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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    ....
    Sure Mama Kim may have been a pill and a half to deal with, and maybe Yu-na is drama too (don't know the girl personally). But she was a skater you win with, which is why Kim herself wasn't fired.

    Now he's dealing with skaters who may not necessarily have the same competitive fire/talent.

    I think Orser is still a new coach and there is time for him to figure it out though.
    I think it is a big leap to assume what Yuna's mother's influence was (helpful or interfering)
    I'm sure she gets a good laugh at all the times she was pegged as crazy when she dusts off her daughter's OGM or sees her daughter's face on her country's currency.
    But I think it is a bigger leap to tag Rippon as not having competitive fire. I disagree with that.
    You are right Orser is a new coach and unfortunately for him his first student won OG so no matter how great his students did this season it was a downward projection. From the look on his face in the K&C I think Orser was the one with the most "head" issues this season.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclare View Post
    You are right Orser is a new coach and unfortunately for him his first student won OG
    I realize for some people the world begins and ends with YuNa, but she most definitely was not Orser's first student.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclare View Post
    I think it is a big leap to assume what Yuna's mother's influence was (helpful or interfering)
    I'm sure she gets a good laugh at all the times she was pegged as crazy when she dusts off her daughter's OGM or sees her daughter's face on her country's currency.
    But I think it is a bigger leap to tag Rippon as not having competitive fire. I disagree with that.
    You are right Orser is a new coach and unfortunately for him his first student won OG so no matter how great his students did this season it was a downward projection. From the look on his face in the K&C I think Orser was the one with the most "head" issues this season.
    I never said Rippon didn't have competitive fire, but he might not have the same competitive fire/talent as Kim had. Kim had her bad skates sure, but she's never finished of the podium at international competition. There are good skaters and competitors, and great ones.
    I realize for some people the world begins and ends with YuNa, but she most definitely was not Orser's first student.
    She was the first major one.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I'm actually feeling bad for Brian now. First he's skewered for being too public about his break up with Yu-na. Now its for saying nothing at all about Adam. I think saying nothing is better than airing dirty laundry in public. Its really none of our business in either case. This being said of course its fun to speculate.
    The only people who's making this into a big deal are the same ones who dragged they story of his previous breakup on for months. As a coach, he will have all kinds of students. Each one presents a different situation. Even the best coaches like Frank Caroll lost his star pupils from time to time.

  5. #145
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    wow, so many Yunabots in here.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I'm actually feeling bad for Brian now. First he's skewered for being too public about his break up with Yu-na. Now its for saying nothing at all about Adam. I think saying nothing is better than airing dirty laundry in public. Its really none of our business in either case. This being said of course its fun to speculate.
    Yeah I feel bad for Brian also. I never thought Brian would be a good coach for Adam though. I know Brian is an excellent skater with great tech skills but that doesn't make him a great coach instantly. Adam should have gone to a proven tech coach to work on his 3 axel.

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper View Post
    Does anyone know how much Briand had been involved in Adam's training in the past? If Adam has been training with him all along, what kind of technical changes can he expect? Wouldn't it be better for him to go to someone new, like Arutunian, for example?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0bIVfuh3-I
    the person alongside with Adam at kiss and cry zone would be Briand, I guess. as for the expected changes , I can only assume that with Wilson helping him polish his artistry, consistent triple axel with other improvement on jumping areas-like quads, maybe? but I think this coaching change is a temporary fix before finding someone else that fits the job like others said.


    and I guess the war would never end, huh?

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Yeah I feel bad for Brian also. I never thought Brian would be a good coach for Adam though. I know Brian is an excellent skater with great tech skills but that doesn't make him a great coach instantly. Adam should have gone to a proven tech coach to work on his 3 axel.
    I actually think its ridiculous go suggest that Brian not being able to help Adam with his 3axel means Brian can't teach the 3axel. I know Lambiel worked some with Mishin on the 3axel, (although not on a regular basis) and Lambiel never had a consistent 3axel. I don't think anyone doubts that Mishin is a brilliant jump coach. Of course maybe if Lambiel had been with Mishin on a more consistent basis the 3axel would be there. Talent/other factors imply.

    That being said absolutely I would think a coach with a background of teaching the 3axel is a better bet then someone who had it as a skater. Because teaching doesn't mean doing.

