Police Pepper Spray 8 Yr Old

[CantALoop]

At first I was like at the headline, but when I think about it, that was probably the best option because the officers could subdue the kid without any physical contact.

That's probably why the teachers got chased in a closet as well - even if they were physically capable of subduing the kid, it wouldn't look good in court if the brat got any bruises or injuries if someone tried to wrestle and subdue him.

[taf2002]

An 8 year old boy? The police couldn't just pick him up? Really?

At first I was like at the headline, but when I think about it, that was probably the best option because the officers could subdue the kid without any physical contact.

That's probably why the teachers got chased in a closet as well - even if they were physically capable of subduing the kid, it wouldn't look good in court if the brat got any bruises or injuries if someone tried to wrestle and subdue him.

I agree. It can be very dicey for a non-family member to touch a child. The mother says the pepper spray was too much, but she would be the 1st one screaming police brutality if the police had picked him up & taken the stick away from him.

[danceronice]

Does calling him a snowflake mean he's so special that the rules don't apply to him?

Play on the whole "Everyone is a special snowflake--unique!" And people who buy into this tend to think rules don't apply them. I'm sure he's been told he's got a disorder and nothing is his fault.

[FigureSpins]

Why doesn't the child just take his test in another (quiet) room or the library? If it's an issue of missing the new material, someone can take notes while the child is gone and pass it on.

Maybe an inclusion specialist/school social worker needs to work with the teacher to come up with a better accommodation plan.

I don't know why this was the solution. He doesn't have an aide with him. He's a nice kid, very smart, but has special needs for taking tests. Do I as the parent of another student have the right to challenge this solution? I honestly don't know and I'm leery of being called insensitive, but really, my kids should be learning in school, not twiddling their thumbs for long periods of time.

This teacher only gives out homework after DH and I have a conference with her and ask about homework. That lasts two weeks and then there's no homework until the next parent:teacher conference. I think she's milking this "take your time" situation so she doesn't have to teach. One of other kids in the class (who is a gossip) says she reads magazines and shushes them until the boy finally finishes.

There's a new principal coming in (the old one retired suddenly on 2/28) so I'll see if that changes anything with her classroom/homework. My kids are going to be in the same class with him for another year because they're in the same honors class for english and math.

[agalisgv]

I think she's milking this "take your time" situation so she doesn't have to teach. One of other kids in the class (who is a gossip) says she reads magazines and shushes them until the boy finally finishes.

Sounds like it to be honest. Not only does it cheat your children out education time, it makes the boy stand out more from his peers--not a good integration plan.

Would it be possible to transfer to another class? I ask because it sounds like the teacher is trying to get out of work, and that won't change even if the accommodation plan is altered. You could (and probably should) talk to the principal about it though.

[FigureSpins]

A transfer's not an option: there's only one "honors" class for the grade level. They're allegedly doing high school work. It makes me wonder what they could be doing if they weren't playing the waiting game and not being assigned homework. I know this teacher wasn't supposed to be their math teacher, but the original person hired for September wasn't certified properly for the high school math, so she had to take over the class. I guess she's burned out or ticked off. Whenever we talk to her, she's all sunshine and flowers, emphatic that they're all doing so well, but I don't think that's really the case.

We had to ask for a waiver to send the girls here instead of our zoned school, sacrificing school bus service because we're off the transportion map. The reading percentiles at the zoned school are 39% on or above grade level, compared to this school's 70%. My kids read at a level several years higher than their grade and I didn't want to chance seeing those numbers drop.

The new principal can't come soon enough for me. Even if no one says anything, the teachers will be performing because there are plenty of qualified instructors willing to take their place. I think there was an "old boys/girls" network under the former principal, so some teachers took advantage of his good nature.

[rjblue]

My son was an extremely obedient, cooperative, quiet preschooler. I could take him to church at 2 years old, and never miss a word of the mass. Everyone who babysat for me commented on how easy he was to look after, because he always did what was asked, and never fussed when answered with "no".

I was absolutely floored when his kindergarten teacher commiserated with me on what a handful he was. My little boy who would sit for an hour to be read to, or play with lego for hours, and demanded very little attention, could not sit still at school at all.

To this day (grade eight), he still is a completely different child at home and at school. And I'm still struggling with the concept that I'm supposed to make my loving, polite, helpful son feel sad and angry at home because the teachers are unhappy with his behavior.

[numbers123]

You want to act like a big boy then you will get treated like a big boy, I say...

