Better skater- Yamaguchi or Yu Na Kim

[briancoogaert]

Basic skating, edges and musicality - Kristi.
Jumps and spins - Yu Na.
It's a tie for me

I like this !
But honestly, YuNa Kim skates with so much speed, it's impressive to watch her live. I think her basic skating is amazing, and probably better than Kristi.

[skfan]

i don't know why i got the impression that if yeonah only truly deeply cared about pointing her toes, she could. but kristi can't skate with yeonah's speed no matter how much she practices and pushes. not that i believe kristi made a real effort to race around the rink-- in those days it wasn't imperative to, as an amateur or pro.

what i saw as effortful (and later, more 'natural' with additional experience) was kristi's attempt to ooze pheremones as a sexpot in stars on ice. that kind of emoting yeonah does way more naturally and easily.

i'm not saying yeonah SHOULD care more about pointing her toes--even though it would please me greatly if she should begin to, starting at this year's worlds. i'm not saying kristi isn't the consummate pro and wasn't very polished at the end, right down to the requisite butt-wiggling. i just often get this impression of 'effort' when i see kristi. that's admirable too--don't we whine all the time about skaters who don't get more out of their talent? but i happen to prefer skaters like ekaterina gordeeva who can make most things (except jumps) look effortless so i will vote for yeonah.

[judgejudy27]

It's hard to decide when one is completely ambivalent about both

Awww ok, so neither is really your cup of tea I guess.

[mikemba]

I think both skaters are fabulous, but I think Kristi has the edge.

The fact that Kristi's 1992 technical content would have made her competitive in the 2010 Olympics is truly amazing. I can't think of any other OGM other than Brian Boitano who had technical content in their Olympic season that would have still been competitive 18 years later.

[mrinalini]

Kristi's technical content in 1992 was impressive, but the height she got on her jumps was not. She jumped about as high as Lipinski, and even Lipinski may have been better in that regard. Kristi's spins were pretty standard, too, and I've always found her artistry sterile. I adore her off-ice personality and stint on DWTS, but because of the reasons I just gave, Kristi's never been a skater whose performances I've had to constantly rewatch.

I'd hate to be in tandem with the deranged Yunabots on anything, but IMO Yu-Na eclipses Kristi in every way skating-wise. As far as their competitive records go, I'd say they're pretty much even with Kristi having a slight edge because of her extra World title. Kristi will probably lose that advantage before this month is over, though.

[Rex]

You don't have to be graceful in figure skating to be fans favorites. Look at Katerina Witt.

True. Kat was another one who wasn't a particularly graceful skater. But she was a steely competitor.

You are not the only one, and I share your opinion.
And In Albertville, Alain Calmat said that Tonya Harding was more artistic than Midori Ito...lol

I wish I had heard that...Calmat is a Canadian sportscaster?

[Vagabond]

Calmat is a Canadian sportscaster?

No.

[Macassar88]

And they both did triple lutz triple toe

[lakewood]

I like this !
But honestly, YuNa Kim skates with so much speed, it's impressive to watch her live. I think her basic skating is amazing, and probably better than Kristi.

Agreed. And YuNa is also one of the most musical skater.

[Shaia]

This poll fails.

This poll is like comparing Tiger Woods to Fred Couples. Or Kobe Bryant to Reggie Miller. Or Peyton Manning to Phil Simms.

[skfan]

This poll fails.

This poll is like comparing Tiger Woods to Fred Couples. Or Kobe Bryant to Reggie Miller. Or Peyton Manning to Phil Simms.

i'm guessing yeonah is p manning? the more modern one, right?

is phil simms in the hall of fame? i think yamaguchi is a bit closer to yeonah than phil simms is to peyton manning.

[lakewood]

I think only the last two Worlds were really hers to lose. 2007 and 2008 Worlds were a lot less clear cut. And I actually think Mao had the edge in 2007. In 2008, they were about even. Yuna made two major jump errors in 2008. While Mao also made two, because an UR is counted as a major error.

Don't forget YuNa was injured in 2007 and 2008. In 2008, she definitely would have won if she had been healthy. I am not so sure about 2007, because she lacked stamina then and it was in Toyko.

Anyway, I think the two defeats drove YuNa to be a stronger and better skater and we saw the result in 2009 and 2010 (Oly).

I could be wrong on that of course but it seems alot of fans say things like "Yu Na is great but she is overscored" or "there are so many YuNa bots" (I am not saying I feel that way) while say things about Mao like "I just love her skating" or "she deserves more credit for those triple axels" etc.

Your statement proves something about "YuNabots". There are so many YuNabots but you don't hear Mao bashing or criticism.

[ponta1]

Your statement proves something about "YuNabots". There are so many YuNabots but you don't hear Mao bashing or criticism.

Yeah, right

[duane]

Though I've always admired Kristi's two triple-lutz LPs (including the difficult 3lutz/3toe combo), I've never been a fan of her overall skating, and thought the extremely high artistic impression marks that she received were laughable. And yes, I know marks are relative.

[aftershocks]

Well, already I'm in the minority but as an overall skater (not just jumping) I chose Kristi Yamaguchi and at the risk of being flamed I even think that at the moment and especiallly last season Yu Na (I do like her) was a tiny bit overrated. Also after last season I wouldn't say that Mao is more popular than Yu Na at all. IIRC, last season the commentators and fans mostly talked about Yu Na being the dominant skater and the judges seemed to agree and marked her as such with record breaking marks. No one gave Mao a snowballs chance in hell to win the gold in Vancouver even if she had skated clean.

It is true that both Tonya Harding and Midori Ito had triple axels in their jumping arsenals but those two ladies gained attention for those jumps because during Kristi's time as an amateur competitor they were the exception to the rule ... As I said I do like Yu Na but last season while she is working on being an elegant skater I still feel it's in the TES in which she is stronger. I haven't seen her this season, not even in exhibition so I'm not sure if I would feel differently but last year I felt that she still doesn't have a true connection with her music. She's working on improving her interpretation but it still feels/felt choreographed. Meaning when she did arm movement or changed her facial expression it didn't seem as if she really felt it but only that was the part of the program in which she was supposed to do this or that...

I don't think we can really judge yet since Yuna's career isn't over. When Kristi was Yuna's age, she hadn't won the Olympics or her second World title. Since Yuna is only twenty and still competing, I think she has the potential for many more improvements and accomplishments. At this point, it's kind of a toss up. I think Yuna is a better singles skater overall, but Kristi managing to achieve so much in both singles and pairs is quite impressive.

Interestingly, both had a 3z-3t and were missing an edge jump to varying degrees: Kristi- 3sal, Yu Na- 3loop.

Yu Na had more speed, powerful jumps and more difficult combos w/ a 3z-3t and 2x-3t. Kristi had only the 3z-3t Yet Kristi had better non-jump elements IMO

Kristi could point her toes.

I think this is a fair assessment. Although her [YuNa's] most recent practice clips seem to indicate an effort to improve her lines; which is one reason I'm very interested in seeing her new programs in their entirety.

ITA with the above viewpoints, particularly Carmen O's post. Also, definitely agree that Kristi was not necessarily exciting to watch as a skater, but she was pretty, pleasing to watch, and an overall complete skater in her era. She worked at doing all the jumps, even her weak 3sal (which btw was weak because of the difficulty of transitioning to doing that jump as a singles skater when she was used to being thrown into the air by Rudy G, which helped her on the perhaps more difficult for her 3sal edge takeoff). ITA that Kristi improved her skating during her years as a pro, and she also developed her flirty, seductive side, but that comes with maturity and life experience. She was absolutely the bomb with Mark Ballas on DWTS. Kristi's secret weapon was her pro ice career experience and her years of working with a partner on the ice, so it was not new for her on the dance floor -- she and Mark really connected and had fun.

I loved Midori Ito, and I think she doesn't get enough credit for what she could do and tried to improve upon in the artistry/ lyrical aspects of her skating. Ito = phenomenal jumper who upped the ante. There's still no one like her because she brought the beautiful strength of her gracious personality and joyful spirit to the ice as well. Of course Miki Ando also has phenomenal jumps, but lacks in on-ice personality, artistry, and ability to connect with the audience. I don't include MK in this context because she is incomparable in what she has accomplished in total as a skater and a person. SOme have cited MK as not having high jumps, but she possessed such technical purity in every aspect of her skating, consistency, grace, courage, and such indefinable qualities of magic and connection to the audience that there is no comparison. MK set a standard for her generation that I doubt anyone will surpass in our lifetimes.

No, YuNa is not a better skater than MK either. YuNa has simply followed in Michelle's blade tracks, and she still has a lot of work to do. Like Robeye, I am very interested in seeing how YuNa might have improved in her lines since working with Peter Oppegard and Karen Kwan Oppegard. Personally, I think that one of Michelle Kwan's secret weapons has been her sister, Karen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ0xJ...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4J5fqOhjr4

Yes, very long arms and legs but she knows how to use them. Lack of speed and good but not great jumps, are overshadowed by her beautiful lines, elegance, unteachable grace, and an effortless, ethereal/ spiritual quality that shows her personality and connects with the audience.

Combine the qualities exhibited in these clips with the speed, ice coverage, and jumping ability that YuNa already possesses, and ... Wow! If Peter and Karen at least get YuNa to point her feet, that will be a huge improvement. I think YuNa has the capacity to continue to improve on her weaknesses: her innate reserved personality, poor spirals and spins, poor lines, leaving out the 3loop, to actually live up to her premature title of Queen YuNa, one of the greats.

[briancoogaert]

I wish I had heard that...Calmat is a Canadian sportscaster?

Alain Calmat was a french skater, 3 European titles, the World title in 1965 and an Olympic silver medal in 1964.
He also was a famous judge (1980 Olympics, IIRC) and was a surgeon.

His sentence was about the SP in Albertville. He wopuld have had Tonya Harding ahead of Midori Ito : "Harding attempted a 3 Axel, more difficult than the Lutz combo, and she is more artistic than Ito" (IIRC).

[miki88]

Alain Calmat was a french skater, 3 European titles, the World title in 1965 and an Olympic silver medal in 1964.
He also was a famous judge (1980 Olympics, IIRC) and was a surgeon.

His sentence was about the SP in Albertville. He wopuld have had Tonya Harding ahead of Midori Ito : "Harding attempted a 3 Axel, more difficult than the Lutz combo, and she is more artistic than Ito" (IIRC).

I wouldn't consider either one very artistic, but both had natural charisma. As amateurs, I found Tonya and Midori more exciting to watch than Kristi.

Yeah, right

I know right?

[aftershocks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozwFZ5NoNs

(I'd forgotten that Kristi fell on the triple loop, and then doubled the salchow-- great choreography and competent skating, but not close to the way MK makes audiences feel. Better lines, spin positions and steadier spirals than YuNa, but at this point Kristi had not fully developed as a person or an artist -- she was obviously the favorite)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=polwvMNVgFU

(missed first 3axel, landed the second; maybe some don't find her body type pleasing, but nonetheless, she has graceful arms, good positions, amazing jumps, and better spirals than YuNa -- this was pre-high leg spirals of Bobek, Kwan, and Cohen -- can't stand the condescending comments by Scott and sidekick)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baA0so7ipIM

(beautiful music/choreo and execution -- a more mature performance than Kristi's, plus YuNa by 2010 had improved her spins and spirals, and she was on for this performance. This is the BBC version as I couldn't stand Scott as usual -- he actually said in his opening comments that YuNa has no weaknesses. NOT TRUE -- she has lots of areas for improvement, esp. the ubiquitous lack of pointing her feet. I'm eagerly anticipating upcoming Worlds)

Must add that YuNa has had the benefit of skating in Michelle Kwan's wake; something that Kristi did not have. And yes, different eras, different judging systems ... lots of variables.

[Vagabond]

Though I've always admired Kristi's two triple-lutz LPs (including the difficult 3lutz/3toe combo), I've never been a fan of her overall skating, and thought the extremely high artistic impression marks that she received were laughable. And yes, I know marks are relative.

Judges' Scores for the 1992 Olympics Ladies Short Program

Seven judges ranked her sole first for Artistic Impression, one had her tied with Kerrigan, and one had her tied with Ito.

Judges' Scores for the 1992 Olympics Ladies' Free Skate

One judge ranked her second behind Ito for Artistic Impression, and the others had her first.

N.B.: The columns for the first and second mark are incorrectly labeled on the webpage. "TM" should be "AI" and vice versa.
Her rivals for that second mark (for one or both of the programs) included Ito, Harding, Kerrigan, Hubert, Bonaly, Chen, and Sato. The last two of these weren't at the artistic peaks yet and the others, were never particularly renowned for mastering the second mark.

Yamaguchi's Artistic Impression marks don't seem laughable to me.

If you want something to laugh at, consider the Artistic Impression marks the French judge (#4) gave for the skaters below Yamaguchi.

Kristi Yamaguchi 5.9
Surya Bonaly 5.8
Midori Ito 5.7
Tonya Harding 5.7
Nancy Kerrigan 5.6
Yuka Sato 5.5
Chen Lu 5.4
Marina Kielmann 5.4

[judgejudy27]

Ever more funny the British judge scoring technical merit below Yamaguchi:

Sato- 5.7
Ito- 5.6
Preston- 5.5
Chen- 5.4
Harding- 5.4
Kiellmann- 5.4
Neske- 5.3
Kerrigan- 5.3
Chouinard- 5.2
Bonaly- 5.1