreed that the problem is not with Zhulin, but with all the supporters of S/Z, including the judges or whatever they are called.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by millipied View Post
    You just agreed with my points. Based on the way ice dancing is judged now, I/K in their current form will never be anywhere near Olympic podium and that's what Rus Fed has to deal with.
    How can you read my post and reach this conclusion? I totally disagree with what you say. IMO I/K are on the right track. Given time with Zhulin they can be even gold medal contenders in Sochi. However, they lacked experience and the pressure at home was too much. The expectations from them were not realistic.

    Anyway, we have hijacked the Pechalat/Bourzat thread.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by risto1803 View Post
    And you agreed that the problem is not with Zhulin, but with all the supporters of S/Z.
    Problem is the right coach, the right package, the right programs, the right place and the right time. Let's not personalize the problem but focus on solution. Perhaps the current coach can't find it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by millipied View Post
    Problem is the right coach, the right package, the right programs, the right place and the right time. Let's not personalize the problem but focus on solution. Perhaps the current coach can't find it.
    Well, you sound like an expert. So what is the solution?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    How can you read my post and reach this conclusion? I totally disagree with what you say. IMO I/K are on the right track. Given time with Zhulin they can be even gold medal contenders in Sochi. However, they lacked experience and the pressure at home was too much. The expectations from them were not realistic.

    Anyway, we have hijacked the Pechalat/Bourzat thread.
    You may disagree all you want but the fact remains that everyone in Russian camp criticized what Zhulin created for them this season. People talk potential but they are not off to a good start.I mean that FD was wrong on so many levels for a debut year. Hence everyone worries. And personally, no matter how briliant they are, I really don't see them beating S/S. Unless the latter got injured or suddenly fall off S/Z favor.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by millipied View Post
    Problem is the right coach, the right package, the right programs, the right place and the right time. Let's not personalize the problem but focus on solution. Perhaps the current coach can't find it.
    So that means Shpilband & Zueva, microwave container packaging, programs without an ounce of imagination, suburban Detroit, and today?

    Or? I'm all about a solution, too, I'm confused regarding your reference point here.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by risto1803 View Post
    Well, you sound like an expert. So what is the solution?
    I am not offering solution. I am just chatting and guessing on messaging board. Just like you.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taso View Post
    So that means Shpilband & Zueva, microwave container packaging, programs without an ounce of imagination, suburban Detroit, and today?

    Or? I'm all about a solution, too, I'm confused regarding your reference point here.
    Well, if that means winning, yes to all points above.

  10. #110
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    Would someone translate the blog? I don't see mentioning of I/K in it.

    It is strange how on one of the best russian figure skating boards http://forum.fsonline.ru/ no one is talking about this. Maybe it is just a rumor. Last year many were talking that B/S are going to Linichuck. Obviously it didn't happen.

    I don't mind I/K going to another coach if a better one than Zhulin for them at the moment existed. I am afraid the RF will ruin them if they force them to change coaches.

  11. #111
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    Sad but true, twizzling fast and being able to chuck the girl around your shoulders like a sack are the most important things in ice now and the Russians need to adapt. I wouldn't mind the Russian/French teams going to S&Z *just* for those skills. Just keep them away from program selection and "choreography".

    And the critiques of Morozov are true, but I will always give him credit for making Bourne and Kraatz watchable for me.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by risto1803 View Post
    Would someone translate the blog? I don't see mentioning of I/K in it.

    It is strange how on one of the best russian figure skating boards http://forum.fsonline.ru/ no one is talking about this. Maybe it is just a rumor. Last year many were talking that B/S are going to Linichuck. Obviously it didn't happen.

    I don't mind I/K going to another coach if a better one than Zhulin for them at the moment existed. I am afraid the RF will ruin them if they force them to change coaches.
    Until it is confirmed officially, it is rumor. And yes it is discussed on forum.fsonline.ru. Look better.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    I'm a bit out-the-loop on this one; why are I/K leaving Zhulin?
    At the beginning of the season (before the GP series even), there was quite a lot of criticism from within the Russian skating community, both about the programs I/K were skating and the development of the skaters themselves (Tarasova was quite critical of them). Toss on an uninspired GP season, losing to K/A in the FD at Nationals and a disappointing Worlds performance (which is hardly fair) and the reasons sorta settle themselves. Piseev has criticized Zhulin's training regime as well.

