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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    The one thing I like about S&Z is that IMO they treat all of their teams as if they were #1. For any other coaches the Shibutanis would have been way down on the priority list and the coaches would have been thrilled with a top 12 finish. But Zoueva said that they were training them (and politiking I'm sure!) as if they were contenders for the world podium.
    However, come Sochi, they will have to make a choice while politicking.

    Plus, however fairly they try to divide their time, their time is still divided. It's can't be like having two coaches dedicated to just two couples - only one of them senior - and putting all their hopes and energy into those couples.


    Maybe I&K could go to them for a year or two, learn all the technique, win medals, and then move on to a voidier coach? Or Shpilband would let them use an outside choreographer? Yeah, I know... never gonna happen.
    I prefer the technique Zhulin teaches to the technique S/Z teach. Shpilband's teams are doing the tricks, but their overall quality is not as good as the Zhulin or Zazoui teams IMO. Virtue/Moir still throw a lot of snow off their blades and don't have that sweet edge quality that DelShoes and now Pechalat/Bourzat have IMO. Many of the other Shpilband teams have this problem and in addition are sloppy with their free legs and lines.

    Of course as competitive skaters they want to win medals and in CoP quality doesn't count for much. One might say that I/K can only wish to learn to be skate like V/M. However, I find it sad that the art of ice dance as it used to be, can't be transmitted at least to some young dancers. When this generation of coaches are gone, noone will remember how the former ice dancers used to float effortlessly and silently on the ice.

  2. #82
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    Shpilband about coaching Russian skaters:
    "We have not received any requestes from Russian Fedederation. But if any Russian skaters are interested, we would like to discuss such possibility."
    http://www.championat.ru/other/_skat...ws-800744.html

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I prefer the technique Zhulin teaches to the technique S/Z teach. Shpilband's teams are doing the tricks, but their overall quality is not as good as the Zhulin or Zazoui teams IMO. Virtue/Moir still throw a lot of snow off their blades and don't have that sweet edge quality that DelShoes and now Pechalat/Bourzat have IMO. Many of the other Shpilband teams have this problem and in addition are sloppy with their free legs and lines.

    Of course as competitive skaters they want to win medals and in CoP quality doesn't count for much. One might say that I/K can only wish to learn to be skate like V/M. However, I find it sad that the art of ice dance as it used to be, can't be transmitted at least to some young dancers. When this generation of coaches are gone, noone will remember how the former ice dancers used to float effortlessly and silently on the ice.
    IMO that's it. And I predict we'll be getting there sooner than later. Let's say the powers that be haven't been really impressed by some of the results and are willing to make some changes to reflect to that area.
    Quality over poorly done jobs. Let's hope it's true !
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  4. #84
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    Ah yes, the good old days when only the best skaters with the most wonderful qualities won medals. Not like these young whippersnappers today galloping across the ice on their toepicks kicking up snowstorms.
    Tessa and Scott: Thank you

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Ah yes, the good old days when only the best skaters with the most wonderful qualities won medals. Not like these young whippersnappers today galloping across the ice on their toepicks kicking up snowstorms.
    There were politics in the old days and there are still politics under the CoP.

    The skaters in older times had some admirable qualities that today's skaters don't have, such as better flow, smooth and clean edges, better lines and unison. Today's skaters have other admirable qualities that the old skaters didn't have, such as the increased difficulty of the step sequences.

    What I meant with my above post is that I don't want the former qualities to be forgotten in favour of more difficulty, because ice dance has started to look a bit too ragged IMO.

    Maybe the judges could mark down elements that are raggedly done even without visible mistakes and give higher marks to easier but better skated elements. At the moment elements are marked down only for mistakes or when the couple is a lower-level one. Whereas in pairs, judges have started making a finer distinction. For instance, V/T's magnificient 3twist was only level 1 because of its entry, but received such a high GoE that it was worth only 0.14 points less than S/S's level 2 3twist, which didn't have a mistake either. Maybe this kind of marking could help the couples firts perfect what they are doing and then pass to the next level.
    Last edited by Asli; 05-03-2011 at 04:59 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Ah yes, the good old days when only the best skaters with the most wonderful qualities won medals. Not like these young whippersnappers today galloping across the ice on their toepicks kicking up snowstorms.

  7. #87
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    Maybe, my dear Asli, the French teams need to be trained differently so as not to blow big comps. Delschoes blew at least two chances at medals, IIRC, and P/B don't need this mentioned again. S/Z teams, with the exception of Tanith's fall on the CD at the Worlds they were supposed to win, tend to come through with excellent training and nerve.

    There were those who thought Isabel (not Oliver) was sorely lacking some elegant qualities of line and edges, as well, so as usual it's chacon a son gout.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thais View Post
    In my opinion, the weakest point of Russian skaters is choreography and the next step (IMO), in order for Russia to have a powerful team at Sochi, is to have more non-Russian experts involved in the training process of their athletes.
    Yes, that is their weakness, but why should non-Russian experts (choreographers) help Russian skaters to medal?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Maybe, my dear Asli, the French teams need to be trained differently so as not to blow big comps. Delschoes blew at least two chances at medals, IIRC, and P/B don't need this mentioned again. S/Z teams, with the exception of Tanith's fall on the CD at the Worlds they were supposed to win, tend to come through with excellent training and nerve.
    The whole French team needs sports psychologists and this is not only for figure skating.

    My post was not about French teams. I am talking about the direction I hope Ilinykh/Katsalapov take and in general ice dance takes. The fact that Del/Schoes blew their chances several times and that Fabian is a headcase doesn't change this, their skating skills were still wonderful IMO. There is no rule that says skaters with good edges should make more mistakes. Actually it should be the contrary.

  10. #90
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    Ugh, Zueva & Shpilband would snuff the sexy right out of I/K.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by millipied View Post
    Pechalat/Bourzat were leaving in any case.
    ?? If it had been up to them and their coaches, they would still be in Moscow. Their words, not mine.
    "I missed the view and viewed the mist..." ©

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    Ugh, Zueva & Shpilband would snuff the sexy right out of I/K.
    I'm not so sure of that. When V/M switched to S&Z, they were different from the other couples in that camp and I think they kept their individuality. They continued skating in a more mature way, are more balletic and tidier and Tessa even hasn't become skinny like Shpilband's other female skaters. So hopefully I/K can keep their individual style too.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliona22 View Post
    Does Gorshkov have any non-Russian teams besides Hoffman/Zavozin?
    Zvorygina/Bernadowski are consulted by him.

    Sylwia Nowak is in Moscow with two Polish dance teams at the moment. I don't know with which coach she's consulting though.

    Remember that although very few foreign skaters work with Russian coaches full-time, loads consult with them. Will consultations also not be allowed? That surely can't be enforced, especially when it happens outside Russia (in which case, Russian state resources aren't used).

    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    When you take the king's silver, you have to abide by the king's rules. *If* Russian government funds are subsidizing Russian coaches salaries and the rinks they work in, then it's not unreasonable for the Russian government to decree that said coaches work only with Russian skaters going into Sochi. JMHO.
    Yep. Correct me with I'm wrong but haven't all the rinks built recently (where conditions are absolutely incredible) built entirely from public funds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    So at least let Zhulin work with Pechalat/Bourzat. I thought they were being ousted to make place for I/K?
    Well if P/B are leaving for Krylova & Camerlengo, then this is a positive development, no?

    Zhulin is a decent coach but he has made some very bad program decisions IMO (P/B's last season's FD, I/K's this season's FD).

    As for I/K leaving to Shpilband and Zoueva, such decision would be very silly.

    And it's not just because I consider S&Z to be LUCIFER. As has been pointed out many times already, they have 34325436536 teams training with them.

    Two of those teams are World champions. One of those teams contains Marina's son. At least those three teams surely are going to be their priority.

    I/K are special talents and they deserve special attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I prefer the technique Zhulin teaches to the technique S/Z teach. Shpilband's teams are doing the tricks, but their overall quality is not as good as the Zhulin or Zazoui teams IMO. Virtue/Moir still throw a lot of snow off their blades and don't have that sweet edge quality that DelShoes and now Pechalat/Bourzat have IMO. Many of the other Shpilband teams have this problem and in addition are sloppy with their free legs and lines.
    AMEN!

    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Ah yes, the good old days when only the best skaters with the most wonderful qualities won medals. Not like these young whippersnappers today galloping across the ice on their toepicks kicking up snowstorms.
    Whilst you're obviously ironic, I definitely feel this way.

    If you replace "gimme 80s Madonna" with "gimme 80s Usova" and "gimme Banamarama" with "gimme Anissina," then this song shows perfectly how I feel about the current shocking state of Ice Dance:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_i8S05uUas

    DRAMA & mature expression > sickly sweet kids doing twizzles at 100kms per hour

    CoP has done wonders for Singles and Pairs IMO but in Ice Dance, whilst it results in huge technical advancement, the programs became what they are in singles: a series of technical elements.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 05-03-2011 at 11:39 PM.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Remember that although very few foreign skaters work with Russian coaches full-time, loads consult with them. Will consultations also not be allowed?
    Consultations will be allowed only if the Russian coach deliberately teaches his foreign student WRONG technique to sabotage said student's chances of beating any Russian rivals in Sochi.


  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Consultations will be allowed only if the Russian coach deliberately teaches his foreign student WRONG technique to sabotage said student's chances of beating any Russian rivals in Sochi.

    Well I don't think that Zvorygina/Bernadowski are exactly going to be rivals for any of the Russian dance teams so maybe nobody will mind them spending some time in Odintsovo.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Well I don't think that Zvorygina/Bernadowski are exactly going to be rivals for any of the Russian dance teams so maybe nobody will mind them spending some time in Odintsovo.
    In one of the interviews translated, one of the big guns (don't remember whom) was saying that Morozov would be able to keep training Ando and Amodio, who are actually big threats to Russian skaters. So probably lots of other exceptions will be made.

    Or maybe the Russian Fed. believes that Morozov would prefer going abroad to dropping Miki.

    As for Amodio, they must have imagined he's not a threat because he's so stupid. Probably he'll be 5th after the Olympic SP, decide he doesn't have a chance for a medal and strip in the middle of the ice to show he isn't old-fashioned and is going to transform figure skating. And that time he shall get a deduction.
    Last edited by Asli; 05-03-2011 at 11:54 PM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Or maybe the Russian Fed. believes that Morozov would prefer going abroad to dropping Miki.
    I think that's the case.

    Morozov is the hottest coach in single skating at the moment (which makes me but still ) and if the Russian Fed really wants him, they must realise that they are going to make some concessions for him. I mean he could easily get a job in any other country, if he wanted to.

    Although I'd be really glad if they forced Fernandez to get another coach.

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    Although I'd be really glad if they forced Fernandez to get another coach.
    well,I really hope Fernandez change coach as soon as possible...

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Although I'd be really glad if they forced Fernandez to get another coach.
    But he got 2 quads while under Morosov and is getting rather consistent with his effortless jumps.

    Style wise and politik wise he can definitely do better under a different coach, but Morosov is probably one of the best to guarantee consistency / results.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Yes, that is their weakness, but why should non-Russian experts (choreographers) help Russian skaters to medal?
    Because non-Russian experts have the wisdom to see that, in the end, it's all about those amazing skaters that work really, really hard and not about their federation new politics.

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