View Poll Results: Better skater- Yamaguchi or Yu Na Kim
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I like this !
Originally Posted by Aceon6
But honestly, YuNa Kim skates with so much speed, it's impressive to watch her live. I think her basic skating is amazing, and probably better than Kristi.
- Rep Power
i don't know why i got the impression that if yeonah only truly deeply cared about pointing her toes, she could. but kristi can't skate with yeonah's speed no matter how much she practices and pushes. not that i believe kristi made a real effort to race around the rink-- in those days it wasn't imperative to, as an amateur or pro.
what i saw as effortful (and later, more 'natural' with additional experience) was kristi's attempt to ooze pheremones as a sexpot in stars on ice. that kind of emoting yeonah does way more naturally and easily.
i'm not saying yeonah SHOULD care more about pointing her toes--even though it would please me greatly if she should begin to, starting at this year's worlds. i'm not saying kristi isn't the consummate pro and wasn't very polished at the end, right down to the requisite butt-wiggling. i just often get this impression of 'effort' when i see kristi. that's admirable too--don't we whine all the time about skaters who don't get more out of their talent? but i happen to prefer skaters like ekaterina gordeeva who can make most things (except jumps) look effortless so i will vote for yeonah.
Awww ok, so neither is really your cup of tea I guess.
Originally Posted by floskate
I think both skaters are fabulous, but I think Kristi has the edge.
The fact that Kristi's 1992 technical content would have made her competitive in the 2010 Olympics is truly amazing. I can't think of any other OGM other than Brian Boitano who had technical content in their Olympic season that would have still been competitive 18 years later.
Kristi's technical content in 1992 was impressive, but the height she got on her jumps was not. She jumped about as high as Lipinski, and even Lipinski may have been better in that regard. Kristi's spins were pretty standard, too, and I've always found her artistry sterile. I adore her off-ice personality and stint on DWTS, but because of the reasons I just gave, Kristi's never been a skater whose performances I've had to constantly rewatch.
I'd hate to be in tandem with the deranged Yunabots on anything, but IMO Yu-Na eclipses Kristi in every way skating-wise. As far as their competitive records go, I'd say they're pretty much even with Kristi having a slight edge because of her extra World title. Kristi will probably lose that advantage before this month is over, though.
True. Kat was another one who wasn't a particularly graceful skater. But she was a steely competitor.
Originally Posted by orbitz
I wish I had heard that...Calmat is a Canadian sportscaster?
Originally Posted by briancoogaert
Originally Posted by Rex
And they both did triple lutz triple toe
Agreed. And YuNa is also one of the most musical skater.
Originally Posted by briancoogaert
This poll fails.
This poll is like comparing Tiger Woods to Fred Couples. Or Kobe Bryant to Reggie Miller. Or Peyton Manning to Phil Simms.
- Rep Power
Originally Posted by Shaia
i'm guessing yeonah is p manning? the more modern one, right?
is phil simms in the hall of fame? i think yamaguchi is a bit closer to yeonah than phil simms is to peyton manning.
Don't forget YuNa was injured in 2007 and 2008. In 2008, she definitely would have won if she had been healthy. I am not so sure about 2007, because she lacked stamina then and it was in Toyko.
Originally Posted by miki88
Anyway, I think the two defeats drove YuNa to be a stronger and better skater and we saw the result in 2009 and 2010 (Oly).
Your statement proves something about "YuNabots". There are so many YuNabots but you don't hear Mao bashing or criticism.
Originally Posted by judgejudy27
Last edited by lakewood; 04-23-2011 at 08:36 AM.
Originally Posted by lakewood
Though I've always admired Kristi's two triple-lutz LPs (including the difficult 3lutz/3toe combo), I've never been a fan of her overall skating, and thought the extremely high artistic impression marks that she received were laughable. And yes, I know marks are relative.
Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov
Originally Posted by RockTheTassel
Originally Posted by olympic
Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe
ITA with the above viewpoints, particularly Carmen O's post. Also, definitely agree that Kristi was not necessarily exciting to watch as a skater, but she was pretty, pleasing to watch, and an overall complete skater in her era. She worked at doing all the jumps, even her weak 3sal (which btw was weak because of the difficulty of transitioning to doing that jump as a singles skater when she was used to being thrown into the air by Rudy G, which helped her on the perhaps more difficult for her 3sal edge takeoff). ITA that Kristi improved her skating during her years as a pro, and she also developed her flirty, seductive side, but that comes with maturity and life experience. She was absolutely the bomb with Mark Ballas on DWTS. Kristi's secret weapon was her pro ice career experience and her years of working with a partner on the ice, so it was not new for her on the dance floor -- she and Mark really connected and had fun.
Originally Posted by Robeye
I loved Midori Ito, and I think she doesn't get enough credit for what she could do and tried to improve upon in the artistry/ lyrical aspects of her skating. Ito = phenomenal jumper who upped the ante. There's still no one like her because she brought the beautiful strength of her gracious personality and joyful spirit to the ice as well. Of course Miki Ando also has phenomenal jumps, but lacks in on-ice personality, artistry, and ability to connect with the audience. I don't include MK in this context because she is incomparable in what she has accomplished in total as a skater and a person. SOme have cited MK as not having high jumps, but she possessed such technical purity in every aspect of her skating, consistency, grace, courage, and such indefinable qualities of magic and connection to the audience that there is no comparison. MK set a standard for her generation that I doubt anyone will surpass in our lifetimes.
No, YuNa is not a better skater than MK either. YuNa has simply followed in Michelle's blade tracks, and she still has a lot of work to do. Like Robeye, I am very interested in seeing how YuNa might have improved in her lines since working with Peter Oppegard and Karen Kwan Oppegard. Personally, I think that one of Michelle Kwan's secret weapons has been her sister, Karen.
Yes, very long arms and legs but she knows how to use them. Lack of speed and good but not great jumps, are overshadowed by her beautiful lines, elegance, unteachable grace, and an effortless, ethereal/ spiritual quality that shows her personality and connects with the audience.
Combine the qualities exhibited in these clips with the speed, ice coverage, and jumping ability that YuNa already possesses, and ... Wow! If Peter and Karen at least get YuNa to point her feet, that will be a huge improvement. I think YuNa has the capacity to continue to improve on her weaknesses: her innate reserved personality, poor spirals and spins, poor lines, leaving out the 3loop, to actually live up to her premature title of Queen YuNa, one of the greats.
Alain Calmat was a french skater, 3 European titles, the World title in 1965 and an Olympic silver medal in 1964.
Originally Posted by Rex
He also was a famous judge (1980 Olympics, IIRC) and was a surgeon.
His sentence was about the SP in Albertville. He wopuld have had Tonya Harding ahead of Midori Ito : "Harding attempted a 3 Axel, more difficult than the Lutz combo, and she is more artistic than Ito" (IIRC).
I wouldn't consider either one very artistic, but both had natural charisma. As amateurs, I found Tonya and Midori more exciting to watch than Kristi.
Originally Posted by briancoogaert
I know right?
Originally Posted by ponta1
Last edited by miki88; 04-23-2011 at 10:57 PM.
(I'd forgotten that Kristi fell on the triple loop, and then doubled the salchow-- great choreography and competent skating, but not close to the way MK makes audiences feel. Better lines, spin positions and steadier spirals than YuNa, but at this point Kristi had not fully developed as a person or an artist -- she was obviously the favorite)
(missed first 3axel, landed the second; maybe some don't find her body type pleasing, but nonetheless, she has graceful arms, good positions, amazing jumps, and better spirals than YuNa -- this was pre-high leg spirals of Bobek, Kwan, and Cohen -- can't stand the condescending comments by Scott and sidekick)
(beautiful music/choreo and execution -- a more mature performance than Kristi's, plus YuNa by 2010 had improved her spins and spirals, and she was on for this performance. This is the BBC version as I couldn't stand Scott as usual -- he actually said in his opening comments that YuNa has no weaknesses. NOT TRUE -- she has lots of areas for improvement, esp. the ubiquitous lack of pointing her feet. I'm eagerly anticipating upcoming Worlds)
Must add that YuNa has had the benefit of skating in Michelle Kwan's wake; something that Kristi did not have. And yes, different eras, different judging systems ... lots of variables.
Judges' Scores for the 1992 Olympics Ladies Short Program
Originally Posted by duane
Seven judges ranked her sole first for Artistic Impression, one had her tied with Kerrigan, and one had her tied with Ito.
Judges' Scores for the 1992 Olympics Ladies' Free Skate
One judge ranked her second behind Ito for Artistic Impression, and the others had her first.
N.B.: The columns for the first and second mark are incorrectly labeled on the webpage. "TM" should be "AI" and vice versa.
Her rivals for that second mark (for one or both of the programs) included Ito, Harding, Kerrigan, Hubert, Bonaly, Chen, and Sato. The last two of these weren't at the artistic peaks yet and the others, were never particularly renowned for mastering the second mark.
Yamaguchi's Artistic Impression marks don't seem laughable to me.
If you want something to laugh at, consider the Artistic Impression marks the French judge (#4) gave for the skaters below Yamaguchi.
Kristi Yamaguchi 5.9
Surya Bonaly 5.8
Midori Ito 5.7
Tonya Harding 5.7
Nancy Kerrigan 5.6
Yuka Sato 5.5
Chen Lu 5.4
Marina Kielmann 5.4
Last edited by Vagabond; 04-24-2011 at 03:44 AM.
Reason: To add in the reference to the misplaced labels on the columns