Also, resources are scarce. They live in an area called Winterfell. I don't get the impression the Starks are really wealthy--comfortable yes but not rich. You're going to do everything you can to make sure your five children are cared for and looked after before you take in another. If I lived in that time, I'd react the same. It would also be in the back of my mind that if I accept THIS son THIS time, there might be more in the future. It was a hard time, and I understand her drawing a hard line.
When hugging a grammar nazi, I always say "there, their, they're."
I understand life in Medieval times was hard, but Lady Stark, I doubt it. Mind you I haven't read the books but women were treated based on their social rank, and Caitlyn Stark is treated quite well and probably always has been. Many a folk/servants would starve but Caitlyn stark's stomach would growl.
"You're in pretty good shape for the shape you are in.
- Dr. Seuss"
Count me in among the Catelyn haters.
I think the book does a good job fleshing out her resentment (and subsequent treatment) of Jon Snow, and given the context of the time period, I can at least understand her motivations behind it, if not entirely empathize.
However, her reckless pursuit of Tyrion Lannister has to be the stupidest and most selfish act of any character in the books. The consequences of her actions are HUGE for all the characters (especially the ones she loves), and in some form or another, ends up putting them all in more mortal danger than they would've been in otherwise had she stayed in Winterfell.
And it all could've been avoided had she just thought for one second on how kidnapping Tyrion would've affected the safety of Ned, Sansa and Arya in Kings Landing (a place practically run by the Lannisters), or how her absence would've affected Robb and Bran back at Winterfell.
The whole idea was stupid, and for all her protective mothering in bringing Bran's "attacker" to justice, she ends up ultimately abandoning and an endangering her entire family in the process.
Don't be too harsh on Cat. She's not that stupid. She acts on what her sister told her. And I won't add much before I spoil the books.
So. I liked this episode a lot. The "fight" between Ned and Jaime was spot on. Too bad the "king" can't react on this.
Renly ? A spoiled brat like in the books.
I loved Arya as usual. But I want some more Clegane !
About Renly and Loras. They are gay in the books as well but it is only hinted at.
SpoilerLike the line: "Shut up or I shove my sword up your ass as deep as even Renly has never been."
Or people of the family of Loras telling Sansa that he would not make a good husband.
Or Renly laughing and saying to Loras: "Come pray with me" wink wink
It is there but more between the lines.
ETA: Basically what you are saying is 'blame the victim' and I'm not buying it. The Starks are the victims here and you expect them to just look the other way because in hindsight it turns out that the consequences are bad. Sorry, but I just don't see it or feel that way. I'm continuing to be astounded by the hate that comes Catelyn's way.
Last edited by emason; 05-17-2011 at 01:59 PM.
Yeah I get mildly irritated at Catelyn sometimes, but overall she is a very strong woman and I admire her willingness to take risks as opposed to sitting back and doing whatever a man tells her to. She's just trying to get to the bottom of the Lannister deception. I think her methods aren't the greatest, but she's doing what she thinks is best.
About Catelyn: The queen rules the king, we saw that with Cersei having Lady killed in place of Nymeria. Catelyn's daughter is engaged to Joff, the royal sadistic brat, and the NEPHEW of Tyrion, and brother of the queen. They may not like the dwarf, but he's family. Dwarfnapping isn't a smart thing to do when your 2 daughters and husband (and retainers) are in the king's household. Ned was caught flatfooted by the dwarfnapping (and yes, I think there's a spare raven or two that could have gotten the news to him before he was gobsmacked by it). Several people told her Lyssa had changed. She didn't believe them.
So, I don't like her and I still think her comments to Jon Snow are reprehensible. And I'm not 'blaming the victim' here. Ned wouldn't have been attacked by Jaime if she hadn't grabbed Tyrion.
And King Robert has no idea anymore what the 'right thing' is, nor does he care. He wants to wench, drink and fight his way to death - he's miserable. If his "Hand" dying didn't wake him up, he's millions in debt, and he refuses to stand up to his wife in court, then he's worthless as a king. There's no justice in his court.
PS - Robb didn't order Tyrion held either.
Back to HBO and poetic license - with "Rome", Attia of the Julii was in reality, a very religious, pious woman. The tv Attia was her total opposite.
I'm now off to start a Support for Catelyn group. She needs some fans in her corner.
Curse the spoilers in this thread that I feel compelled to look at lol
With ASoIaF, I can't blame them for having to make cuts, as they're doorstopper books with a TON of details. Though fantasy fans are probably more hardcore than scholars of Roman history about nitpicking!
Spoiler comments about book four:
SpoilerSo is Jon going to bite the dust in book 5? Considering the author has not special loyalty to any of the characters, and seeing as how easily he got rid of both Joffery and his father, I would not be surprised if he did. They were two of the most wicked of bad guys and now both gone! And I am having a harder time with book 4 because so many of the characters in this book are ones up till now were marginal at best and so many others are just not in it at all. That said I am happy that Sansa has final stopped acting like a total door knob. ANd that whole thing about switching babies is just silly but that is just me. Looking forward to reading book five and finding out what happens to Dany, Jon, Davos, Bran, the Reed kids and others. I want to see if Jon ever gets to read his brother's will and if he will obey his final wishes. Will Ser Barristan finally tell Dany the truth about her father? Guess I will have to wait until book 5 to find out. LOL
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned."
SpoilerJamie Lannister is Joffrey's father and he was still very much alive, albeit maimed at the end of book 4. Robert Baratheon -who thought he was Joffrey's biological father- was hardly a wicked bad guy. Plenty of bad habits and not exactly a cerebral character, but definitely not inherently bad. Unless you mean Tywin Lannister, but he was Joffrey's grandfather. Wasn't sorry to see the end of his scheming...
Damn these black-out lines. Clearly, I must read faster so they won't be spoilers anymore. I'm DYING. Though the prevelance of the emoticon does not overjoy me muchly. I mislike it, as Tyrion would say.
When hugging a grammar nazi, I always say "there, their, they're."
Just finished Book 1...
Can't wait to start the next one.
Book 4 is annoying me. A lot. I'm hoping it stops doing that soon.