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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita
    ^ this.
    See, we will agree on everything soon
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    He could do an Amodio style dance break to give himself time to get his breathe back.
    It takes a lot more energy than a Plushenko style posing.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    If Midori and Plushenko had kids.. the kids might be able to a quad axel.
    LOL what a silly question! Unless the skater is bionic...sure, he/she will be throwing 4Lz+3Lo or 4A+4T left and right...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    See, we will agree on everything soon
    I know! Isnt it worryinG?

    It takes a lot more energy than a Plushenko style posing.
    have you forGotten Plu CrGbs of his youth?

  4. #44
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    Actually, the way COP is set up, there's very little incentive to do a brutally hard/impossible combo like a 4t-4t or 3A-4T

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    Plushenko has said 4t-4t is impossible, not only the combo itself (i m sure he has tried all kind of sick combos in practice) but to add it in a program, he said you need 20 - 30 seconds to come back to normal breathing and proceed your skate.
    This is why I'd like to see a competition (or competition segment) for isolated jumps outside the context of a program.

    That would be a much more practical format in which to encourage skaters to push the envelope with rotations and combos that take too much out of them to perform in the middle (beginning) of a fully loaded competitive freeskate.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    It's not the same to try it after knee injury at 28 when you don't need it to win, and try it at 16, when healthy and newbie at senior level.
    When you don't need it to win? I may not like Chan, but I can accept that he's turning into a bloody good skater and if he can land that 4T consistently without turning into human Zamboni he will be a threat to Plushenko.

    I don't blame Plushenko for rolling out every weapon in his arsenal to stay at the top. In fact, it makes it more fun. Everyone thinks they're getting close to even with him in the jump department...BANG, he raises the bar again.

    He knows he needs the giant TES scores because he'll never get the sort of PCS that Chan gets. He could put in every transition in existence, have the most beautiful choreo ever made, interpret it perfectly, and he'd never get the PCS scores that Chan does. There's nothing wrong with him trying to compensate for his PCS with his TES.

    So while I do fret about his knee somewhat, if he wants to push the jumps to another level and throw down the gauntlet to the others, why not. Go right ahead! It will be fabulous!

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    This is why I'd like to see a competition (or competition segment) for isolated jumps outside the context of a program.

    That would be a much more practical format in which to encourage skaters to push the envelope with rotations and combos that take too much out of them to perform in the middle (beginning) of a fully loaded competitive freeskate.
    There used to be a pro competition like that. I think it was called Top Jump? It would be freaking awesome to see all the combos busted out.

    On the subject of combos, I'd love to see Plushenko return his 3A-.5Lo-3F!

  8. #48

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    I think if anyone could do a 4toe/4toe it would be Chan. His 4toe is about as easy as they come and his landings are lighter than Plushenkos so I feel he carries his momentum into the next jump better than anyone else.

    That being said, I would never work on it. Just do two separate quads if you want 2 quads in the program. It probably is not worth the few extra points to do them together and of course your chances of getting them verified are pretty slim. It might be worth it some day if the ISU ever comes to their senses and gives the 2nd jump in combinations a higher factoring.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    When you don't need it to win? I may not like Chan, but I can accept that he's turning into a bloody good skater and if he can land that 4T consistently without turning into human Zamboni he will be a threat to Plushenko.
    What are you talking about ? I was talking about last season for Vancouver.
    The video of 3A/4T by Plushenko dates back to 2009. Chan wasn't doing two quads in his LP at this time. In 2009, #1 and #2 at Worlds were quadless.
    And do you really believe that Plushenko will be back anytime soon with a 3A/4T, with the hope of beating Chan ?

  10. #50
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    ^ does anyone have hope to beat Chan after these Worlds?

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    And do you really believe that Plushenko will be back anytime soon with a 3A/4T, with the hope of beating Chan ?
    Yes, yes, and yes.

    Plushenko is coming back. This has been verified many, many, many times by the ISU, the RFS, and Plushenko himself. I am sick to death of repeating myself. When will people get it through their thick skulls that he was not banned for life?

    I'm sure if he is capable of doing it, he will try the 3A-4T in competition. And why not? He wants to win, he wants to be the best, and if it means raising the bar a few notches higher, so be it.

    The fact that that 3A-4T attempt is from 2009, when he was out of shape and in a fair amount of pain, only makes it much more impressive in my eyes.

