The fastest thing out of New Jersey since Tricky Nicky in a Muscovian handbasket
I haven't read the entire thread but this is making headlines in my part of the world.
I have a lot of sympathy for the police in these situations. They are making split second decisions in stressful situations. It looks bad but somehow I doubt that some police officer just tasered or pepper sprayed a kid without a really good reason.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett
And despite the Robert Dziekański case, police are still inclined to view tasering as a completely harmless was of subduing a suspect.
But no snap judgments here, let the investigation tell us what happened.
I have numerous squirrels where I live, and had one follow me from my house to my car and back. People here feed them, so they become fairly tame when seeking food. It's likely that squirrel was used to being fed. Rabies in small mammals like squirrels is fairly unusual, so this cop was likely in no danger.I am not familiar with squirrel behavior but do they usually chase people? If not, perhaps his concern with the squirrel being rabid is justified?
I had a cousin who was supposed to be ADD-He spent his time torturing his cousins and teachers, throwing one of them down the stairs. When he threatened an aunt, she snatched him up and told him in no uncertain terms that if he even looked at her side ways, ever, he was going to wish HE had been the one tossed down the stairs. After that, he was a perfect angel to her, and always addressed her respectfully. Kid was just an animal who was indulged terribly. In his case, I think they perpetuated the "disorder" to keep the government assistance gravy train they were receiving steaming full speed ahead.
Pepper spraying the squirrel? No. The kid? Probably the best thing to do in the circumstances.
Well, fine. If you want them to pull their gun...
This is what pisses me off no end about society's attitude to the police. You taser them, you're inhumane. You shoot them, you're the most evil thing on the planet, even if it was self-defence/public safety etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
From what you say, it seems like the typical follow up a parent would/should do after a teacher report of inappropriate behavior didn’t work so it seems like you and the school need to work together in systematic, positive, manner to sort out the behavior issues. If his academic performance is affected by the behavior and the in-school consequences, then you have good grounds for requesting the school work with you to improve the situation so he can be academically successful.
Immaturity is not necessarily a good reason for not adhering to age-appropriate expected behavior norms. If he is significantly more immature than what is considered normal for his age group, then you may need to look at psychological etc assessment. Otherwise, the in-school behavior expectations should be appropriate for his age.
Assuming this is not the case, I think you should approach the school and work with them to have them determine the causes of the behavior. In my opinion, it’s hard to eliminate inappropriate behaviors in academic settings until you understand the reason for the behavior. The best way to do this is through something like a Functional Behavior Assessment (FBA) which can be real pains to do but, when done properly, really help pinpoint the what and give some good indicators as to the why. I think until you understand exactly what he is doing (being goofy isn’t really precise) and why he does it (attention? avoidance? impulsivity?) then you can’t address ways to improve the behavior.
Once you have a good understanding of the what and the why, then you can work together as an educational team (parents, teachers, guidance, administrators) to come up with a targeted plan to address and improve the behavior. Typically, if there are a lot of different behaviors at play, you target one or two and develop a strategy to modify the behavior. This can involve a wide range of approaches such as targeting what triggers the behavior, teaching alternative responses, giving positive consequences for appropriate replacement behavior and so on. There’s a wide range of options.
Anyway, I think your first step is to contact the teacher(s) and have them describe precisely what he does and how it affects his academic performance. Then, contact your son’s guidance counselor and find out what the school can do to help your son improve his behavior in class. Advocate for him and don’t take no for an answer but be willing to work with the school .
This website seems to have some good information about FBAs, at least at first glance. It is written with the assumption that the student has an IEP but a student does not need to have an IEP to have a FBA.
If you'd actually bothered to read my post, you'll have seen that I said that I wasn't automatically blaming the police ... I just wasn't automatically assuming they were right either. There are bad apples in every profession, why would the police be any different?This is what pisses me off no end about society's attitude to the police. You taser them, you're inhumane. You shoot them, you're the most evil thing on the planet, even if it was self-defence/public safety etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
The only black and white part of this issue is the colour of the police car. Trying to apply absolutes on either side doesn't do anyone any good.
Why should it change my opinions on the police? The police are there to uphold the law. There occasionally are bad apples. There are in every bunch. But ultimately the police ought to be respected because they do a pretty sh!tty job in my opinion. They have to deal with the scum of the earth, the worst in humanity, on a daily basis, regardless of "minority grouping". They have to do the work, catch the crooks, and watch the so-called "justice" system give them a light slap on the wrist and let them loose in society again. In my city there was a rapist - tried and convicted! - who got weekend detention! If I was one of the officers involved in that case, I'd have felt like bashing my head against something.
Police cop the worst from people and they're not protected. It's somehow okay to bash up a police person. It's somehow okay to swear and abuse them, it's somehow okay to king hit them and disable them for life. (I am not joking - a man in Perth king-hit a police officer from behind. The officer was paralysed. There was clear CCTV footage of the incident in which the offender was identifiable and several eyewitnesses. The offender got off.)
I reckon it's a pretty bloody awful enditement on society when amongst my age group, people seem to think the police are "party wreckers" and "fun killers", and that the appropriate reaction if you see a policeman is to run away. Or when someone starts fleeing a policeman and gets killed, it's all the police's fault and the person dead is somehow a little angel.
@Artemis@BC, the gun, taser or pepper spray BECOMES the only way of dealing with someone who WILL NOT respond to ANY technique you use to try and talk them down.
And the boy in this story was 8, armed with a wooden stick (which could do a lot of damage if wielded against a person) and in a rage. If they could not talk him down out of this rage, pepper spray was the next appropriate solution. Why should the police have to have their bodies used as punching bags?
I thought the contention was there wasn't an attempt to talk the child down unlike previous police interventions where they did do that because the previous police who intervened had been trained to deal with special needs children.If they could not talk him down out of this rage
I can't speak for the police in Australia but in the UK the racism exhibited by the police towards people who are not white is very clear. The examples of police stopping and searching non white males without suspicion exclipses the number of white male suspects. There have been undercvoer reports on many of the police authorities showing, racism, sexism and homophobia. One quick wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater...ce#Controversy
Last edited by Karina1974; 04-14-2011 at 08:00 PM.
Of course a great deal of blame should go to those who set the policies for police use of force. After the Robert Dziekański case, there's no excuse not to view taser use with a great deal more caution. Plus tasers have never been tested on children -- that alone should indicate a zero use in cases like this.
According to Taborview Programs website, it is private company which offers rural group homes for youth at risk. The company is owned by Prince George entrepreneur George 'Jordy' Hoover.This sounds like more than a simple foster care situation to me.The kids are some of the roughest in the province - I've been told anyways - but in our case, because we offer them work all summer...they are very respectful," Mothus said.
I don't know the details about the 11 year-old taser incident thus won't comment, but I believe that if someone, even an 8 year-old, puts someone else's life in danger or at risk of injury, then the police have the right to use necessary means to subdue/apprehend that child. IMO, a child's life is not necessarily more valuable than the police officer's or a teacher's, especially when that child is attempting harm or threatening with a weapon. The adults may have children of their own they need to stay alive for. My first thought is that the police should have first tried to use other means to subdue the child and only taser at last resort, but sometimes things happen so fast, someone is hurt or killed in the blink of an eye, and the police needed to control the situation as soon as possible to minimize the risk to others.
Last edited by antmanb; 04-15-2011 at 11:53 AM.