    I will hardly say its unfortunate that Brian has an OGM student. Most will never get that opportunity and he did do a great job with Yu-na. This being said I think being a coach is a learning process too, and Brian is still learning. I think ten years from now he'll be a much better coach.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I actually think its ridiculous go suggest that Brian not being able to help Adam with his 3axel means Brian can't teach the 3axel. I know Lambiel worked some with Mishin on the 3axel, (although not on a regular basis) and Lambiel never had a consistent 3axel. I don't think anyone doubts that Mishin is a brilliant jump coach. Of course maybe if Lambiel had been with Mishin on a more consistent basis.
    I thought Lambiel's 3 axel issue is was more due to his hip injuries Was it just his constant problem throughout his career?

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    I thought Lambiel's 3 axel issue is was more due to his hip injuries Was it just his constant problem throughout his career?
    It was always an inconsistent jump for him.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I actually think its ridiculous go suggest that Brian not being able to help Adam with his 3axel means Brian can't teach the 3axel. I know Lambiel worked some with Mishin on the 3axel, (although not on a regular basis) and Lambiel never had a consistent 3axel. I don't think anyone doubts that Mishin is a brilliant jump coach. Of course maybe if Lambiel had been with Mishin on a more consistent basis the 3axel would be there. Talent/other factors imply.

    That being said absolutely I would think a coach with a background of teaching the 3axel is a better bet then someone who had it as a skater. Because teaching doesn't mean doing.

    I will hardly say its unfortunate that Brian has an OGM student. Most will never get that opportunity and he did do a great job with Yu-na. This being said I think being a coach is a learning process too, and Brian is still learning. I think ten years from now he'll be a much better coach.

    No I wasn't suggesting that Brian can't teach 3 axel. Adam should have gone to a proven tech coach to practice 3axel so he would know it's "him" who just can't do it. By going to Brian, I think Adam would always have some douts because he hasn't really coached anyone with that jump. I know Brian has one of the best 3 axel but like you said being able to do the jump and being able to teach the jump is totally different. I think jumpers like Adam would make a better coach because he struggled so much on jumps that he had to work so much more harder. Someone like Midori, the jumps came so natural to her, I don't think she had to work much hard.. she probably wouldn't be a good jump coach because she was so gifted physically that she probably wouldn't understand struggles that Adam's been going through on 3axel. I am guessing Midori would tell him to just jump higher!
    Yeah I agree that Brian is still learning. He will be a better coach for sure.

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    No I wasn't suggesting that Brian can't teach 3 axel. Adam should have gone to a proven tech coach to practice 3axel so he would know it's "him" who just can't do it. By going to Brian, I think Adam would always have some douts because he hasn't really coached anyone with that jump. I know Brian has one of the best 3 axel but like you said being able to do the jump and being able to teach the jump is totally different. I think jumpers like Adam would make a better coach because he struggled so much on jumps that he had to work so much more harder. Someone like Midori, the jumps came so natural to her, I don't think she had to work much hard.. she probably wouldn't be a good jump coach because she was so gifted physically that she probably wouldn't understand struggles that Adam's been going through on 3axel. I am guessing Midori would tell him to just jump higher!
    Yeah I agree that Brian is still learning. He will be a better coach for sure.
    I don't know if we can assume that a great jumper can't teach jumps correctly. Some skaters are great jumpers precisely because they have great technique, and that great technique is something they worked extremely hard on to develop. But I think there is absolutely something to be said for someone having a proven track record of teaching those jumps.

    But sometimes if something came easy for someone as a skater it can be hard to have patience for those who don't get it right away.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I actually think its ridiculous go suggest that Brian not being able to help Adam with his 3axel means Brian can't teach the 3axel...

    ...That being said absolutely I would think a coach with a background of teaching the 3axel is a better bet then someone who had it as a skater. Because teaching doesn't mean doing....

    I will hardly say its unfortunate that Brian has an OGM student. Most will never get that opportunity and he did do a great job with Yu-na. This being said I think being a coach is a learning process too, and Brian is still learning. I think ten years from now he'll be a much better coach.
    I agree
    I said unfortunate only because it puts expectation on a person. It's hard to improve after your student wins OG.
    I think the same happened to Rippon this season he exceeded expectation early. He had a great skate at Japan Open it may have been a cheese event but he skated great and finished ahead of the current WC and Evgeni. Then went on to skate well at Skate Canada where I saw his 3A with my own eyes, (BTW). His season was better than last year of 3rd and 6th this year 3rd and 4th and was an alternate at the GPF. But he failed to meet continued expectation.
    I do think Yuna was Brian's first regular student. He may have given seminars but that is a far cry from being a head coach. Who has Orser ever taught a 3A to before?
    Orser had a long impressive personal career no one can ever argue that! But as a coach you are right it takes time to develop the mental strategies for each student cause everyone is different.

