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  1. #1
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    Ladies Long 1986 Worlds

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZK-B...eature=related
    Debi Thomas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reXbo...eature=related
    Katarina Witt
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMXjO...eature=related
    Tiffany Chin
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSVO1...eature=related
    Kira Ivanova
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRkq1kh8fTA
    Poor Q Anyone have a upgrade
    Elizabeth Manley
    No online source anyone have
    Claudia Leistner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rY8hgjtr5E
    Anna Kondrashova
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNulLwpg-c
    Caryn Kadavy
    no source anyone have?
    Tracey Wainman
    Anyone have?
    Natalia Lebedeva
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oZ-Judbac
    Midori Ito

    With no figures Liz Manley could have been 3rd
    Thoughts on this comp
    I thought Kat was a lot more polished then Debi at this point
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by longingfornia View Post
    With no figures Liz Manley could have been 3rd
    Fourth, not third:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Wo...onships#Ladies

    Rank Name Nation CP SP FS SP+FS Points Total
    1 Debi Thomas United States 2 1 2 1 3.6
    2 Katarina Witt East Germany 3 4 1 2 4.4
    3 Tiffany Chin United States 4 2 4 3 7.2
    4 Kira Ivanova Soviet Union 1 6 8 8 11.0
    5 Elizabeth Manley Canada 11 7 3 4 12.4

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    Quote Originally Posted by longingfornia View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZK-B...eature=related
    Debi Thomas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reXbo...eature=related
    Katarina Witt
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMXjO...eature=related
    Tiffany Chin
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSVO1...eature=related
    Kira Ivanova
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRkq1kh8fTA
    Poor Q Anyone have a upgrade
    Elizabeth Manley
    No online source anyone have
    Claudia Leistner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rY8hgjtr5E
    Anna Kondrashova
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNulLwpg-c
    Caryn Kadavy
    no source anyone have?
    Tracey Wainman
    Anyone have?
    Natalia Lebedeva
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oZ-Judbac
    Midori Ito

    With no figures Liz Manley could have been 3rd
    Thoughts on this comp
    I thought Kat was a lot more polished then Debi at this point
    Cheers
    Katarina was definitely more polished than Debi at this point. Debi wouldn't compete with Witt on the 2d mark until the '87 - '88 season. I like Debi, but she won based on Kat's uncharacteristic flub on the jump combo in the SP. I do think Kat had been battling injury that season and I also remember she was not at her 'fighting weight', as per reports in SI. But Thomas, was really able to deliver although she doubled a troublesome 3loop [she had squeaked it out at Nats].

    It wasn't shown on ABC [or whatever station broadcasted '86 Worlds], but I recall seeing Liz Manley's LP on Youtube and thinking that it may have been her best performance ever.

    Also, Caryn Kadavy in her first outing at Worlds had a mistake in the SP and crumbled somewhat in the LP, after her great performances at '86 Nats, ultimately finishing in 8th. She was capable even in her debut of doing better.

    Ivanova was still considered a factor, if only based on awesome '85 Worlds performances, but IIRC, this was the start of the final slide downward

    This unfortunately would be Tiffany Chin's final big intl. competition, although she was kind of lucky to medal because she only had a 3toe in a time frame when top ladies were starting to go for a 3d type of triple or at least maximizing 3toe and 3sal jumping passes, but Ivanova was sinking, Manley was buried, and Kadavy couldn't string together the performances she gave at nats.

    I don't recall Kondrashova, except she must've had a great SP [wasn't televised] because she was 2d to Thomas.

    Ito was here IIRC, and I think she finished middle of the pack? I don't recall her being a factor. Must've made mistakes? Or buried herself in the figures?

    I also never saw Wainman, but I think she did really well in Figures, 5th or something?

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    I am surprised Witt ended up 4th in the short with a blown combo. How did Ito, Ivanova, Manley, and Leistner skate in the short?

    This was definitely the end of Ivanova's run as a serious contender at the World level. Skating such a bad LP and not medaling her rep took a giant hit, and her skating was regressing and would continue to until her retirement anyway. She kept winning figures but it was nothing more than a novelty in future years.

    I am pretty sure if Manley had done the same LP in the final flight and been in contention going into the long she would have won the LP with the same performance.

    John Tesh is a terrible commentator. Even worse than he was as a gymnastics commentator.

    Kadavy's LP at Nationals that year was not that great also. She didnt land most of her planned triples cleanly there. She blew a big shot to beat Thomas, one of the only times the judges probably even considered letting her do that.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 04-15-2011 at 09:49 PM.