I understand the mother is going to wish they didn't have to pepper spray her son but let's get real. This sounds like the type of mother who will find any excuse for her child. That is probably a big reason why he has such behavior issues, he has probably never been held accountable or disciplined correctly. Also, pepper spray is not going to kill or maim you. It isn't as if they shot him or used a stun gun. He will be fine.

For the record, I don't believe this ONLY happens at school. Not for a second.

While this may be true, it not be true. Having had a difficult child myself, I can't tell you how many people told me that I didn't hold him accountable for his actions. Which was totally untrue - several agencies would tell you that I held him accountable for his actions.

I was always a better parent before I had children.

That said I saw the interviews on the today show - and on the surface I agree that the mother is not holding him accountable for his actions. The amount of press time/attention that both child and mother are getting = they seem to thrive on it.

[Ziggy]

Article

Wow! At first I was pretty appalled, but then I read the entire article. The kid had a stick and was threatening his teachers. Chased them into a closet or something like that, and said if they came out, they'd die. He'd thrown chairs and turned over a TV cart by the time the police arrived. His mom, of course, faults the police.

You're talking about an 8 year old. A grown up police officer could have easily restrained him without the use of pepper spray, Taser or tear gas.

[orbitz]

You're talking about an 8 year old. A grown up police officer could have easily restrained him without the use of pepper spray, Taser or tear gas.

An 8 years old can bite, scratch, kick, etc. Yeah, the police officer will eventually be able to subdue him but not without getting scratches and bruises on him and probably also get bruises on the kid, which will of course be photographed and broadcasted on the local evening news.

[IceAlisa]

The boy was armed with a sharp, pointy piece of wood. Why should the police officer risk injury to himself or the boy if they could use pepper spray? Plus said 8 year old doesn't look like a delicate flower.

[Prancer]

You're talking about an 8 year old. A grown up police officer could have easily restrained him without the use of pepper spray, Taser or tear gas.

Easily? Are you sure? Have you ever tried to restrain an enraged kid who has an emotional or behavioral disorder?

When I was volunteering in the clinic at my kids' elementary school, there was a little boy in first grade who used to pitch massive fits. He was a slight little thing and weighed maybe 30 pounds. It took six adults to pick him up and carry him to the office one day, and I ended up having to clean wounds on five of those adults; one had to leave to get stitches. The kid was covered with bruises, although it's hard to say how many were from rough handling and how many were from what he was doing before he was restrained. That was the worst day, but it was far from the only day. And he didn't even have a diagnosed disorder, if he had a disorder at all.

Many years ago, I taught a class for teachers who worked with emotionally and behaviorally disturbed children. They all had the scars--literal and emotional--to show for it. Some of those little kids are psychotic, and like psychotic adults, they have strength way above what their size would indicate when they are in psychosis. And all of the kids, because they are disturbed, have completely different emotional responses to situations involving other people than do most children. Most children will respond to adult authority; some will fight adults to defend themselves. But a handful of these kids actually want to hurt somebody and have no fear at all about facing down an adult because they have already figured out that adults--most of them, anyway--don't want to hurt them.

I actually think pepper spray would be better for the kid than trying to tackle him and wrestle him down. He is far more likely to get hurt that way, and so are the police officers.

[IceAlisa]

I've heard stories from mental health care providers of 90 lbs patients picking up and throwing a four poster metal bed like it was nothing. Adrenaline is a powerful thing.

[Flatfoote]

Re: the kid's mother saying he doesn't act like that at home. She could be like the mother a friend of mine describes on another board. She recently said this in one of her posts: At one time her younger one was kicked out of school for being violent and she said "well, you are pushing his buttons, what do you expect, just let him have his way and this won't happen." No wonder some kids have meltdowns at school they wouldn't have at home (I say "some" kids in recognition of some posts here that have shared thier personal experiences that their kid is indeed a different child at school than at home).

[millyskate]

Easily? Are you sure? Have you ever tried to restrain an enraged kid who has an emotional or behavioral disorder?

.

ITA. I did some work experience at a center for disabled children, and there was a 6 year old so strong that all adults would stand well clear when he had fits and became angry.

And Flatfoote, I also agree with your theory. If the child threatens a tantrum each time he doesn't get his way, it could well be the mother avoids trouble by yielding to his every whim.

