RSF forcing Russian coaches to coach only Russians until Sochi

[millipied]

I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.

Yeah, sure. And this championship just proved your point that event in Russia equals judging scandal.

[Ozzisk8tr]

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm a fan of the sport not which country the skaters are from. Some of the fans on here I'm not so keen on because of their ill will towards some skaters (depending on the country the skaters are from) however. I think the RSF's decision will make more people just go at them than think they are doing the right thing.

Oddly enough, majority of the Rachael hate comes from their own countrymen, likewise with the Alissa hate in the past. This being said though, I was honestly shocked and very appalled by some of the comments in the freedance thread last night. Some of those people should be very ashamed of what they were saying. I lost much respect for a couple of posters who I'd had respect for in the past. Some of it was (sort of)friendly jibing, but some was just nasty.

[equatorial]

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm a fan of the sport not which country the skaters are from. Some of the fans on here I'm not so keen on because of their ill will towards some skaters (depending on the country the skaters are from) however. I think the RSF's decision will make more people just go at them than think they are doing the right thing.

Oddly enough, majority of the Rachael hate comes from their own countrymen, likewise with the Alissa hate in the past. This being said though, I was honestly shocked and very appalled by some of the comments in the freedance thread last night. Some of those people should be very ashamed of what they were saying. I lost much respect for a couple of posters who I'd had respect for in the past. Some of it was (sort of)friendly jibing, but some was just nasty.

You should read some Russian FS boards where Russian posters bash Russian skaters left, right and centre Nowhere does Rachel hate come even close to that.

[Asli]

If the Russian fed would like to have Zoueva/Shpilband back, this is no way to entice them. Why should they give up their lucrative careers and drop the top ice dancers in the world just to return to Russia and train whomever the RFSF gives them for the next 3 years? I doubt Russia could pay them enough for that.

This new development has nothing to do with Zoueva/Shpilband. Shpilband would not even be a Russian citizen, since he defected to the USA during Soviet times. Not sure about Zoueva, but isn't she Canadian?

Russian skating is mainly funded by taxpayers' money. If I understand correctly, this rule concerns Russian coaches who receive a salary from the state, who use state or municipal facilities for free, whose successful students are funded and provided with free off-ice training, free lodging and other conditions that western skaters cannot dream of and who, as an extra source of income, take on foreign students. I understand that a state salary is not sufficient income for a top coach, but they also receive 30% of their Russian students' prize money, which wouldn't be the case with foreign students.

As for Morozov, he doesn't strike me as the charitable type, nor the nationalistic type, so surely he went to Russia because he was offered very good conditions. He was offered those conditions to prepare Russian skaters to Sochi. He can't have everything.

I'm sure no Russian coaches want to leave Russia until Sochi and this rule is valid only until then.

[Domshabfan]

I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.

Do you think because the competition is in Russia and if Russians don't like the result of an event (Like Plushy Vs Lysacek case ), Russians will create a huge scandal?, since support of local media is equally important, if not Plushenko would be walking around with a joint gold medal as well.

[Loves_Shizuka]

You should read some Russian FS boards where Russian posters bash Russian skaters left, right and centre Nowhere does Rachel hate come even close to that.

Ha, I know right. Also, in comparison to some other online sports forums, this place is positively tame. Not that I'm saying this is a good or bad thing.

[Gil-Galad]

aren't Morozov students training in Latvia ? If so, it would not affect them right?

I was thinking the same thing. Daugavpils is rather close to Russia (100km from the border I believe), lots of people speak Russian there - but it is still Latvia and therefore European Union. The question is if Morosov really wants to stay there or if he has / had any plans to move to Russia fromt there.

[englishman]

thats cool , thank you dude !

[hanca]

The Russian Federation can't say anything to Shpilbin and Zueva but they would like a top Russian dance team to train with them-and probably some team will move to S/Z after this season. However, I have the feeling that the Russian Federation would expect in that case S/Z to favor the Russian team over D/W,S/S, V/M, which probably won't happen.

Of course Shpilban and Zueva will favour a russian team. They have Khokhlova and Andreev, and he is Zoueva's son, so it would be surprising if this team wasn't high at her priority list. This year this team was only trying to gel, so the results were not there yet, but within a year I would expect Andreev to be unrecognisable.

[misskarne]

a lot of the Russian coaches do feel that a system that is based on getting training based on talent/ ability, vs paren'ts money is the one more likely to have success.

To be honest I think that's just common sense. Who knows how many potential OGMs are skating around unable to afford top-notch coaching in Western countries, while kids who are rubbish but have loaded parents get all the attention? I like the concept of anything that gives young athletes the same opportunities, regardless of $$$.

I once saw a girl - about 14 - who had the most incredible innate feel for skating that I'd ever seen. She was one of my coach's other students. She had six lessons, and in those six lessons she had things down pat smoothly that I'd been working on for months. After the sixth lesson, she left and I never saw her again. Not because she lost interest. In fact, having spoken to her several times, the ice was her real passion. She left because her family couldn't afford it. The six lessons were her birthday/Christmas present. Her parents simply could not afford the $$$ for her to keep skating. And yet there are kids at my rink who are still on the same basic stuff that they were six months ago and frustrate their coaches enormously, but they keep coming back because the parents are loaded.

*

I must say, I'm doing a lot of this: at all the "OMG russia will cause jduging skandal!!11!!" comments in this thread. Puh-lease. They're strengthening in every discipline in every way before the Olympics. And they're not about to throw THEIR home Olympics into disgrace by trying anything on the judges. It's likely they will be capable of winning medals on their own.


Besides, people in this thread are acting like the Russians are the only ones who've ever manipulated judges...or did most of you not watch Skate Canada?

[hanca]

I must say, I'm doing a lot of this: at all the "OMG russia will cause jduging skandal!!11!!" comments in this thread. Puh-lease. They're strengthening in every discipline in every way before the Olympics. And they're not about to throw THEIR home Olympics into disgrace by trying anything on the judges. It's likely they will be capable of winning medals on their own.

Besides, people in this thread are acting like the Russians are the only ones who've ever manipulated judges...or did most of you not watch Skate Canada?

[kia_4EverOnIce]

I agree with the "if Frank Carroll left US for Russia, what would American be saying now?" argument

I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.

yeah....just because with the Olympics in US there weren't any scandals? or with Vancouver last year (about Canadian men and pairs)?

To be honest I think that's just common sense. Who knows how many potential OGMs are skating around unable to afford top-notch coaching in Western countries, while kids who are rubbish but have loaded parents get all the attention? I like the concept of anything that gives young athletes the same opportunities, regardless of $$$.

I must say, I'm doing a lot of this: at all the "OMG russia will cause jduging skandal!!11!!" comments in this thread. Puh-lease. They're strengthening in every discipline in every way before the Olympics. And they're not about to throw THEIR home Olympics into disgrace by trying anything on the judges. It's likely they will be capable of winning medals on their own.

exactly, if Russian Fed put on good offers that Russian coaches accept, and do the most helping their talents grow up and be ready for home Olympics, what's wrong? They're only doing a very good work, and preparing their team at best, as any Fed is supposed to do.

[Fashionista]

The question is if Morosov really wants to stay there or if he has / had any plans to move to Russia fromt there.

It's official his new training base will be Novogorsk. He'll spend summer in the US and Latvia and then resettle in Moscow.

[BigB08822]

Yeah, sure. And this championship just proved your point that event in Russia equals judging scandal.

It is just a gut feeling but i didn't say a WORD about this world championships so I have no idea what that means.

[Civic]

When you take the king's silver, you have to abide by the king's rules. *If* Russian government funds are subsidizing Russian coaches salaries and the rinks they work in, then it's not unreasonable for the Russian government to decree that said coaches work only with Russian skaters going into Sochi. JMHO.

[Thais]

The awakening of Russian interest in figure skating is a very good thing for this nation. It led up to a hole new generation of great skaters (I still can't believe how impressive the Russian dance couples are). However, I don't think Russian choreographers are what they used to be. I look at the north American dancers and they all have a different approach to ice dancing, one that is so different from the Russians. I know Zoueva and Shpilband are/were Russian, but they've built a style that is completely different form the Russian style. Furthermore, north American and non-Russian choreographer, in general, have shown new and better ways of expression on ice.

In my opinion, the weakest point of Russian skaters is choreography and the next step (IMO), in order for Russia to have a powerful team at Sochi, is to have more non-Russian experts involved in the training process of their athletes.

I'm a huge fan of Russian skating and I would hate to see all these amazing skaters stuck in another era, which is what will happen if they don't open themselves to a more up-to-date and less classical approach. It's time for something different even for Russian skaters.
This is why I believe that this new policy of close doors will isolate the Russian athletes and, in the end, will only harm them.

[quiqie]

From Piseev interview:

- Lately, we hear that the Russian coaches should concentrate on working with Russian skaters. But we have a lot of young skaters, and they need strong "sparring partners". What to do?

- We need strong athletes to look up to, I agree.

- Well, if the French champions Nathalie Pechalat - Fabien Bourzat leave Zhulin, who would Ilinykh — Katsalapov train with? By the way, after the European Championships it was made clear that French sportsmen, as foreigners, couldn't live in the Olympic training centre in Novogorsk, and only intervention of Russian Deputy Minister of Sports Yuri Nagornykh helped to solve the issue.

- Everything should be done reasonably. You can't rush from one extreme to another. And the question is not whether to expel [them from the group] or not. In each case we must consider the expediency. If our athletes benefit from [training together], then the foreigners should stay and train. If it is contrary to our interests, then something needs to be changed.

I agree that French couple was an example for Ilinykh - Katsalapov, but perhaps now that role could be taken by other athletes, Canadians or Americans, for example. The principle is that our Russian coaches must work with our athletes. Everything else should be subordinated to this work.

- How can it be achieved in case of Marina Zueva and Igor Shpilband? It is hard to imagine that they would put aside the Canadians and Americans to work with Yana Khokhlova and Fedor Andreev.

- We have expectations for Khokhlova - Andreev. In this case, you should take into account the fact that Fedor is Marina's son. Therefore, work is work, money is money, but there are still some moments that will probably let her pay more attention to this couple.

- Won't this situation make Zhulin and Morozov take their students and go abroad?

- I think they are interested in working with with Russian skaters. For example, we will not object if Miki Ando or Florent Amodio stay with Nikolai Morozov. As for the rest of his students, again, we have to act in accordance with our interests.

The translation here

[hanca]

I'm a huge fan of Russian skating and I would hate to see all these amazing skaters stuck in another era, which is what will happen if they don't open themselves to a more up-to-date and less classical approach. It's time for something different even for Russian skaters.
This is why I believe that this new policy of close doors will isolate the Russian athletes and, in the end, will only harm them.

Closing doors does not seem to hurt Chineese pair skaters. they have built their pair program from nothing, without any influence of the experts from other countries.

[millipied]

There are plenty of great and successful under COP Russian choreographers- Tcherneshov, Petukhov, Morozov, Krylova, Zhulin, Platov,Tarasova etc. The problem is that some coaches, like Mishin, feel that they know enough about choreography.
I would hate to see 100s of "North American" style clones on ice just because Zuevas and Wilsons are "IT choreographers" for some fans and judges. The beauty of this sport is in diversity and differences.

[Andrushka]

[QUOTE=misskarne;3166355]

*
I must say, I'm doing a lot of this: at all the "OMG russia will cause jduging skandal!!11!!" comments in this thread. Puh-lease. They're strengthening in every discipline in every way before the Olympics. And they're not about to throw THEIR home Olympics into disgrace by trying anything on the judges. It's likely they will be capable of winning medals on their own.


Besides, people in this thread are acting like the Russians are the only ones who've ever manipulated judges...or did most of you not watch Skate Canada?

Thankyou!