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  1. #1
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    Sequence vs Combo

    Not sure if you already addressed this (I looked through old threads but couldn't find it). I was wondering now that 1/2 loop is classified as a "jump," is "jump-1/2 loop-jump" now considered a combo or is it still a sequence? If it is a combo, can anyone suggest an "acceptable" sequence? (one foot waltz-1/2flip-waltz?)???

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    What about any jump, then a little hop (similar to mazurka jump) and axel...
    Last edited by hanca; 04-16-2011 at 10:11 AM.

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    What purpose do you need the definition for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    now that 1/2 loop is classified as a "jump," is "jump-1/2 loop-jump" now considered a combo or is it still a sequence?
    In a competition judged by IJS, it would be considered a three-jump combo.

    In other contexts, it might meet definitions for either or both of sequence and combo.

    If it is a combo, can anyone suggest an "acceptable" sequence? (one foot waltz-1/2flip-waltz?)???
    Again, what's the context? In IJS competition none of those half-jumps count as listed jumps, so it would just be connecting moves. If you changed the waltz jumps to axels, it would probably count as a sequence, but I'm not sure about whether a step from the landing of the 1/2 flip to the takeoff of the axel would make a difference -- that's a picky question for a technical specialist.

    If you're talking about a context other than IJS competition, then the definitions are looser and either of what you've mentioned would probably satisfy what's required.

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    Well, got to thinking... If it is a 3 jump combo, then what would be an acceptable sequence? (Because a one foot jump is not technically a jump.) When 1/2 loop is taken out of the equation, I could not even come up with a sequence in my head. It's just kind of a picky, technical geeky question that has been bugging me....

    What about any jump, then the hop a little hop (similar to mazurka jump) and axel.
    Thanks, hanca. So, like flip-mazurka-axel (waltz)....Interesting.... I like it!!!! gkelly would this work?

    Also, how many jumps are usually in an ice sequence? Is there a limit like only 3 in a combo?
    Last edited by Firefly123; 04-16-2011 at 04:41 AM. Reason: fixed sentence, added question

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    Thanks, hanca. So, like flip-mazurka-axel (waltz)....Interesting.... I like it!!!! gkelly would this work?
    I think so.

    Also, how many jumps are usually in an ice sequence? Is there a limit like only 3 in a combo?
    Again, if you're thinking in terms of IJS, there need to be at least two listed jumps (singles or higher, not waltz jumps), if there are more than two listed jumps the two highest value ones get scored, and there are strict limits on what can happen on the ice in between the jump (steps or turns).

    Some examples would just count as a solo jump with unlisted jumps before and/or after as connecting moves. Other examples that have a turn on the ice between the jumps would count as two separate jump passes.

    But in a 6.0 context, the definition wouldn't be that picky.

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    Savchenko and Szolkowy were using this season toe loop/ that little hop / toe loop. I know that there was something in the rules about three turns being or not being allowed in jump sequence and don't remember what exactly the rule was, but Savchenko and Szolkowy used this this season and it counted, so it should be correct according to the new rules in IJS marking (even though the second toe loop has a three turn as a part of the toe loop).

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    Savchenko and Szolkowy were using this season toe loop/ that little hop / toe loop. I know that there was something in the rules about three turns being or not being allowed in jump sequence and don't remember what exactly the rule was, but Savchenko and Szolkowy used this this season and it counted,
    Thanks for the info. Yes, I see it at 1:00 mark. http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh4QyzcgJMI&feature=related

    Some examples would just count as a solo jump with unlisted jumps before and/or after as connecting moves. Other examples that have a turn on the ice between the jumps would count as two separate jump passes.
    Yes, that is what I was trying to figure out. If one takes a "strict" interpretation of the rules,I'm not sure what would be made of:

    axel-loop-1/2loop-sal
    split jump-toe-mazurka-axel

    flip-mazurka-axel (but would have to put down opposite foot for takeoff. Mazurka would be L toe to RFI. Need to put down LFO for takeoff. So that is an extra step.) ????

    I think these are sequences....Right?

    What purpose do you need the definition for?
    I want to do something on Combos & Sequences, but need to come up with some examples of sequences.

