Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 141
  1. #121
    Saint Smugpawski
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cutting Down Privet Because Food Prices Are Going Up Next Year
    Posts
    11,422
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15211
    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I must say, however, that if the children of the 50s were so well-behaved, where did all those hippies and draft dodgers come from in the 1960s?
    Someone once speculated in my vicinity that the hippies were a result of the broken/messed up homes created by WWII. Absent fathers, dead fathers, overworked mothers due to absence of fathers, fathers who came backed not right in the head. That sort of thing.
    The fastest thing out of New Jersey since Tricky Nicky in a Muscovian handbasket

  2. #122
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6,262
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Grannyfan View Post
    ...On the flip side, those kids I referred to earlier never finished school at all....
    Ding, ding, ding, ding. Students with learning disabilities have always existed. And public schools really sucked for them back in "the good old days".

  3. #123
    INTJ
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,925
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I haven't read the entire thread but this is making headlines in my part of the world.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the police in these situations. They are making split second decisions in stressful situations. It looks bad but somehow I doubt that some police officer just tasered or pepper sprayed a kid without a really good reason.
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett

  4. #124
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
    Posts
    4,418
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by made_in_canada View Post
    I have a lot of sympathy for the police in these situations. They are making split second decisions in stressful situations. It looks bad but somehow I doubt that some police officer just tasered or pepper sprayed a kid without a really good reason.
    Although I don't necessarily assume that the police were wrong in this incident, I also don't necessarily believe automatically that they had "a really good reason." Some police officers have been shown in the past to be biased against a. Aboriginal people and b. "troublemaker kids," so I would have no trouble believing that they went into this situation with all guns blazing, so to speak, rather than with a view to addressing the situation calmly.

    And despite the Robert Dziekański case, police are still inclined to view tasering as a completely harmless was of subduing a suspect.

    But no snap judgments here, let the investigation tell us what happened.

  5. #125
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    588
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I am not familiar with squirrel behavior but do they usually chase people? If not, perhaps his concern with the squirrel being rabid is justified?
    I have numerous squirrels where I live, and had one follow me from my house to my car and back. People here feed them, so they become fairly tame when seeking food. It's likely that squirrel was used to being fed. Rabies in small mammals like squirrels is fairly unusual, so this cop was likely in no danger.

    I had a cousin who was supposed to be ADD-He spent his time torturing his cousins and teachers, throwing one of them down the stairs. When he threatened an aunt, she snatched him up and told him in no uncertain terms that if he even looked at her side ways, ever, he was going to wish HE had been the one tossed down the stairs. After that, he was a perfect angel to her, and always addressed her respectfully. Kid was just an animal who was indulged terribly. In his case, I think they perpetuated the "disorder" to keep the government assistance gravy train they were receiving steaming full speed ahead.

    Pepper spraying the squirrel? No. The kid? Probably the best thing to do in the circumstances.

  6. #126

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,761
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    14960
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    police are still inclined to view tasering as a completely harmless was of subduing a suspect.

    Well, fine. If you want them to pull their gun...


    This is what pisses me off no end about society's attitude to the police. You taser them, you're inhumane. You shoot them, you're the most evil thing on the planet, even if it was self-defence/public safety etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

  7. #127
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,893
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    eta- Can someone make a concrete suggestion as to how to teach a child to be quiet,calm, and focused while in a large group of their peers? (This a serious request. I can't think of anything that doesn't involve attending school with him, and that is not allowed)
    I don’t think there is a “magic bullet” for improving in-school behavior.

    From what you say, it seems like the typical follow up a parent would/should do after a teacher report of inappropriate behavior didn’t work so it seems like you and the school need to work together in systematic, positive, manner to sort out the behavior issues. If his academic performance is affected by the behavior and the in-school consequences, then you have good grounds for requesting the school work with you to improve the situation so he can be academically successful.

    Immaturity is not necessarily a good reason for not adhering to age-appropriate expected behavior norms. If he is significantly more immature than what is considered normal for his age group, then you may need to look at psychological etc assessment. Otherwise, the in-school behavior expectations should be appropriate for his age.

    Assuming this is not the case, I think you should approach the school and work with them to have them determine the causes of the behavior. In my opinion, it’s hard to eliminate inappropriate behaviors in academic settings until you understand the reason for the behavior. The best way to do this is through something like a Functional Behavior Assessment (FBA) which can be real pains to do but, when done properly, really help pinpoint the what and give some good indicators as to the why. I think until you understand exactly what he is doing (being goofy isn’t really precise) and why he does it (attention? avoidance? impulsivity?) then you can’t address ways to improve the behavior.

    Once you have a good understanding of the what and the why, then you can work together as an educational team (parents, teachers, guidance, administrators) to come up with a targeted plan to address and improve the behavior. Typically, if there are a lot of different behaviors at play, you target one or two and develop a strategy to modify the behavior. This can involve a wide range of approaches such as targeting what triggers the behavior, teaching alternative responses, giving positive consequences for appropriate replacement behavior and so on. There’s a wide range of options.

