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  1. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Please tell me you were joking...
    Kind of.

    But my pretend theory makes more sense than what actually happened. Why would USFS shoot itself in the foot -- yes, I know, the general public doesn't know USFS has a foot, but still -- by bringing negative publicity down on itself, bad-mouthing one of their own showcased performers, and making themselves look petty and vindictive?

    For what? Just to get Phil Hersh off their backs? To calm Frank Carroll down? None of that makes sense to me.

  2. #762
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    I, the skater, agree to adhere to my seasonal plan


    Was Mirai reprimanded last year when Frank publicly stated she was not practicing the way she should. Seems to me in that case she was not adhering to her seasonal plan.

    With regard to that: Do skaters submit their seasonal plan to the USFSA and does the USFSA check to see that they are following it.

  3. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Kind of.

    But my pretend theory makes more sense than what actually happened. Why would USFS shoot itself in the foot -- yes, I know, the general public doesn't know USFS has a foot, but still -- by bringing negative publicity down on itself, bad-mouthing one of their own showcased performers, and making themselves look petty and vindictive?

    For what? Just to get Phil Hersh off their backs? To calm Frank Carroll down? None of that makes sense to me.
    I suspect they have some real live marketing people at USFSA that they haven't had before. The primary rule of marketing is. Get attention bad or good, make sure people love you or hate you, nothing in between.

    A few black eyes here and there, dosen't hurt in the end. Everything needs its conspiracy. For instance, Hersh sells 10 times the readers by throwing out "it looks like this might be going on", or "I have heard from some people who said this". It doesn't have to be fact, its what was heard and then he follows it up as more information comes out about what happened. That is the news today and it is what we all want to hear about, the down and dirty. I suspect Hersh created some of this, but they wanted the press stories so that they were on the front page good or bad. To me, its a smart thing to do. Plus, this needed to be done for the good of the sport, as you can't let things continue to be under the rug.

  4. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen View Post
    You might want to recheck your sources. The judges put Allen first in both the short and long programs at the 1980 Nationals. However, she was not able to make up the deficit after compulsory figures, giving Fratiane the win.
    I knew that. What I was trying to say is that the perception of the public (I know, I know – what public?) was left with the perception that one skater skated the best, the other skater won the prize.

    Here is how it was reported in Sports Illustrated (January 28, 1980 – yes, I keep all my Sprots Illustrateds. )

    The judges didn't exactly vote skaters up or down; the system is a lot more complicated than that. They just voted subjectively, as they always do, which means that some of them may have been staring subjectively at the ceiling while the skating was going on.
    New topic:

    You might also want to cite a source that would support your allegation that Carroll was trying to have Allen removed from the technical panel at nationals.
    Quote Originally Posted by LadyNit
    In response to the bit I bolded: he is? When was this reported, or are you the source for this?
    I wrote thoughtlessly. Sorry.

    I didn’t look anything up, but what I was remembering was the outcry at 2010 U.S. Nationals. Mirai put on a dazzling display in the long program to Carmen, sweeping the television and live audiences off their feet. Then when the scores came down, Mirai lost to Rachael (who also skated great, but not “Mirai great”) because of two costly and questionable downgrades. The tech specialist was Lisa-Maire Allen, and as I recall a supposed Carroll-Allen animosity was alleged.

    I apologize to Mr. Carroll for having spoken rashly, if in fact he did not have anything to do with all this. If he calmly accepted the judgments of the tech panel, even though they were borderline and lined up consistently against his skater, then I am wrong and my hat is off to the gentleman.

  5. #765

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    Just chiming in here to say that this thread makes me giggle just a little...

    I recall, just after Nationals, reading a thread (threads?) on this forum where a number a posters felt that it was time for Mirai to leave Frank, he was no longer a good coach for her, with all the speculation as to which coach would be best for Mirai, etc.

    Now that eville, conniving, lying Rachael committed the sin of sins at Worlds by not reporting her injury, all that previous talk is somehow forgotten...

  6. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    I suspect they have some real live marketing people at USFSA that they haven't had before. The primary rule of marketing is. Get attention bad or good, make sure people love you or hate you, nothing in between.
    All kidding aside, I hope you are right. I know that USFS has made some prominent hires in the last few years with an eye toward media savvy.

