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  1. #21
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    Yes, 10 years clause is too limiting. Fortunately, even if enforced, it doesn't exclude Suguri so that's something.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseySlore View Post
    Yes, 10 years clause is too limiting. Fortunately, even if enforced, it doesn't exclude Suguri so that's something.
    OMG, I just realized, this is really the "Fumie Suguri Retirement Initiative".

    She can finally retire from amateur competition but still be able compete for ten more years!

  3. #23
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    I agree that, off the cuff, it seems too limiting to restrict it to medalists in the past 10 years.

    Maybe this pro competition could have divisions, based on retirement year from eligible skating? Heck, look at all of the excitement Midori Ito's apparent return to adult skating has caused. Why not cash in on that publicity and help share the thrill with more fans by having a division for skaters who retired pre-2000? I'd watch a Kristi-Midori rematch. I'm sure Nicole Bobek would jump at the chance to skate (and be great for ratings), and someone like Caryn Kadavy (24 years after her world medal!) is still unbelievably good shape and a great story. This is a skating competition I'd watch.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Kitty View Post
    I'd love to see a real pro am event again, and I hope Scott is able to arrange it. There are a lot of retired competitive skaters I'd love to see in "competition" again.
    me too
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

    "Love is better than Anger, Hope is better than fear" Jack Layton 1950-2011

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    The pool should be pretty small if it's just World/Oly medalists from the past 10 years. That's too limiting, I think. It would exclude skaters like Ilia Kulik and Surya Bonaly who seem to be in pretty good shape. Even someone like Yagudin would only have one season where he'd still be eligible.
    A list of women eligible based on those rules listed in the ISU Communications:

    Joannie Rochette CAN
    Laura Lepisto FIN
    Carolina Kostner ITA
    Fumie Suguri JPN
    Shizuka Arakawa JPN
    Mao Asada JPN
    Miki Ando JPN
    Yu-Na Kim KOR
    Irina Slutskaya RUS
    Elena Sokolova RUS
    Sarah Hughes USA
    Michelle Kwan USA
    Sasha Cohen USA
    Kimmie Meissner USA

    A list of eligible men:

    Jeffrey Buttle CAN
    Patrick Chan CAN
    Brian Joubert FRA
    Stefan Lindemann GER
    Takeshi Honda JPN
    Daisuke Takahashi JPN
    Alexei Yagudin RUS
    Evgeni Plushenko RUS
    Stephane Lambiel SUI
    Timothy Goebel USA
    Evan Lysacek USA
    Johnny Weir USA

    Eligible Pairs:

    Jamie Sale / David Pelletier CAN
    Jessica Dube / Bryce Davison CAN
    Xue Shen / Hongbo Zhao CHN
    Qing Pang / Jian Tong CHN
    Dan Zhang / Hao Zhang CHN
    Aliona Savchenko / Robin Szolkowy GER
    Elena Berezhnaya / Anton Sikharulidze RUS
    Tatiana Totmianina / Maxim Marinin RUS
    Maria Petrova / Alexei Tikhonov RUS
    Yuko Kavaguti / Alexander Smirnov RUS
    Kyoko Ina / John Zimmerman USA

    Eligible Ice Dancers:

    Albena Denkova / Maxim Staviski BUL
    Tessa Virtue / Scott Moir CAN
    Marie-France Dubreuil / Patrice Lauzon CAN
    Shae-Lynn Bourne / Victor Kraatz CAN
    Isabelle Delobel / Olivier Schoenfelder FRA
    Marina Anissina / Gwendal Peizerat FRA
    Kati Winkler / René Lohse GER
    Galit Chait / Sergei Sakhnovski ISR
    Federica Faiella / Massimo Scali ITA
    Barbara Fusar-Poli / Maurizio Margaglio ITA
    Oksana Domnina / Maxim Shabalin RUS
    Jana Khokhlova / Sergei Novitski RUS
    Tatiana Navka / Roman Kostomarov RUS
    Irina Lobacheva / Ilia Averbukh RUS
    Elena Grushina / Ruslan Goncharov UKR
    Meryl Davis / Charlie White USA
    Tanith Belbin / Benjamin Agosto USA

    So bottom line, according to the rules, but not including next weeks worlds;

    11 Pairs, 12 Men, 14 Ladies, and 17 Ice Dance Teams have won a world or olympic medal within 10 seasons.
    There is nothing more captivating in this world than a woman's form gracing the ice in skating boots. It's simply sensational!