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    I always thought that Kat's "artistry" was way over-rated. While she was a vision on the ice. she never held her moves, pointed her toes..and her butt sticking out in her spread eagle drove me nuts. I hated how she used her arms and hands.(Kind of flung them).That said, she was a terrific competitor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    I always thought that Kat's "artistry" was way over-rated. While she was a vision on the ice. she never held her moves, pointed her toes..and her butt sticking out in her spread eagle drove me nuts. I hated how she used her arms and hands.(Kind of flung them).That said, she was a terrific competitor.
    I agree totally. However there werent many great artistic skaters at the time so just through her character and command on ice she became one of the best. The only potentially great artistic skaters of that period were probably Kadavy, Kondrashova, and depending on your point of view maybe Trenary, and all were weak competitors to varying degrees.

    I actually think Anna Kondrashova is the most artistic Russian skater ever. Definitely moreso than Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, or Ivanova. Unfortunately she was never that strong a technical skater, never skated with enough power, sureness, or confidence, and was too inconsistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    IKadavy's LP at Nationals that year was not that great also. She didnt land most of her planned triples cleanly there. She blew a big shot to beat Thomas, one of the only times the judges probably even considered letting her do that.
    Yep. Kadavy never gave a "great" performance at Nationals. If she did she would have been National Champion. She's the Sasha of her time: capable of winning a National Chamionship over her main rivals at the time but could never put it together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    I always thought that Kat's "artistry" was way over-rated. While she was a vision on the ice. she never held her moves, pointed her toes..and her butt sticking out in her spread eagle drove me nuts. I hated how she used her arms and hands.(Kind of flung them).That said, she was a terrific competitor.
    My thought exactly. But she had something special on the ice. I don't know how to describe it : something very natural and attractive !

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    ^ I guess I forgot about Kadavy's LP at Nats, but she did win the SP IIRC

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    I always thought that Kat's "artistry" was way over-rated. While she was a vision on the ice. she never held her moves, pointed her toes..and her butt sticking out in her spread eagle drove me nuts. I hated how she used her arms and hands.(Kind of flung them).That said, she was a terrific competitor.
    Joining the chorus!

    Adding:

    Midori Ito - 1986 World Championships Long Program (UK)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oZ-Judbac

    Midori Ito 1986 Worlds SP & LP (JPTV)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FfYj6WQzDM

    Elizabeth Manley LP 1986 World Championships
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRkq1kh8fTA

    Caryn Kadavy (USA) - 1986 World Championships, Ladies' Long Program
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNul...4D46D5ACF7D39E
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 04-15-2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason: to add programs

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I am pretty sure if Manley had done the same LP in the final flight and been in contention going into the long she would have won the LP with the same performance.
    I think it's fair to say that Manley was undermarked, but this kind of speculation goes nowhere. For Manley to be in the final flight, either she would have had to have been better at figures (probably at the expense of her free skating) or there would have had to be no compulsories, in which case Thomas, Witt, and Chin would likely have been able to develop and deliver even better SP's and FS's than they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    My thought exactly. But she had something special on the ice. I don't know how to describe it : something very natural and attractive !
    Some skaters had/have command on the ice. Kat had "demand", does that make sense?

    She definitely had a "presence"..

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    Makes perfect sense. No-one has ever competed like Katarina, before or after. She really "demanded" attention.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

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    Liz Manley was really brilliant, what a performance!

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    Liz skated just as well if not better at the 1986 St Ivel. Lutz, toe, loop and sal all clean as you like woven together in an utterly brilliant program. If only she had skated that performance at the 1987 Worlds

    1986 was only Ito's second worlds as she missed '85 with a broken ankle. She skated great but was growing and her triple lutz wasn't very consistent in '86 or '87. It was only after she lost weight before the '87-88 season that she really got it back.

    As discussed in the other thread about Witt, she wasn't a great artist on the ice, never was but she absolutely had the 'it' factor, was just about the best publicity a sport could wish for and the judges marked her accordingly.

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    Just watched Kadavy and Ito here - Ito was always outstanding as a jumper but back then, you could see how ragged her non-jump elements were. Still really eye-opening, though.

    Kadavy really showed promise with this LP; very balletic. I thought it was better than her '87 and '88 LP which was still good as well. I didn't know she had won '85 SC and '85 Russian Cup, and headed into Worlds as a newcomer w/ momentum. The judges obviously liked her if she delivered

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    Kadavy was a joy to watch , such a delightful program! her soft landings, her natural and easy way of moving-brilliant!

    Manley was also fantastic, no way her free skate was only 4th best of the night, to me, she was the best. Most of the choreo was 80-ies horrid anyway, I didn't care for either Witt or Thomas programs, though Katarina moved nicely and used her arms well, much better than Debi.

    Tiffany Chin was so cute, her presentation really caught me as well, she had great qualities to her. So had Ivanova, something solid and special. So voidy, too bad about the mistakes.

    Midori was such an energy package, she was also better than Tomas, even though she was very unpolished. that speed going into the jumps-fab!!

    I love watching 80-ies skating, all the girls looks like they're about to join the golden girls, though they're mostly in their teens. Chin was adorable with that hair.
    The outfits are a different chapter lol gotta love Katarinas batman-something dress!!

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