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  1. #1

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    Question How Much is Too Much?

    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

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    I can certainly understand the temptation to unwind before bed after a busy and/or stressful day. I suffer terrible hangovers though. Even a few glasses of wine leave me headachey and dehydrated. I usually just indulge during the winter holidays. By the time they roll around again I've forgotten the unpleasant after effects.

    Skating is my escape instead!

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    Chips and salsa, plus computer scrabble are my escape!
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I can certainly understand the temptation to unwind before bed after a busy and/or stressful day. I suffer terrible hangovers though. Even a few glasses of wine leave me headachey and dehydrated.
    This is my exact problem. Not sure what it is about me but I get hungover incredibly easy. I can have just a couple of drinks and I do not sleep well, wake up incredibly thirsty multiple times a night and just feel like crap for the first few hours of the next day.

    When I do drink I just have at it because I figure if I am going to be hungover I might as well have a good time since the end result is the same whether I drink 2 or 5. I probably drink once a month or so.

    I have noticed that it hasn't been quite as bad the last year or so. I am not sure why, I don't think I am doing anything differently. I am still hungover but not as badly or for as long as I used to be. I've always wondered if I am just allergic to alcohol, haha.

    I've never understood how anyone could be an alcoholic because of the hangovers with as much as they drink.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    How Much is Too Much?
    My late grand-father had a perfect answer: Was ist "zu" - ist "uber"

  6. #6
    drinky typo pbp, closet hugger
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I've never understood how anyone could be an alcoholic because of the hangovers with as much as they drink.
    you don't get hangovers if you don't stop drinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    you don't get hangovers if you don't stop drinking.
    Good point! Most of them do stop drinking for at least a little while but I think when the hangover/withdrawal sets in is when they begin drinking right away. I never thought about it but they are avoiding the hangovers by drinking more not necessarily because of some special gift, lol
    -Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    Good point! Most of them do stop drinking for at least a little while but I think when the hangover/withdrawal sets in is when they begin drinking right away. I never thought about it but they are avoiding the hangovers by drinking more not necessarily because of some special gift, lol
    Yes but if you don't stop drinking eventually the room starts spinning and you throw up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Yes but if you don't stop drinking eventually the room starts spinning and you throw up.
    Not if you've built up a tolerance. I've seen gals go from one glass a night to one bottle a night over the course of a year. Their ability to get buzzed diminishes, and the after effects are less than they are for someone who only drinks occasionally. Believe me, there are a lot of soccer moms driving around blitzed out of their minds.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    Not if you've built up a tolerance. I've seen gals go from one glass a night to one bottle a night over the course of a year. Their ability to get buzzed diminishes, and the after effects are less than they are for someone who only drinks occasionally. Believe me, there are a lot of soccer moms driving around blitzed out of their minds.
    Now that's a scary thought!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    Not if you've built up a tolerance. I've seen gals go from one glass a night to one bottle a night over the course of a year. Their ability to get buzzed diminishes, and the after effects are less than they are for someone who only drinks occasionally. Believe me, there are a lot of soccer moms driving around blitzed out of their minds.
    There is an alcoholic in my family who makes mixed drinks with about 12 oz. of alcohol to maybe 3 oz. of juice. I've seen her knock back four or five of those in a couple of hours without any noticeable effect whatsoever. I can't imagine how much alcohol it would take to make her obviously drunk.

    I went to lunch with her a while back and she had a pitcher of beer, less one glass for her boyfriend, three lemon-drop martinis, a shot of something and one other mixed drink in the hour and a half we were there. The only sign that she might have had a lot to drink was that she way overtipped the server.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    One of the comments below the article rants about government guidelines on how much is acceptable, and I have to agree.

    Further to Prancer's post above, some people can clearly handle a lot more alcohol than others (certainly in my experience), and among many, there's even a marked difference in how various forms of alcohol affect them.

    Guidelines usually differentiate between men and women, but I'm not certain why. It seems that generally, people who are slighter in size show effects faster than bigger people, but there never seems to be correlation to weight.

    And as the article points out and is discussed her, the level of alcohol one is used to can make a big difference.

    I'd be interested to know what these so-called guidelines are based on, because they always seem to arbitrary and unrelated to real life.

    It's an interesting article, but the actual health risks were brushed over so lightly - perhaps because I've what I'm saying here - because except in extreme cases, we really don't have concrete data that would inform guidelines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    One of the comments below the article rants about government guidelines on how much is acceptable, and I have to agree.

    Further to Prancer's post above, some people can clearly handle a lot more alcohol than others (certainly in my experience), and among many, there's even a marked difference in how various forms of alcohol affect them.

    Guidelines usually differentiate between men and women, but I'm not certain why. It seems that generally, people who are slighter in size show effects faster than bigger people, but there never seems to be correlation to weight.

    And as the article points out and is discussed her, the level of alcohol one is used to can make a big difference.

    I'd be interested to know what these so-called guidelines are based on, because they always seem to arbitrary and unrelated to real life.

    It's an interesting article, but the actual health risks were brushed over so lightly - perhaps because I've what I'm saying here - because except in extreme cases, we really don't have concrete data that would inform guidelines.
    In the US, much of the data for the guidelines comes from the longitudinal Framingham Heart Study as well as the ANA Nurses Study. For both men and women, abstaining completely is associated with a slightly lower life span. The best health outcomes are in the 4-5 drinks/week group.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    In the US, much of the data for the guidelines comes from the longitudinal Framingham Heart Study as well as the ANA Nurses Study. For both men and women, abstaining completely is associated with a slightly lower life span. The best health outcomes are in the 4-5 drinks/week group.
    But there is always the causation/correlation debate. Some say that those who drink a few drinks a week are more outgoing and social people because most do not drink at home alone. So are those people generally more healthy and active and therefore more outgoing and social and therefore more likely to drink a few a week? I always find it fascinating to think about causation and correlation debates.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    But there is always the causation/correlation debate. Some say that those who drink a few drinks a week are more outgoing and social people because most do not drink at home alone. So are those people generally more healthy and active and therefore more outgoing and social and therefore more likely to drink a few a week? I always find it fascinating to think about causation and correlation debates.
    I find it fascinating too, particularly as I don't drink (maybe one or two a year). There are people who wouldn't call themselves alcoholics, but NEED to have a bottle of wine with every meal, or NEED to have a beer or two every night or NEED to a G&T to wind down. And when they go out they don't feel they can socialise effectively unless they have a glass of wine in their hands.

    I think it is a matter of training yourself to NEED those things because certainly there is no rule of society that says you have to do any of it.

    I do find it ironic that people who comment on me spending money on skating generally have no problem shelling out $10-15 for a bottle of wine every day.

    The ones that get me too are those who complain about weight issues or have health problems. They watch their diet, do exercise but if you suggested that maybe if they cut down on the booze which is probably the principle cause that is off limits.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    But there is always the causation/correlation debate. Some say that those who drink a few drinks a week are more outgoing and social people because most do not drink at home alone. So are those people generally more healthy and active and therefore more outgoing and social and therefore more likely to drink a few a week? I always find it fascinating to think about causation and correlation debates.
    Agree. One of the cause/effect connections I've seen repeatedly is that alcoholics or those who drink a lot of alcohol are in danger of malnutrition in a variety of forms. I always assumed this was something to do with the way alcohol might effect absorption of vitamins and other nutrients and their efficacy in the body. I was curious so looked and looked and looked, and finally found a source that was more specific than "alcohol = bad nutrition."

    I was what the reasoning was - that alcoholics and people who drink a lot tend either eat too little, or eat badly. WTF?

    I don't doubt that's what happens in many cases, but I also know that many people who enjoy booze also enjoy cooking and eating well. The two often go hand in hand. The magazine isn't called Food and Wine for nothing.

    And you're right, BigB, there have been many studies recently about the value of socialization in increasing longevity. So how does that balance against the physical and emotional effects of alcohol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I find it fascinating too, particularly as I don't drink (maybe one or two a year). There are people who wouldn't call themselves alcoholics, but NEED to have a bottle of wine with every meal, or NEED to have a beer or two every night or NEED to a G&T to wind down. And when they go out they don't feel they can socialise effectively unless they have a glass of wine in their hands.
    This is the other issue, bias. As with most things, we have opinions that are informed by our own values and habits and experiences. If we believe fervently enough - in this case either that alcohol is bad or that we like it enough that we want to justify it - then we will naturally be selective about what sources we believe or even remember.

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    People need to find a different way to unwind, be it exercise, reading, doing something more constructive. It's easy to just sit back, uncork that wine and either watch TV or hop on the computer. Sometimes I won't have a glass of wine until very late right before I go to bed, that way, there's no time to overimbibe, I'm too tired! But yes, it can be habit-forming just like anything else, doesn't mean you're an alcoholic like the woman in the article who'd wake up in the morning with bruises and not remember going to bed. Now she had a problem!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I don't doubt that's what happens in many cases, but I also know that many people who enjoy booze also enjoy cooking and eating well. The two often go hand in hand. The magazine isn't called Food and Wine for nothing.
    .
    The serious alcoholics that I have known aren't reading gourmet magazines and matching wines. I doubt that many gourmet food lovers who like wine with their meals are hardcore alcoholics. They may drink more than the average, though.

    Hardcore alcoholics drink to drink. Not for taste or enjoyment. One alcoholic in my family is now retired and drinks roughly a six pack of cheap beer and a bottle of vodka (with Crystal Light lemonade) each day starting at about 10:30 or 11 a.m. If he drinks wine, it is boxed white zinfandel. He does not like craft beers or care about the quality of beer or wine or if it goes with what he is eating.

    When he traveled with an RV trailer for six months a year with his wife, they had a fridge for beer installed in the truck and he drank while driving.

    As for his diet, it consists of meat and desserts. Not much else.

  19. #19

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    To add to PDilemma's post. One other thing for folks here who might not have experience with alcoholics, one of the things to watch for IS a change in diet. Someone who before might have grabbed that last piece of pie as a late night snack is no longer interested. Someone who used to eat a full meal in the evening isn't hungry at meal time. Someone now skips breakfast or eats it later than before. Those diet changes can go hand in hand with an increase in alcohol use.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

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    I guess part of the issue is the definitions of alcoholic, alcoholism, alcohol addiction, drinking too much, etc.

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