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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    I just hope Lady Stark dies. Women like that irritate me. She's so freaking emotional and acts without notice of consequence. It's like Heffa do you really think that the Queen's family is gonna allow you to punish them for hurting your son? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

    It goes with her being nasty and stupid with Jon Snow. He's your husband's illegimate son. The boy is almost 20, get over it already!!!!
    About Lady Stark:

    Spoiler


  2. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    It goes with her being nasty and stupid with Jon Snow. He's your husband's illegimate son. The boy is almost 20, get over it already!!!!
    I believe George RR Martin's intent was to make the medieval world as accurately as possible. From a medieval perspective, I understand Lady Stark's actions. Not blaming the sons for the sins of the father is a very modern idea, so I think most women in that time would do the same.

    Also, resources are scarce. They live in an area called Winterfell. I don't get the impression the Starks are really wealthy--comfortable yes but not rich. You're going to do everything you can to make sure your five children are cared for and looked after before you take in another. If I lived in that time, I'd react the same. It would also be in the back of my mind that if I accept THIS son THIS time, there might be more in the future. It was a hard time, and I understand her drawing a hard line.
    "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." –Olympic Charter

  3. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    I believe George RR Martin's intent was to make the medieval world as accurately as possible. From a medieval perspective, I understand Lady Stark's actions. Not blaming the sons for the sins of the father is a very modern idea, so I think most women in that time would do the same.

    Also, resources are scarce. They live in an area called Winterfell. I don't get the impression the Starks are really wealthy--comfortable yes but not rich. You're going to do everything you can to make sure your five children are cared for and looked after before you take in another. If I lived in that time, I'd react the same. It would also be in the back of my mind that if I accept THIS son THIS time, there might be more in the future. It was a hard time, and I understand her drawing a hard line.
    See I think the opposite. Snow is a bastard, he has no title, no lineage and virtually exists to be servants of lords. If all the illegimate Stark children died, Snow still wouldn't inherit crap. Snow was treated that of a servant.

    I understand life in Medieval times was hard, but Lady Stark, I doubt it. Mind you I haven't read the books but women were treated based on their social rank, and Caitlyn Stark is treated quite well and probably always has been. Many a folk/servants would starve but Caitlyn stark's stomach would growl.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  4. #264

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    Count me in among the Catelyn haters.

    I think the book does a good job fleshing out her resentment (and subsequent treatment) of Jon Snow, and given the context of the time period, I can at least understand her motivations behind it, if not entirely empathize.

    However, her reckless pursuit of Tyrion Lannister has to be the stupidest and most selfish act of any character in the books. The consequences of her actions are HUGE for all the characters (especially the ones she loves), and in some form or another, ends up putting them all in more mortal danger than they would've been in otherwise had she stayed in Winterfell.

    And it all could've been avoided had she just thought for one second on how kidnapping Tyrion would've affected the safety of Ned, Sansa and Arya in Kings Landing (a place practically run by the Lannisters), or how her absence would've affected Robb and Bran back at Winterfell.

    The whole idea was stupid, and for all her protective mothering in bringing Bran's "attacker" to justice, she ends up ultimately abandoning and an endangering her entire family in the process.

  5. #265

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    Don't be too harsh on Cat. She's not that stupid. She acts on what her sister told her. And I won't add much before I spoil the books.

    So. I liked this episode a lot. The "fight" between Ned and Jaime was spot on. Too bad the "king" can't react on this.
    Renly ? A spoiled brat like in the books.

    I loved Arya as usual. But I want some more Clegane !
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  6. #266

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    About Renly and Loras. They are gay in the books as well but it is only hinted at.

    Spoiler


  7. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    I just hope Lady Stark dies. Women like that irritate me. She's so freaking emotional and acts without notice of consequence.
    It's not true that she acts without notice of consequences. She's very attuned to the consequences of actions when war comes and various battle plans have to be analyzed, for instance. As for the Queen's family punishing her for going after them for trying to kill her son; yes, they will. However, what Lady Stark is trying to do is to gather information to force the King to do the right thing and see that justice prevails.

    ETA: Basically what you are saying is 'blame the victim' and I'm not buying it. The Starks are the victims here and you expect them to just look the other way because in hindsight it turns out that the consequences are bad. Sorry, but I just don't see it or feel that way. I'm continuing to be astounded by the hate that comes Catelyn's way.
    Last edited by emason; 05-17-2011 at 01:59 PM.