  6. #26

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    As for the ten years limit, it says they "should be" medalists of the past ten years. This doesn't sound like there can't be any exceptions. We'll see. I don't think they'd turn down someone like Ilia Kulik should he choose to apply for participation.

  7. #27
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    If it's a pro-am mix, what's the scoring system going to be like?

    Is it just going to be the current scoring system(CoP)? That would difficult for any pre 2005 or so skater to adjust to. Although CoP requirements aren't as harsh as say, 2006, since there are less elements, I suspect it would be easier to attract skaters like Lambiel and Weir if they don't have to weigh down their programs worrying about levels and stuff.

    It'll be interesting if some separate, simplified system gets introduced for this event that eventually expands to all skating. Something that falls somewhere in between 6.0 and current the CoP.

    Or am I just being naive and it'll just be like the "Ten!!!!!!!" fests that were the World Pro's in the 90's.

  8. #28
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    What????? No Ilia and Yagudin eligible only one year???? What´s this?????
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    What????? No Ilia and Yagudin eligible only one year???? What´s this?????
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    What great publicity it would be for the show - Plushenko and Yagudin going head to head again for the first time in years! (And I'm sure neither of them would object to renewing some of their rivalry )

    But IMAGINE what a competition it would be with Yagudin, Plushenko AND Kulik...maybe that's what they're afraid of? That those three would show everyone up?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    What great publicity it would be for the show - Plushenko and Yagudin going head to head again for the first time in years! (And I'm sure neither of them would object to renewing some of their rivalry )

    But IMAGINE what a competition it would be with Yagudin, Plushenko AND Kulik...maybe that's what they're afraid of? That those three would show everyone up?
    Nobody would watch real Worlds anymore.

  11. #31

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    If it's an ISU competition, then the ISU would set the rules and I can't see them promoting anything other than COP. I'm sure the ISU would rather die a painful death than bring out 6.0 again, even for this pro-am.

  12. #32

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    In theory, though, in the future once everyone is fully trained in skills needed to earn higher levels, a skater retired for 10 years might still be able to defeat a recent medalist who earned that medal on the strength of jump content. Depends what the rules are and how fit each of them is at 1 or 10 years after their medal(s).

  13. #33
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    I'd like to see them open it up to medalists (maybe even top 10? or 5?) of any ISU championship (4CC, Euros, GPF). The list is just way too small. Not all of them are going to want to do it.

    Plus it leaves out a lot of my favorites... but I doubt it will be shown on any TV channel I get anyway. So it's moot.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Kitty View Post
    I'd love to see a real pro am event again, and I hope Scott is able to arrange it. There are a lot of retired competitive skaters I'd love to see in "competition" again.


    I have missed pro-am events and hope to see some old favourites competing in them!

  15. #35
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    If it gets skaters like Lambiel, Arakawa, Buttle, Weir, Cohen, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze, Annissina & Peizerat, Delobel & Schoenfelder, etc, back in competition, I'm all for it.
    Well, like Yagudin, after next year Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze and Annissina & Peizerat will also be outside the 10 year limit.

    I mean, Kulik still has a 3A ffs.
    I cannot recall the last time Kulik landed a 3A, but I know it's been years since the last time I saw or read about him landing one. It's even been years since I saw him do a program with an early 2A in a place where he could do a 3A if the rink was big enough. I do recall seeing 3F and 3Z in his most recent numbers, though, which probably has him ahead of Yagudin. We've also seen him do 3S in recent years, but I can't recall the last 3 loop, either.

    Like others, I hope this is not just a forum for showing off SOI skaters, but that they make a real effort to attract the best available. I kind of like that they call for one event each in Asia, NA, and Europe. It kind of mitigates against a too heavily NA orientation. If they hope to sell the TV right to these events in other countries, then I think that pretty much guarantees it won't just be the casts of the US and Canadian SOI tours competing.

    Maybe this pro competition could have divisions, based on retirement year from eligible skating? Heck, look at all of the excitement Midori Ito's apparent return to adult skating has caused.
    I think you've hit on it!! What skating really needs is a seniors tour, like golf and tennis. Seriously, though, I kind of like the idea of a second event for people whose last medals were longer ago.

    It'll be interesting if some separate, simplified system gets introduced for this event that eventually expands to all skating.
    It sounded from the announcement like there will be some non-ISU content/scoring for the short programs. Maybe if this works, the ISU will let them make changes for the free skate portions as well. The ISU rulebook used to also include an "interpretive program" so maybe they can resurrect that. COP doesn't address how to score the interpretive program and, as I recall, even under 6.0 the judges were totally confused about how to rank them.

    I'd like to see them open it up to medalists (maybe even top 10? or 5?) of any ISU championship (4CC, Euros, GPF). The list is just way too small. Not all of them are going to want to do it.
    I am kind of sorry it leaves out the Kerrs. At least Faella-S got in under the wire.
    I wonder what size fields they are planning for these events. They are clearly described as made-for-TV events, so it could be as few as 4-5 entrants per discipline. I wonder if they intend to feature the same skaters in all 3 or if the participants will change from place to place.
    Last edited by Susan M; 04-22-2011 at 05:22 AM.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I cannot recall the last time Kulik landed a 3A, but I know it's been years since the last time I saw or read about him landing one. It's even been years since I saw him do a program with an early 2A in a place where he could do a 3A if the rink was big enough. I do recall seeing 3F and 3Z in his most recent numbers, though, which probably has him ahead of Yagudin. We've also seen him do 3S in recent years, but I can't recall the last 3 loop, either.
    At my last count, Kulik is still doing in shows 3T, 3Lz, 3F and 3S. He took his 3A out of his show programs because he was having trouble with his consistency but the last time I can remember seeing him do one is 2009's Song for the King in Sth Korea. He is working on it in practice and apparently intends to put it back in his show programs shortly.

    Regardless, he is still far and away a better skater than half the current circuit and always will be. The very fact that he still has so many triples at his age should be enough. His jump technique is just about flawless, and he's developed into an amazing artist.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    I do HATE the fact that it's associated in any way with Scott Hamilton, which means high quality international skaters will probably get passed over for lower quality NA skaters.
    In the announcement it was mentioned that the events will be held in three different geographical locations (in principle one in Asia, one in Europe and one in NA). Because of that I really doubt that "higher quality" international skaters will get passed by "lower quality" NA skaters. Besides all the competitors have to be World or Olympic medalists, so lower quality does not apply to anyone.
    Last edited by Jaana; 04-22-2011 at 08:44 AM.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    As for the ten years limit, it says they "should be" medalists of the past ten years. This doesn't sound like there can't be any exceptions. We'll see. I don't think they'd turn down someone like Ilia Kulik should he choose to apply for participation.
    There could be some wriggle room there. If the rule said "shall be" that would certainly mean that there was no room for discretion but should might not be as tight.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    I do HATE the fact that it's associated in any way with Scott Hamilton, which means high quality international skaters will probably get passed over for lower quality NA skaters.
    Considering that two of the Olympic Gold Medalists in 2010 were from North America, I would say that the North Americans can hold there own in that department, at the moment.

  20. #40
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    The Japanese (federation, TV stations, skaters) might also love the idea of a Pro-Am competition. Takahashi and Ando will retire sooner or later. Also Yuna and the South Korean TV stations etc. might also like the idea. They will definitely raise the bar.

    A lot of skaters are still interested in competing, but don't want to commit to the lifestyle of an eligible skater anymore. I think they'd love to do it. It's a great way to keep them in competitions.

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