  14. #154

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    No I wasn't suggesting that Brian can't teach 3 axel. Adam should have gone to a proven tech coach to practice 3axel so he would know it's "him" who just can't do it. By going to Brian, I think Adam would always have some douts because he hasn't really coached anyone with that jum
    Just because one great technical coach can't teach you the 3axel, doesn't mean another technical coach won't be able to do so. It really is one of those things that sometimes someone can say something or do something that just cliques with a person.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Just because one great technical coach can't teach you the 3axel, doesn't mean another technical coach won't be able to do so. It really is one of those things that sometimes someone can say something or do something that just cliques with a person.
    I agree with you nearly on all points. I think everyone's communication style is different. I don't know if you are implying that Orser is a great technical coach, (I don't think you are) one day he may be but he needs to prove that at some point in the future.
    I think that is what Rippon is doing by going to a more technically experienced coach. I don't think it is an execution issue, like I said I saw him land them effortlessly in practice. I think it was more of an issue of landing them in pressure situations and that is why a more technically experienced person may know more about this. (than me, you and Orser)
    My hunch is that if he was permitted to work whenever he wanted to with this Briand this season he would not have made any announcement about a coaching change.
    Here is his 4CC FS video from last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pHhqa7b1yA
    He was in 7th place more than 12 points out of first then went on to win the competition by almost 10 points.
    Here is the FS video from 4CC from this year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBW_fyrSyUM He was in a stronger position, 5th after the short with less ground to make up. But he ended up more than 12 points from the podium. PJ said in the first video that Briand was with him at the boards and in the kiss and cry in 2010. I think that is the guy Adam wants to work full time with.

  16. #156
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    Whether Kim's leaving Brian and going to Peter was a good move has yet to be put to the test, but will be in a couple of weeks, although ,even then, conclusions will only be speculations. I would like to see Mirai go to Brian, as much as I have admired Frank. And if not her, maybe Ashley.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Whether Kim's leaving Brian and going to Peter was a good move has yet to be put to the test, but will be in a couple of weeks, although ,even then, conclusions will only be speculations. I would like to see Mirai go to Brian, as much as I have admired Frank. And if not her, maybe Ashley.
    Mirai and Brian would be a horrible match, I think. Mirai's attitude, silliness, and inconsistencies in her trainings would probably drive him crazy. Ashley I could see working with him, though.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclare View Post
    Here is the FS video from 4CC from this year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBW_fyrSyUM He was in a stronger position, 5th after the short with less ground to make up. But he ended up more than 12 points from the podium. PJ said in the first video that Briand was with him at the boards and in the kiss and cry in 2010. I think that is the guy Adam wants to work full time with.
    Orser's reaction and body language toward Adam at K&C is icy cold and disconnected as if he is saying "I deserve a better skater." I mean Adam even turned his head to him but Orser ignores Adam flat. I think Adam made a good decision of dropping him. Brian should learn from this experience and be nice to Christina through thick and thin because she is his last chance to prove that he is a capable technical coach. First task he should accomplish is to fix her Flutz.
    Last edited by amaro; 04-03-2011 at 12:21 AM.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    wow, so many Yunabots in here.
    I think they're called Yunabombers, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amaro View Post
    Brian should learn from this experience and be nice to Christina through thick and thin because she is his last chance to prove that he is a capable coach.
    That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen or read. Orser coached the reigning Olympic champion to World and Olympic titles. He's more than a capable coach. So what if it isn't working with Adam, or stopped working with Yu-na. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

    Now is Brian the bestest coach ever? I'm not so sure about that. Just as I'm not sure that Yuka and Jason are the bestest of coaches ever either. I don't think the success of one student proves that. It takes time and practice to be great at anything.

    Its a ridiculous amount of pressure to put on Christina to say she proves whether or not Brian's a great coach. Talent matters too. You could be the best coach in the world but if the other coach has the better or more driven skater, well...The only thing Brian or Christina can control is Christina's skating. They can't control how good someone like Adelina is going to be.

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