  8. #268
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    Yeah I get mildly irritated at Catelyn sometimes, but overall she is a very strong woman and I admire her willingness to take risks as opposed to sitting back and doing whatever a man tells her to. She's just trying to get to the bottom of the Lannister deception. I think her methods aren't the greatest, but she's doing what she thinks is best.

  9. #269
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    About Catelyn: The queen rules the king, we saw that with Cersei having Lady killed in place of Nymeria. Catelyn's daughter is engaged to Joff, the royal sadistic brat, and the NEPHEW of Tyrion, and brother of the queen. They may not like the dwarf, but he's family. Dwarfnapping isn't a smart thing to do when your 2 daughters and husband (and retainers) are in the king's household. Ned was caught flatfooted by the dwarfnapping (and yes, I think there's a spare raven or two that could have gotten the news to him before he was gobsmacked by it). Several people told her Lyssa had changed. She didn't believe them.

    So, I don't like her and I still think her comments to Jon Snow are reprehensible. And I'm not 'blaming the victim' here. Ned wouldn't have been attacked by Jaime if she hadn't grabbed Tyrion.

    And King Robert has no idea anymore what the 'right thing' is, nor does he care. He wants to wench, drink and fight his way to death - he's miserable. If his "Hand" dying didn't wake him up, he's millions in debt, and he refuses to stand up to his wife in court, then he's worthless as a king. There's no justice in his court.

    PS - Robb didn't order Tyrion held either.

    Back to HBO and poetic license - with "Rome", Attia of the Julii was in reality, a very religious, pious woman. The tv Attia was her total opposite.

  10. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbell1 View Post
    Ned wouldn't have been attacked by Jaime if she hadn't grabbed Tyrion.
    Catelyn wouldn't have had to grab Tyrion if the Lannisters hadn't tried not once, but twice, to kill Bran. The problem starts with the Lannisters, not with Catelyn. The real problem is that Ned Stark is on the verge of discovering the reason Jon Arryn died and Cersei and Jaime can't have that.

    I'm now off to start a Support for Catelyn group. She needs some fans in her corner.

  11. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by emason View Post
    Catelyn wouldn't have had to grab Tyrion if the Lannisters hadn't tried not once, but twice, to kill Bran. The problem starts with the Lannisters, not with Catelyn. The real problem is that Ned Stark is on the verge of discovering the reason Jon Arryn died and Cersei and Jaime can't have that.

    I'm now off to start a Support for Catelyn group. She needs some fans in her corner.
    she thinks that the lannisters tried to kill bran. she has no proof. and one would think she would be able to know Littlefinger a bit better considering they grew up tohether.

    Spoiler


  12. #272
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    Curse the spoilers in this thread that I feel compelled to look at lol

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbell1 View Post
    Back to HBO and poetic license - with "Rome", Attia of the Julii was in reality, a very religious, pious woman. The tv Attia was her total opposite.
    More to the point, she was DEAD long before most of the actions, particularly the second season, occur. (Of course they played rather fast and loose with timelines and actors anyway--has anyone ever explained how Rubio the slave grows to adulthood while Vorenus and Pullo are off on campaign and Octavian later ages out of his first actor while Vorenus's "children" (and his wife's bastard son) should be in their thirties by the end of the series and yet are still teens at the oldest? For that matter, apparently if you go by dates of battles Eirene is pregnant for much longer than is normal, giving Melanie in Gone With the Wind a run for her money in the implausbily-long fictional pregnancy department. Never, ever sit down and do the math on how old characters in Rome should be based on when events depicted actually occurred.)

    With ASoIaF, I can't blame them for having to make cuts, as they're doorstopper books with a TON of details. Though fantasy fans are probably more hardcore than scholars of Roman history about nitpicking!

  14. #274
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    Spoiler comments about book four:

    Spoiler


  15. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Spoiler comments about book four:

    Spoiler


    Spoiler


  16. #276

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    Damn these black-out lines. Clearly, I must read faster so they won't be spoilers anymore. I'm DYING. Though the prevelance of the emoticon does not overjoy me muchly. I mislike it, as Tyrion would say.
    "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." –Olympic Charter

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post

    Spoiler


    Spoiler


  18. #278

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    Just finished Book 1...

    Can't wait to start the next one.

  19. #279
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    Book 4 is annoying me. A lot. I'm hoping it stops doing that soon.

  20. #280

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbell1 View Post
    Book 4 is annoying me. A lot. I'm hoping it stops doing that soon.

    Just curious - annoying in what way?

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