    Maybe one of the problems has been figure skating's reputation as a frou-frou "rich kids' sport," above the fray of the rough-and-tumble.

    Plus, this needed to be done for the good of the sport, as you can't let things continue to be under the rug.
    Good point, too.

  7. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post

    Hiow could "earning spots" possibly be the reason for holding a world championship competition?
    Earning spots might not be why the ISU holds the World Championships, but the World Championships not only determine the number of spots for the next year's championships and, when applicable, the Olympics, but it also how many skaters get direct entries the following year vs. competing in the quali round -- assuming there will be enough skaters who meet the new minimum requirements to need a quali round -- in addition to GP assignments for the following season. A GP host federation might be very interested in having the maximum number of skaters in the top 12 who are guaranteed spots, as opposed to having to use host picks. Any federation with a deep field or up-and-coming skaters are interested in having additional spots to get their skaters international exposure at championships.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    When I try to imagine myself in Rachael's position, I always come up with something like this:

    "I can do this! Sure it hurts, but I can suck it up. I'm gonna go out out there and skate like my life depends on it. I'm going to skate for God and country and hope for a miracle."
    This.

  9. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    When I try to imagine myself in Rachael's position, I always come up with something like this:

    "I can do this! Sure it hurts, but I can suck it up. I'm gonna go out out there and skate like my life depends on it. I'm going to skate for God and country and hope for a miracle."
    Mine would be: "Oh I am injured and it's a serious one. I want to suck it up, but I am obligated both contractually and ethically to at least report this injury to my Federation so they can monitor my progress and ask the next in line skater to get ready. It isn't just about me. I receive money from USFS and there are world spots at stake. They are entitled to know I am injured. I will try my best to suck it up, but if I don't get clearance from the doctors or USFS to go, then I will gracefully step aside, let my serious injury heal, and the next in line can take my place."

  10. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    I suspect they have some real live marketing people at USFSA that they haven't had before. The primary rule of marketing is. Get attention bad or good, make sure people love you or hate you, nothing in between.

    A few black eyes here and there, dosen't hurt in the end.
    On the back of an 18-year-old kid? Nice.

  11. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Mine would be: "Oh I am injured and it's a serious one. I want to suck it up, but I am obligated both contractually and ethically to at least report this injury to my Federation so they can monitor my progress and ask the next in line skater to get ready. It isn't just about me. I receive money from USFS and there are world spots at stake. They are entitled to know I am injured. I will try my best to suck it up, but if I don't get clearance from the doctors or USFS to go, then I will gracefully step aside, let my serious injury heal, and the next in line can take my place."
    To each his own.

    But I think you should change the first line to "Oh dear me I am injured..."

  12. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But my pretend theory makes more sense than what actually happened..
    Your pretend theory is ridiculous. Do you really think NBC would put into a contract that USFS has to manufacture a scandal to up ratings? Because that would give both parties a tremendous legal liability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    whole post
    Any reason to post this in TWO threads?

    For that matter, it would be a lot easier to follow this discussion if it was only in the thread specifically about it. It's hard to remember who said what in what thread and people only reading here are missing a lot of information that was provided in the other thread.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  13. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That would only make the USFSA look pettty and foolish. To win in court, they would have to prove not only that Rachael violated the terms of the contract but also that this violation caused a financial loss for the USFSA.

    Plus, whatever publicity the case generated, it would look like the Bad Bad Wolf picking on Little Red Riding Hood.
    I think the USFSA has already managed to look pretty petty and foolish to some people judging from some of the posts defending Rachael. And not just on this recent picadillo but other times as well. I'm just saying.

    And someone said either on this forum or another skating site something about any publicity good, bad, or ugly is good publicity for U.S. Figure Skating. Not sure if it was on FSU or GF but I just read that from a poster yesterday. Something about USFSA hiring new blood to generate said publicity-and apparently publicly embarassing Rachael is just fine and dandy with them as long as they get said publicity.

    One things for sure in the U.S. - any one can sue in the U.S. but just the same I doubt Rachael would let it get that far-especially if she wants to keep skating competitively. She's probably paid her fine, or it's come out of her funding whichever way they work it.

  14. #774
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    Since there are two threads on this issue (although even one is one too many at this stage, in my opinion ), I'm closing this one down.

    Feel free to repeat the same arguments ad nauseam in the other thread.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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