    Anyway, I think your first step is to contact the teacher(s) and have them describe precisely what he does and how it affects his academic performance. Then, contact your son’s guidance counselor and find out what the school can do to help your son improve his behavior in class. Advocate for him and don’t take no for an answer but be willing to work with the school .

    This website seems to have some good information about FBAs, at least at first glance. It is written with the assumption that the student has an IEP but a student does not need to have an IEP to have a FBA.

  8. #128

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,897
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    5459
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Well, fine. If you want them to pull their gun...


    This is what pisses me off no end about society's attitude to the police. You taser them, you're inhumane. You shoot them, you're the most evil thing on the planet, even if it was self-defence/public safety etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    I expect that you are not in any "minority" grouping? Your opinions on the police might change a little if you were.

  9. #129
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
    Posts
    4,418
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Well, fine. If you want them to pull their gun...
    Yes, because of course tasers and guns are the only two possible ways of dealing with a suspect. An unarmed, 11-year-old suspect.

    This is what pisses me off no end about society's attitude to the police. You taser them, you're inhumane. You shoot them, you're the most evil thing on the planet, even if it was self-defence/public safety etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    If you'd actually bothered to read my post, you'll have seen that I said that I wasn't automatically blaming the police ... I just wasn't automatically assuming they were right either. There are bad apples in every profession, why would the police be any different?

    The only black and white part of this issue is the colour of the police car. Trying to apply absolutes on either side doesn't do anyone any good.

  10. #130

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,761
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    14960
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I expect that you are not in any "minority" grouping? Your opinions on the police might change a little if you were.
    Trust me mate, in my city, and especially on my university campus, I am definitely in the minority.

    Why should it change my opinions on the police? The police are there to uphold the law. There occasionally are bad apples. There are in every bunch. But ultimately the police ought to be respected because they do a pretty sh!tty job in my opinion. They have to deal with the scum of the earth, the worst in humanity, on a daily basis, regardless of "minority grouping". They have to do the work, catch the crooks, and watch the so-called "justice" system give them a light slap on the wrist and let them loose in society again. In my city there was a rapist - tried and convicted! - who got weekend detention! If I was one of the officers involved in that case, I'd have felt like bashing my head against something.

    Police cop the worst from people and they're not protected. It's somehow okay to bash up a police person. It's somehow okay to swear and abuse them, it's somehow okay to king hit them and disable them for life. (I am not joking - a man in Perth king-hit a police officer from behind. The officer was paralysed. There was clear CCTV footage of the incident in which the offender was identifiable and several eyewitnesses. The offender got off.)

    I reckon it's a pretty bloody awful enditement on society when amongst my age group, people seem to think the police are "party wreckers" and "fun killers", and that the appropriate reaction if you see a policeman is to run away. Or when someone starts fleeing a policeman and gets killed, it's all the police's fault and the person dead is somehow a little angel.

    *

    @Artemis@BC, the gun, taser or pepper spray BECOMES the only way of dealing with someone who WILL NOT respond to ANY technique you use to try and talk them down.

    And the boy in this story was 8, armed with a wooden stick (which could do a lot of damage if wielded against a person) and in a rage. If they could not talk him down out of this rage, pepper spray was the next appropriate solution. Why should the police have to have their bodies used as punching bags?

  11. #131
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    23,837
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Trust me mate, in my city, and especially on my university campus, I am definitely in the minority.
    Really? Who constitutes the majority then? From what I can tell, Asians make up less than 10% of the population in Canberra, and Aboriginals another 1%.
    If they could not talk him down out of this rage
    I thought the contention was there wasn't an attempt to talk the child down unlike previous police interventions where they did do that because the previous police who intervened had been trained to deal with special needs children.

  12. #132

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,897
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    5459
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Trust me mate, in my city, and especially on my university campus, I am definitely in the minority.
    I have a hard time believing that you are in the minority in your city based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra#Demographics

    I can't speak for the police in Australia but in the UK the racism exhibited by the police towards people who are not white is very clear. The examples of police stopping and searching non white males without suspicion exclipses the number of white male suspects. There have been undercvoer reports on many of the police authorities showing, racism, sexism and homophobia. One quick wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater...ce#Controversy

  13. #133

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Thankfukky watching skating
    Posts
    13,122
    vCash
    317
    Rep Power
    17638
    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Really? Who constitutes the majority then? From what I can tell, Asians make up less than 10% of the population in Canberra, and Aboriginals another 1%. I thought the contention was there wasn't an attempt to talk the child down unlike previous police interventions where they did do that because the previous police who intervened had been trained to deal with special needs children.
    I was under the impression that the police asked him to drop the stick & he refused.