    Plushenko is in great shape at the moment, training hard, and working on his new competition programs, to be debuted at a show this month (or next, translation wasn't 100% clear on the date). He's remastered his 4S, and apparently is just about there with his 4Lo and 4Lz. He's been working with new choreographers, including Zhulin and a ballet dancer, and has fixed some of the problems haters like to pick on, including the height of his sit spin.

    He's going to be 100% competitive this season, he's going to take the fight to Chan, and he's going to love every second of it.

  12. #52
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    I don't think the question was if he was banned for life. I think the question is will he choose to come back still.

    Has he ever landed the 4S in competition?

    Meanwhile, Chan's going to seriously start practicing both the 4F and 4Lz. He says he'll wait until he has an 80% success rate with either before putting them in a program.

  13. #53
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    According to Mishin, Gachinsky plans to add 2nd quad in his LP and it is going to be 4Loop. http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s.../95108372.html

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post

    Has he ever landed the 4S in competition?
    yes ratified one, Russia Cup series before the Olympics in Torino.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes.

    Plushenko is coming back. This has been verified many, many, many times by the ISU, the RFS, and Plushenko himself. I am sick to death of repeating myself. When will people get it through their thick skulls that he was not banned for life?

    I'm sure if he is capable of doing it, he will try the 3A-4T in competition. And why not? He wants to win, he wants to be the best, and if it means raising the bar a few notches higher, so be it.
    I know he is not banned for life. I doubt he'll be back, that's it. But you seem so sure. With time, I get the feeling that you are Plushenko himself...

    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    yes ratified one, Russia Cup series before the Olympics in Torino.
    Really ? Plushenko ? 2005 Cup of Russia ? I have just checked protocols, and no 4Sal :

    1 4T+3T 13.0 0.80 2 1 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 1 - - 13.80
    2 3Lz 6.0 1.40 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 - - 7.40
    3 3Lo 5.0 1.40 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 - - 6.40
    4 3A 7.5 1.60 2 1 2 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 - - 9.10
    5 3Lz+2T 7.3 -0.20 0 7.10 1 0 0 -1 0 0 0 -1 0 - - 7.10
    6 3A+COMBO 7.5 -2.00 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -1 -2 -2 -2 -1 - 5.50
    7 2T 1.3 0.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - 1.30
    8 3F 6.1x -0.20 0 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 -1 0 - - 5.90
    9 CCoSp1 2.0 0.40 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 -1 0 - - 2.40
    10 CiSt1 1.8 0.80 1 1 2 2 0 2 1 1 2 1 - - 2.60
    11 3S* 0.0 0.00 1 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 - - 0.00
    12 FCSp3 2.3 0.50 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 2 0 1 - - 2.80
    13 SlSt2 2.3 0.70 1 1 2 2 0 2 0 0 2 1 - - 3.00
    14 FSSp3 2.3 0.10 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 - - 2.40
    15 CCoSp1 2.0 0.80 1 2 1 1 0 2 0 2 2 1 - - 2.80

  16. #56
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    Yes but I said Russia Cup series, not Cup of Russia. September, Sarmanka I think, cant spell the city!
    You were sure Plushenko wouldnt be back for Vancouver alsoI think he came back to pick on you!

  17. #57

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    I didn't think they meant the official COR of 2005 but rather one of the Russian competitions also called Cup of Russia

    ETA - I knew it!

    Also Gachinski said his 3 loop issues came from practicing 4 loops.

  18. #58
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    Patrick recently said he's going to start practicing a 4f and/or 4lz, though he won't include it until it's 80%. He said that he was motivated by Dai's attempts at the 4f. With the height and ease of his jumps, I could see Patrick having one of the above in a competitive program within the next two years, especially if he keeps improving his content difficulty like he has been. It's insane to think that just one year ago he didn't have a quad. Now he lands 3 in competition, and it's probably his best jump.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    ...
    He knows he needs the giant TES scores because he'll never get the sort of PCS that Chan gets. He could put in every transition in existence, have the most beautiful choreo ever made, interpret it perfectly, and he'd never get the PCS scores that Chan does. There's nothing wrong with him trying to compensate for his PCS with his TES....
    This drives me nuts! IF Plushenko (and that is a very big IF) were have choreo like Chan's and IF he was to skate it like Chan, I see no reason why he wouldn't get the PCS marks. It is not as if he has ever been held down in the PCS department. That fact is that Plushenko didn't skate like that last year so he didn't earn the marks.

    Let's stop perpetuating a myth that poor Plushenko's marks are held down in any way, shape or form!
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

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