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  1. #41
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    Well, it's not so much that you competed injured, but you competed with an injury that clearly had a strong negative effect on your performance?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    How would the U.S.'s spots for next year have been determined if she had withdrawn after the SP?
    http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page...-0-file,00.pdf

    Championships Single & Pair Skating & Ice Dance and Preliminary Rounds

    ....

    However the Competitors who withdrew because of:
    - illness or injury, (provided this illness or injury is certified by the ISU Medical Advisor) or
    - unexpected damage to the equipment during the warm up or the performance (provided this damage of the equipment is certified by the Referee), are not considered as entered for the purpose of this Rule in the following cases:
    i) Competitors who were assigned to the Preliminary Round, but did not start it;
    ii) Competitors who did not start or finish the Short Program/Original (Short) Dance, but were among the top ten (10) in the Preliminary Round;
    iii) Competitors who did not start or finish the Free Skating/Free Dance, but were among the top ten (10) in the Short Program/Original (Short) Dance.
    Since Flatt finished eighth in the Short Program, spots for next year would have been assigned as if Czisny had been the only American entrant: three spots for a Top Two finish, two spots if she finished elsewhere in the Top Ten, one spot if she finished eleventh or lower.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    Ummm...timing is a real consideration here. It's not as if Mirai could have obtained a visa and jumped on a plane from California to Russia overnight. If this happened Friday, there was no way she could have replaced Rachel. If Rachel withdrew, we'd have had only one skater. Unless there's a physician's report that states otherwise,meaning this occurred over a week ago, Rachel was pretty gutsy to skate and try to get that 3rd spot. She knew exactly what was at stake.
    Well, a stress fracture doesn't happen overnight. It's one of those things that develops over time, so she HAS to have been in pain for quite a while. Enough pain to see a doctor. What would have been the REALLY sportsmanlike thing to do (and I commented on this in the PBP thread) is for Rachael's people to be in touch with Mirai's people (and perhaps those of the second and third alternates) putting them on alert that there might have been a problem and alternates may very well be needed. (And USFS could have been kept in the loop as well, so they could have visa issues taken care of ahead of time.) This is what happened with Evan & Jeremy in 2008 so that Jeremy had a sufficient heads-up that Evan might have to withdraw.

  4. #44
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    Rachael said she only found out last Friday that she had a stress fracture. I don't think that was enough time for them to fly in Mirai. Who knows if she was still training. Athletes compete injured all the time. It's unfortunate but it happens. I feel bad for Rachael. This was suuppose to be her big year as a skater, but she had nothing but trouble. Maybe she should take a year off and be a student.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rottie View Post
    Why wouldn't first alternates, or for that matter all alternates, get visas just in case? After all, being an alternate means possibly having to make the trip on short notice.
    Yeah I don't understand that either. Are we 100% sure they don't do that? Why would you even have an alternate if they couldn't get to the venue because they didn't have the documents ready?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Camel View Post
    Rachael said she only found out last Friday that she had a stress fracture. I don't think that was enough time for them to fly in Mirai. Who knows if she was still training. Athletes compete injured all the time. It's unfortunate but it happens. I feel bad for Rachael. This was suuppose to be her big year as a skater, but she had nothing but trouble. Maybe she should take a year off and be a student.
    She knew she was injured well before that, and she knew she was having big trouble with the toe jumps. All they said was that it was diagnosed on Friday, not that she wasn't feeling the pain beforehand.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Of course I do not KNOW for sure..but one has to admit the two situations are awfully coincidental. Let's get real here though, Rachael has had a nagging injury ALL season. It's been hot and cold the whole time and it was hot this week. The bottom line is, she knew she was in trouble before she even left for the event and she pushed herself to go. In pressure situations, these injuries tend to flare up and that's just what happened. I guess I just wish Rachael & Co. could have thought about her history this year (e.g. GPF) and what kind of consequences traveling so far away for such a high pressure situation could have had.
    If this is the case, the USFS gambled and lost, as they have a tendency to do. I didn't know about Rachael's injury situation, so I felt certain she'd snag at least 6th or 7th place if she'd skated to her abilities. And I thought if Alissa competed at least as well as she did in the short, the U.S. would surely regain 3 spots (except for the one fall in the long Alissa skated very well -- just not with the complete confidence that her extraordinary talent deserves **). True that 3 spots is not the main thing that should matter in the long run. Its just frustrating that the U.S. ladies have been so close to regaining 3 spots the last couple of years, and if the 2010 Olympics had counted, Flatt and Nagasu placed very well there.

    The whole situation with Rachael not being 100% is so unfair to the other U.S. ladies IMHO. I felt sorry for Rachael watching her skate in Moscow. She should be proud of what she's accomplished in skating, and that she went to the Olympics. How much more did she and USFS really think she'd be able to achieve? IMO, Rachael had a great deal of promise as a young skater, but regardless of injury, she seemed to peak awhile ago and has not really improved her overall skills to a point the international judges would ever seem to consider as being podium worthy. The U.S. ladies who do have that kind of talent in my estimation are Alissa and Mirai (of course both of them have been known for inconsistency despite their magical talents). Wagner, Zawadski, and Gao I think are also more talented than Flatt -- except for the latter two being less experienced.

    I have never felt that Rachael was an exceptional skater or that she ever skated well enough to win the U.S. title. Great for Rachael that she does have that one U.S. title, but Mirai had better programs at Nats this year (despite silly botching of a spin in her Nats lp), and I felt Mirai should have been the one to go to Worlds with Alissa.

    OT ** Hands down, Alissa should be receiving higher PCS than Ando and Kim. Its just that Alissa has a rep for not always delivering, so that even when she does deliver well, she is not always fairly rewarded. I thought Alissa deserved third in the sp. She did have the advantage of skating the lp after her top competitors, and the door was slightly ajar. Unfortunately, she failed to push through that door with confidence. However, I suppose the fact Alissa fell on one jump but didn't allow it to deep six her program, should be counted as a victory. Alissa could have been on the podium -- she has two beautiful programs with a style that a number of international ladies are trying to copy. When will the U.S. ladies break through again to challenge with confidence and inspired performances?

  8. #48
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    Rachael is a poop sandwhich for not WD'ing, yeah I went there.

    Mirai could've WON, same LP from 4CC would've won the LP IMO. I cant freaking believe how we only have 2 spots again.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    Rachael is a poop sandwhich for not WD'ing, yeah I went there.

    Mirai could've WON, same LP from 4CC would've won the LP IMO. I cant freaking believe how we only have 2 spots again.
    ITA.

  10. #50
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    I have never had lower opinion for Team Flatt until today.

    Nagasu might not be able to fly in on time and she might not be trained since 4CCs, but it's not up to team Flatt to withhold news about an injury from USFS. It really should be up to USFS to decide whether they want to risk with Flatt (with Flatt and Tom Z's approval) or try Nagasu or Zawadzki or Gao or whatever.

    And I hate that Tom Z had no regard for his skaters' well being. Having said that, Flatt is an adult and should also be responsible for the decision.

    Quick, someone drag Zawadzki out of that hell hole now.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    She knew she was injured well before that, and she knew she was having big trouble with the toe jumps. All they said was that it was diagnosed on Friday, not that she wasn't feeling the pain beforehand.
    And you know all this how? Big difference from feeling pain and getting a diagnosis.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  12. #52
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    I feel a bit sorry for Rachael. Regardless, it must be so upsetting to get injured so close to a major championship - one which could well be your last.

    Who knows whose decision it was - if it was hers, I can understand, because all any competitor wants to do is compete - naturally. I suspect she might have told herself it'd be alright once she was on the ice, but clearly it wasn't.

    If it was Tom Z.'s ... well, I need no more excuse to want to punch that man in the face lol. There's just something (alot) about him which rubs me up the wrong way.

    I'm not a fan of her skating, but I do wish Rachael the best. I'm somewhat surprised at the way her career's gone. I pictured her being a Sarah Hughes type; mentally strong, solid if unspectacular, and bagging a few major medals by sheer consistency over other skaters messing up, but it hasn't happened.

    As for Nagasu - who know's what she'd have done. I do agree though, that she could have won.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    Rachael is a poop sandwhich for not WD'ing, yeah I went there.

    Mirai could've WON, same LP from 4CC would've won the LP IMO. I cant freaking believe how we only have 2 spots again.

    maybe if she brought the judging panel from 4CC with her. with the earthquake weakening mao and miki (to a lesser extent), maybe.

    but with a strict caller? i'm a little skeptical, forgive me.

    to say nothing of yeonah being quite the kick ass competitor herself. it took quite a chain of events to bring her this loss--she was so close to winning--even with her not her usual self. i would guess if you alter even one little thing, the one who would come out on top is yeonah.

    look, i'm not a fan of flatt's, but this... near vilification of her is disappointing to me. i could just as easily say --with equal amount of proof as you--that if mao skated the same as 4cc she would have kicked mirai's butt. but how was i to know mao would show up and be no where near top condition? unless the usfsa warned mirai way early, like, 3 days after nationals -- be prepared to go to worlds-- and frank was there to remind her constantly, you really think the irrepressible, spontaneous, fun-loving mirai is going to train as if she were actually going to compete?

    i felt like telling off that reporter shoving the microphone in rachael's face asking, you just skated in pain, how do you feel-- gosh let the girl go off and take some pain meds and just cry her eyes out like it seems she wants to do.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    look, i'm not a fan of flatt's, but this... near vilification of her is disappointing to me.
    Word.

  15. #55

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    If Rachel DID tell Tom that something was wrong, I'm more concerned with a possible pattern at Camp Zakrajsek. If something hurts more on Day 2 than Day 1, It's Camp Z's responsibility to have a professional check it out and it's Camp Z's responsibility to tailor the training based on the diagnosis. If Tom Z had her continuing double run throughs on an undiagnosed injury, that really scares me. Since it's extremely unlikely we will ever hear the actual sequence of events from the key players, I'll stop there.

    As for the speculation on Mirai, there's no way to know how hard she was training, especially with the delay.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  16. #56
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    This bit with Rachel is just frustrating. She pulled this crap at the GPF and now she pulled it here. I really feel her coach is obsessed with seeing himself on TV. They knew dang well she should have been out of both competitions, but they continued on. And the USFSA should be ashamed of themselves for the way they push Rachael down folks throats. I hate when they get on a skaters bandwagon and then do what ever they can to make sure the world loves her. I'm sorry, but while Rachael is a nice girl, she doesn't have the qualities that many people enjoy in skating. It doesn't make a difference of how you tell her to dress or to cut her hair, them trying to make her fit in actually did more damage IMO.

    As far as Mirai, I believe she was in Canada working on her new programs.

  17. #57
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    The thing is Rachael skated with tendonitis in the same leg at Skate America and she did much better there than she did at Worlds. I think it's pretty unacceptable that she had such a terrible outing in the LP. She was obviously thinking too much about protecting her injury, but as an athlete, you need to learn how to deal mentally with something like that, as past champions have. Besides that, Rachael hasn't skated one clean LP this season... Guess her "the rock" days are over.

    But besides that, I don't really think substitution would have been a good idea either because I'm sure all three alternates scaled back their training and probably weren't fit for worlds anyway.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=Aceon6;3166323]If Rachel DID tell Tom that something was wrong, I'm more concerned with a possible pattern at Camp Zakrajsek.

    I have had the pleasure(unfortunate as it was) of watching TZ training his skaters at Bmoor. If he were the last coach on the planet, I would want my child to quit skating!! I watched one of his younger girls do run-through after run-through visibly injured and in pain --poor child never smiled once. Then tosses out the "go get that checked" after her 3rd session of the day.

    I am happy that Rachel will be moving on to college and wish her the best. Hopefully if she feels the need to continue skating it will be w/o TZ.

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    OMG, I cannot believe the vitriol I'm seeing thrown at this young woman! You'd think that having three entries in ladies every year is a God-given right or something with the way some people are reacting! C'mon, people! She didn't drown kittens!

    Athletes compete injured. Gameday is gameday. It happens. She went out and did the best she could. It's unfortunate it wasn't up to some people's standards, but shit happens. No one except Rachael and the people closest to her know what really happened (no, not even Phil himself), so all this haranguing is rather pointless -- and just plain mean and nasty.

    /rant off
    Haunting the Princess of Pink since 20/07/11...

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ers View Post
    Then tosses out the "go get that checked" after her 3rd session of the day.
    If that's the case, perhaps the USFSA should be doing some monitoring, at least of the envelope skaters.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

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