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    S/S probably hop the 3 turn into the second toe. Most sequences now involve axels on the end (you can do the side toe hop or just step into them) or a flying 3 turn. For example, any listed jump/side toe hop/flying 3 turn/toe loop

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    Quote Originally Posted by toronto_skater View Post
    S/S probably hop the 3 turn into the second toe.
    No, they don't. They do the hop and after that normal three turn which is a part of the second toe loop. Look at youtube (this year's FS)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post

    axel-loop-1/2loop-sal
    split jump-toe-mazurka-axel

    flip-mazurka-axel (but would have to put down opposite foot for takeoff. Mazurka would be L toe to RFI. Need to put down LFO for takeoff. So that is an extra step.) ????

    I think these are sequences....Right?
    I am not a tech spec, but I do think that axel-loop-1/2loop-sal is combination and wouldn't be allowed because maximum jumps in combination you are allowed is three. 1/2 loop is now counted as loop, so this would actually be axel-loop-loop-Sal.

    The other two you wrote above are sequences (I think).

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    Thanks!

    I guess since sequences don't get as many points as combos most skaters don't really do them because they're not worth it. I will try a few for fun...

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    Here's a fun one: Split jump/Flip/Toe-Loop or Loop. I also like Quarter Flip (I think it was a quarter.... maybe 1/2... can't remember...)/Mohawk to Flip/Toe-Loop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    Here's a fun one: Split jump/Flip/Toe-Loop or Loop. I also like Quarter Flip (I think it was a quarter.... maybe 1/2... can't remember...)/Mohawk to Flip/Toe-Loop.
    That's not a sequence, that's a combination. (the split jump would be probably counted as difficult entry - positive GOE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    That's not a sequence, that's a combination. (the split jump would be probably counted as difficult entry - positive GOE)
    Interesting... I thought since the split was a half jump that it could be counted as a sequence. But I guess what you are saying is that the split would not be considered part of the sequence, just an entry to the flip/toe combo? IJS is certainly confusing and it really is worth a skater's while to have a tech specialist look at their program to clarify things like this. I wonder then, would this count as a sequence under 6.0?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    Interesting... I thought since the split was a half jump that it could be counted as a sequence.
    It is a half-rotation jump, but AFAIK it's not listed as a jump in the IJS rules, and therefore it officially doesn't exist Same problem with the walley. Either one would count as a connecting move but not as a jump.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    Interesting... I thought since the split was a half jump that it could be counted as a sequence.
    You have there two (full) jumps after each other (without any half jump or turns or anything else between them), which means that it is combination. Split jump wouldn't be counted as a jump but as a difficult entry. But, if you had Full jump, then the half jump and then full jump, then it would be jump sequence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    I also like Quarter Flip (I think it was a quarter.... maybe 1/2... can't remember...)/Mohawk to Flip/Toe-Loop.
    Never heard about Quarter Flip. That would mean landing sideways! Good for tearing your meniscus.

    1/2 flip - Mohawk-flip-toe loop is also combination. The half flip-Mohawk will be counted as difficult entrance (preceeding steps) if you are lucky, so the markable jumps are just flip-toe loop

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Never heard about Quarter Flip. That would mean landing sideways! Good for tearing your meniscus.

    1/2 flip - Mohawk-flip-toe loop is also combination. The half flip-Mohawk will be counted as difficult entrance (preceeding steps) if you are lucky, so the markable jumps are just flip-toe loop
    The quarter flip actually does exist. It lands somewhat like a ballet hop - take off and landing on same foot.

    From http://www.skatejournal.com/jump.html:

    Quarter Flip
    A quarter flip jump only involves at most a half turn in the air. Like the flip jump, the quarter-flip takes off from a LBI edge assisted by vaulting with the right toe pick. Common preparatory steps include a LFO3 or mohawk. After completing the rotation, the skater lands on his right toe pick (the same foot used for vaulting) facing forward then pushes off onto a LFI edge. Since the quarter-flip vaults and lands on the same foot, it is useful for introducing students to the full rotation flip jump.

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    So what is the difference between a quarter fip and half flip?

    They both start from a LBI edge assisted by vaulting with the right toe pick, rotate 1/2 revolution then land forward on a toe pick and pushing on FI edge. I really can't see any difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    So what is the difference between a quarter fip and half flip?

    They both start from a LBI edge assisted by vaulting with the right toe pick, rotate 1/2 revolution then land forward on a toe pick and pushing on FI edge. I really can't see any difference.
    The half-flip takes off and lands on opposite feet. So, if you pick with your right, you land forward on your left. Weird, I know, that the quarter is called "quarter", but there it is.

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