    I'm not one of those who feels that current dance is terrible - I love COP dance more than any other discipline and it's actually inspired me to go back and watch a lot of earlier dance teams that I either didn't have the knowledge to appreciate (G/P in particular) or just didnt know (too many to name). I actually really disliked most of Zhulin's choregraphy this year (or his choreography for P/B and I/K at any rate).

  14. #114
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    On http://forum.fsonline.ru/ I read posts about Arthur Verner's comment that there is a small conflict between I/K and Zhulin but he is pretty sure it will be resolved.

    I guess in any case we should now soon what will happen. If they change coaches with would be in the next two weeks. After that would be late (to move somewhere, start learning new technique, etc)

  15. #115

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    What is Linichuk up to these days?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    What is Linichuk up to these days?
    Pushkash & Guerrero.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Ugh. I thought Zhulin was doing a good job with both P/B and I/K, so I'm going to be peeved if both of them are forced to leave him.

    .....The thing I don't understand is this: P/B were forced to leave Zhulin since the Russian Fed wanted the focus to be on Russian skaters. In this case, that would be I/K. But, now, they want I/K to leave Zhulin? It seems a little unfair, if they were going to force I/K to leave, for the Russian Fed to also say that P/B and Zhulin couldn't continue to work together as they wished.
    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    I don't know. Zhulin seemed like he was being very careful with them regarding injuries, etc. My big fear is that rather than becoming ice dance greats, they're going to be broken as a result of meddling by the Russian Fed. This horrible image of them skating all broken down with injuries and mental fatigue keeps going through my head. I don't want the same thing that happened to DomShabs--mainly his knee--to happen to I/K.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taso View Post
    Your post made my blood run cold
    Taso, gerbil's post gave me chills as well. I didn't have any issues with I&K's FD or final placement. Actually I was glad they aren't being pushed to come up with results right away; they need time to develop. However if the Russian Federation is getting antsy about Sochi already I'm also worried that there might be a repeat of DomShabs.

    P&B are being forced to leave Zhulin and now I&K are as well (possibly?) I'm not sure what on earth the reasoning behind that could be unless the Russian Federation is doing some Monday morning quarterbacking and are thinking along the same lines as some others on this thread. They are looking for someone who can overcome the S/Z icedance monopoly? I hope come 2014 they don't live to regret the decisions being made this year. This also reminds me of the situation with Chen Lu and her coach after the 1996 season.

  18. #118

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    I wouldn't actually think that moving I/K from Zhulin is so bad.Yes, he is really good in promoting his teams but I don't think this was in favor of I/K in the end.They should give them the time to evolve as skaters before trying to turn them into stars.I personally didn't like the russian fluff made about them around Worlds time.They don't need that much attention that early, they're too young.
    The problem is that there is nobody they can work with in Russia except for Morozov.Unless they enter the Zhuk/Svinin group.
    I also don't think that the problem were the Shibutanis.Nobody expected a medal from I/K at that point.And I also blame the RF for pressuring both their teams that early in their careers and not being able to support their teams.Journalists,commentators,fans,people involved into the skating clubs,everyone fights with eachother and hurting both teams at this point.Next year should be the Russian couples' year , not this one.It's like they're doing one mistake after the other and only helping the S/Z group.

    If both P/B and I/K are out of the Zhulin camp does this mean that he chose 'Ice Age'?I remember Piseev openly asking him to make a choice.

  19. #119

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    There are quite a few chances that these rumors are about Ilushechkina-Maisuradze, who did actually try to switch coaches to Vassiliev, but then came back to Pavlova.

    Quote Originally Posted by risto1803 View Post
    ]On http://forum.fsonline.ru/ I read posts about Arthur Verner's comment that there is a small conflict between I/K and Zhulin but he is pretty sure it will be resolved.
    Artur Verner probably got his information from the videointerview with Elena and Nikita (the link is in From Russia with love thread).

  20. #120

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    What is the conflict ? And could you answer in Elena and Nikita's topic please ?
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

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