[DianeO]

My daughter has a girl in her class that acts out, not as bad as this boy yet, but they are only 4. Her parents tell everyone it's ok, because she's "ODD". Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Nevermind trying to work with the child to better deal with the issue, just throw a diagnosis on it and let it continue. Some parents seem to use a diagnosis as an excuse, and just continue to be lazy parents. I feel bad for the well behaved kids who have to deal with this nonsense.

Exactly. That's the sad thing about society today. So many (not all) parents are just looking for a diagnosis to take the blame off of them for their poor or lazy parenting. I teach kindergarten and have seen my share of kids with behavior problems. I'd say there was really only 1 boy at that age that IMO needed a real diagnosis and could not help himself or control his actions (pretty sure he was autistic but the parents wouldn't accept that). The rest of them were spoiled rotten, never taught any manners, or just sought tons of attention they probably never got at home. "ODD" is one of the most ridiculous things they have ever come up with. Oppositional Defiant Disorder pretty much screams "I've never taught my child any respect for authority", yet people get away with it and expect sympathy.

[numbers123]

DianeO -I respect what you have seen in the classroom, but have you ever lived with a child diagnosed as ODD? Seeing them in a classroom setting is different than living day in and day out with a child with a disorder. Sure some of the kids are "spoiled brats" as you call them, but some are truly ill.
Having worked in a setting with special needs children, some austism some with true mental health issues and some who have had severe brain trauma, they can react differently in every setting.

Again, I am not saying that there is or is not parenting behaviors that play into this, but we should also look at the possibility that this child has mental health issues.

like others in this thread, I think that pepper spray was a kinder effort at restraining him and prevent further injury to other classmates and the staff. I am not quoting him directly as I can not remember the exact words, but the amount of rage directed at the school and the classroom teachers/students was astonishing.

[Karina1974]

Article

Wow! At first I was pretty appalled, but then I read the entire article. The kid had a stick and was threatening his teachers. Chased them into a closet or something like that, and said if they came out, they'd die. He'd thrown chairs and turned over a TV cart by the time the police arrived. His mom, of course, faults the police.

We had an incident over the weekend around here, where a couple of teen boys got into a fight at a roller rink (thankfully not the one I skate at!) that escalated outside. The cops were called, split up the boys, and one, 13 years old, tried going after a few kids in the crowd, as well as the boy he had been fighting with. He ended up getting Tasered. So, now there's an uproar about that... "he was only 13!!!" - Yeah... when my brothers were both 13-14, they were already pushing 6' tall, so...

And, yes, I think he deserved what he got. I was raised with the notion of behaving myself and doing what I was told by whoever is in charge, or I would suffer the consequences.

[danceronice]

I've heard stories from mental health care providers of 90 lbs patients picking up and throwing a four poster metal bed like it was nothing. Adrenaline is a powerful thing.

Yeah, I've restrained a third-grader having a violent episode, and honestly it's easier to break up a dog fight. (Without going into confidential detail, I will say that was NOT a child who was a spoiled brat acting out, he had some serious reasons beyond his control for his behavior. Why his parents/our company didn't think a specialist aide was necessary I don't know.)

And as someone mentioned upthread, you TOUCH a kid, you are putting yourself at huge risk. I only resorted to physical restraint in the above example because it involved another child and a bladed object. Our male employees, all perfectly nice and criminally background-checked to boot, were told to NEVER hug any child or let them sit so they were touching or heaven forbid sit on their lap. When it's a kid, if I'm a cop, I'll go for hands-off, too.

numbers123--the thing is, if a child is THAT difficult, I really don't care if they have a disorder or not. In fact, especially if it's a condition where discipline's not going to fix a chemical problem, if they become that disruptive they need a full-time aide or to be removed and placed in a controlled situation. If they're dangerous, violent, or simply so disruptive they're having a major negative impact on the other children then no, their need to feel and be treated 'normally' should not be taken into consideration. Whatever happened to the good of the majority outweighing the good of one person who by definition isn't normal?

[numbers123]

numbers123--the thing is, if a child is THAT difficult, I really don't care if they have a disorder or not. In fact, especially if it's a condition where discipline's not going to fix a chemical problem, if they become that disruptive they need a full-time aide or to be removed and placed in a controlled situation. If they're dangerous, violent, or simply so disruptive they're having a major negative impact on the other children then no, their need to feel and be treated 'normally' should not be taken into consideration. Whatever happened to the good of the majority outweighing the good of one person who by definition isn't normal?

I agree - that's why the place I used to work at existed. I just don't think we should jump to the conclusion that all kids who act out or are a threat in terms of violence are because the parents do not discipline them.