    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I have a hard time believing that you are in the minority in your city based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra#Demographics

    I can't speak for the police in Australia but in the UK the racism exhibited by the police towards people who are not white is very clear. The examples of police stopping and searching non white males without suspicion exclipses the number of white male suspects. There have been undercvoer reports on many of the police authorities showing, racism, sexism and homophobia. One quick wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater...ce#Controversy
    How does race come into this? The 8yr old is white. I'm with MissKarne on this. ALWAYS 2nd guessing the big bad police gets really old. Minorities who teach their children that the police are bad men & who treat the police as enemies are part of the problem.

  14. #134
    engaged to dupa
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Heaven for climate, Hell for company.
    Posts
    18,917
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1083
    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post

    How does race come into this?
    Have you read any other of misskarne's posts?
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  15. #135

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    My house
    Posts
    4,742
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3655
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    Yes, because of course tasers and guns are the only two possible ways of dealing with a suspect. An unarmed, 11-year-old suspect.
    This 11 year old had already stabbed a man and was in placement. Does anybody know what he did to be in placement? And sure, the wound wasn't life threatening, but stabbing someone is a pretty violent act.

  16. #136
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    City of Troy, Rensselaer County, NY
    Age
    39
    Posts
    2,494
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Minorities who teach their children that the police are bad men & who treat the police as enemies are part of the problem.
    Yes, this. If you lived anywhere in my area, you'd hear it all the time about the Arbor Hill neighborhood in Albany, NY, or Hamilton Hill in Schenectady, two primarily "minority" neighborhoods. Every time there's a shooting or stabbing, etc. they all come out of the woodwork and complain, but then again, at the same time they do little to nothing to help the police solve the crime. It's that "no snitching" bullshit mentality.
    Last edited by Karina1974; 04-14-2011 at 08:00 PM.

  17. #137
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
    Posts
    4,418
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    @Artemis@BC, the gun, taser or pepper spray BECOMES the only way of dealing with someone who WILL NOT respond to ANY technique you use to try and talk them down.

    And the boy in this story was 8, armed with a wooden stick (which could do a lot of damage if wielded against a person) and in a rage. If they could not talk him down out of this rage, pepper spray was the next appropriate solution. Why should the police have to have their bodies used as punching bags?
    My post was about the case of the 11-year-old boy being tasered. Details are still sketchy, but the reports so far indicate that he was unarmed at the time, and no other technique was used to try to "talk him down" -- the police went straight to the taser.

    Of course a great deal of blame should go to those who set the policies for police use of force. After the Robert Dziekański case, there's no excuse not to view taser use with a great deal more caution. Plus tasers have never been tested on children -- that alone should indicate a zero use in cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badams View Post
    This 11 year old had already stabbed a man and was in placement. Does anybody know what he did to be in placement? And sure, the wound wasn't life threatening, but stabbing someone is a pretty violent act.
    I'm not sure what "in placement" means in your neck of the woods, but he was actually in foster care. This happens when his parents are unable to care for him or his home life is otherwise unsafe or unsuitable.

  18. #138

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    My house
    Posts
    4,742
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3655
    According to Taborview Programs website, it is private company which offers rural group homes for youth at risk. The company is owned by Prince George entrepreneur George 'Jordy' Hoover.
    The kids are some of the roughest in the province - I've been told anyways - but in our case, because we offer them work all summer...they are very respectful," Mothus said.
    This sounds like more than a simple foster care situation to me.

  19. #139

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,862
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    978
    I don't know the details about the 11 year-old taser incident thus won't comment, but I believe that if someone, even an 8 year-old, puts someone else's life in danger or at risk of injury, then the police have the right to use necessary means to subdue/apprehend that child. IMO, a child's life is not necessarily more valuable than the police officer's or a teacher's, especially when that child is attempting harm or threatening with a weapon. The adults may have children of their own they need to stay alive for. My first thought is that the police should have first tried to use other means to subdue the child and only taser at last resort, but sometimes things happen so fast, someone is hurt or killed in the blink of an eye, and the police needed to control the situation as soon as possible to minimize the risk to others.

  20. #140

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,897
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    5459
    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    How does race come into this? The 8yr old is white.
    I was no longer discussing this case. MissKarne was going on about how police should always be respected/their judgment is always right etc and I commented that that is not always the case if you belong to a minority group.

    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I'm with MissKarne on this. ALWAYS 2nd guessing the big bad police gets really old. Minorities who teach their children that the police are bad men & who treat the police as enemies are part of the problem.
    I don't know many minority families who teach their children that the police are bad men. The friends I have become tired of the harassment they get from police officers because of their skin colour, but they no better than to kick up a fuss. So they simply put up with it knowing there's nothing they can actually do. The witness and experience the racism. There are many studies that back it up, and while there are procedures and policies in place to try to improve things, change seemingly takes a very long time.
    Last edited by antmanb; 04-15-2011 at 11:53 AM.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •