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  1. #341

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    "Orserbots"

    One thing I was wondering about was the comments about Orser and Morosoz doing the programmes by the boards while their skaters are out on the ice and it being a sign that they're somehow more emotionally involved in the skaters outcome. Eurosport nearly always show the coach in the replays after the skater finishes and I'd say that nearly all of the coaches to exactly the same thing and go through every element along with their skater. Off the top of my head Ingo Steuer, TAT, Michael Huth, Frank Carol, Yuri Bureiko, Marius Suidek...there's loads more I can't bring to mind at this precise moment but they all seem to.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    "Orserbots"

    One thing I was wondering about was the comments about Orser and Morosoz doing the programmes by the boards while their skaters are out on the ice and it being a sign that they're somehow more emotionally involved in the skaters outcome. Eurosport nearly always show the coach in the replays after the skater finishes and I'd say that nearly all of the coaches to exactly the same thing and go through every element along with their skater. Off the top of my head Ingo Steuer, TAT, Michael Huth, Frank Carol, Yuri Bureiko, Marius Suidek...there's loads more I can't bring to mind at this precise moment but they all seem to.
    It's more of We love Canada. I thought overzealous fans only exist in Korea and Japan?

  3. #343

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    I hope the change is good for Adam's skating and results in the future. Love his style, his skating; and anyone who skates to the music of one of my favorite composers (Samuel Barber, unfortunately obscure!) has GOT to rock.

  4. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    I hope the change is good for Adam's skating and results in the future. Love his style, his skating; and anyone who skates to the music of one of my favorite composers (Samuel Barber, unfortunately obscure!) has GOT to rock.
    More Samuel Barber, please! I was rewatching Adam's performances of his LP last year at 4 Continents and Worlds and really loving the nuanced choreography.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk9tingfan View Post
    More Samuel Barber, please! I was rewatching Adam's performances of his LP last year at 4 Continents and Worlds and really loving the nuanced choreography.
    That performance makes me swoon..I love it!

  6. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Brian Orser has put the Cricket Club back in the list of top North American training centres which hasn't been the case since at least the 1970's. And despite hatred by the Yu-NaBots, he is a respected Canadian figure skater, coach and choreographer.

    Just because two of his students have changed coaches, I doubt he'll be booted out of the Cricket Club any time soon.
    I don't find Yu-na or Adam leaving to be a big deal. But I DO wonder about Adam leaving to go to a different coach at them same rink. And I wonder who the "advisors are" I mean didn't Adam's new coach work for Orser.

    That makes me wonder if something is going on. But it doesn't necessarily mean that Orser is leaving the Cricket Club, it could be Adam's new coach. Maybe though everything is fine at the Club too.

  7. #347
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    Adam is in the top five total scores for the season. That "ain't" bad. Achieving that under Orser is not something to scoff at. BUT if the boy isn't happy, I guess he should move on.
    As to whether he is moving on to something better, time will tell. But wholesale rejection of Orser's suggestions for off ice training does not bode well imo. Would be interesting to know why his team rejected it----on solid grounds or cause it came from Orser. Some will cut off their nose to spite their face.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    I generally sit back and learn from you guys, but Ziggy you really went over the top with this thing an Orser. This site is for talking about skating and skaters, and I would hope the positive elements of skating. If we wanted to, there is no coach that could standup to anything if we dug into their backgrounds, just like political figures. In fact, most of you would have the same issues as we all have things we do that could be questioned.

    I can tell you one thing after many years in this business about coaches. There are coaches who care and some that don't. i think you would all agree that Orser is a very competitive and caring coach. And there is only one thing that makes a person like that be very disappointed. And that is, your skater has the capacity to perform, has done it day in and day out, and now sits before you and seams to not understand what just happened. Not making jumps, that are done hundreds of times in practice, but blown in competition is a mental issue that goes beyond what any coach generally can control.

    Ziggy, you really need to stick to talk about skating, as comments like you made really ruin it for the rest of us. You not only hurt orser when you made that comment, you hurt skating, and everything about it. We all need to promote skating, our kids, and there coaches. Nobody is perfect, but folks, if you concentrate on whats wrong with everything, I can assure you, nothing will be right.
    Yes!! Thank you.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    As long as Rippon can't do a 3axel or quads he will continue to slide. The kids coming up in the US can jump and do triple axels.
    In the end, it's up to Rippon, no matter who his coach is. Coach's are the easy target, but the proof will be in the pudding. If he can't get his jumps, it won't matter who his coach is. I wish Adam good luck.
    Last edited by bbkenn; 04-12-2011 at 04:09 AM.

  10. #350

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    Didn't Rylie Mccullough Casarsa (sp?) leave Brian Orser within the last year as well? Sorry if this is off topic.

  11. #351
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    So reading between the lines what Rippon has said in the two articles, it seems that my criticism of Orser (the constructive part of it ) was valid.

    When writing my last post, I remembered another very awkward K&C situation. Kwak after an unsuccessful Worlds performance. Back then I attributed Orser's difficulty in behaving in that situation (he seemed rather lost) to the fact they have only been working together for a short time but put into the perspective of what's been happening between him and Adam this season, it looks like that could have only been part of the reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    Edited to add: it sounds like while they had their disagreements regarding Adam's training, the parting was respectful, and Brian owned up to issues regarding his emotions when his skaters compete. It sounds like this situation was handled well on both sides and they are both learning from it as they move on.
    It's very good to see Orser admitting it's an issue but what worries me slightly is that he's saying: "I get emotional because I care too much."

    Whilst it's true (people don't get emotional about things they don't care about), it's also a cop out in way. The vast majority of coaches care a lot, yet they are able to conduct themselves in a professional manner when things go wrong.

    Of course, Orser was talking to the press so he had to think PR. Phrasing it the way he did was very clever from that perspective.

    However, I'm hoping that privately he now accepts that it's an issue and is going to address it.

    It's great that Rippon was able to speak openly to Orser about this and given they have split on good terms and that Brian is making effort to maintain good relations with him, it looks that he didn't take Adam's criticism personally but accepted it and hopefully is going to learn from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Didn't Rylie Mccullough Casarsa (sp?) leave Brian Orser within the last year as well? Sorry if this is off topic.
    Yep, she did as well. I remember her starting to land 3lutzes two seasons ago but then she started stagnating and hasn't been doing very well recently. I think puberty has been very hard for her, very body shape seemed to have changed a lot.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 04-12-2011 at 11:15 AM.

  12. #352
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    Yea-Ji Joon also left Orser recently, and actually was skating a lot better before she went to Orser, although puberty and not the coaching change may be to blame. Still though, she seems to be doing better under her new coach in Korea.

    And Orser was very awkward with Min-Jung at Worlds last year, I had thought it was mainly due to the language barrier and that they had just started working together, but it seemed like he didn't know how to deal with her being upset. Also, not that Min-Jung was with Brian for long enough to really say if she improved under him or not, but her training situation seems to work pretty well for her, at least in the sense that she has gotten her jumps stronger and more consistent this season despite dealing with injuries, growthspurts, puberty, moving, etc. And she did place 6th at 4CC and 13th at the Olympics last season while training in Korea (without a coach even, i believe) but then was 22nd at Worlds after she had started training with Orser, so it's weird. It seems like Brian Orser is a good coach for a certain kind of skater, but not a great fit for others.

  13. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    It seems like Brian Orser is a good coach for a certain kind of skater, but not a great fit for others.
    Which makes him no different from any other coach.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  14. #354

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Which makes him no different from any other coach.
    At any level of skating.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    I just have a feeling that Brian is quite a difficult man. Just a hunch.
    Your hunch is quite correct.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    What kind of rep does Ghisland Briand have? Technician? Artist?
    He's very sub-standard as a coach on all fronts. But he's a social butterfly that can sell an anchor to a drowning man.

  17. #357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariko88 View Post
    He's very sub-standard as a coach on all fronts. But he's a social butterfly that can sell an anchor to a drowning man.
    And you would know all of this because?

  18. #358
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    I'm really glad that things worked out fine with the break up between Adam and Brian. I think the major difference between this one and Yuna and Brian's is that being Adam was being frank and straight forward. Yuna is Asian, and Asian people are in general not good at dealing difficult situation in a straight forward way. They tend to try to give hints and let the other party realize their intention. This doesn't work the way it intended to in the west. Patrick Chan's break up with his coach before the olympic was another example. The difference is that his coach got it and fired Patrick instead of being dumped. So I had no sympathy when the media played sympathy card about Patrick had to facing coach change in that short of time before the olympics. He was actually changed coach by choice. I was glad that Chan was honest and did not play together with the media to his favor and kept his mouth shut. As for Yuna and Brian, I really don't feel anything wrong for Yuna to leave Brian, that's quite normal for a skater to change coach, but it was Yuna's accusing Brian lying and other mean things that pissed me off. After all she got her OGM under Brian's coaching. She might be able to have done that with other coaches but the fact was that she chosed Brian. It is hard to believe that Brian had nothing to do with her OGM. There is an old Chinese saying that " When you received a waterdrop of favor, you pay it back with a gushing spring (fountain?)." I hope Gao will take notice and don't make the same mistake if she decide to leave too. If you're not happy with the coaching, spit it out and make it clear, don't do the try figure-it-out-yourself game. End the cooperation in good term is a good thing for both the skater and the coach.

    I wish Adam and Brian all the best. It's good to hear that Brian is aware of the problem and hopefully making some effort to improve his coaching style. Any way, the coach is there to make skaters confident and comfortable, not nervous and scared. I always feel sorry for skaters after a bad skate in the K&C when they were given hard face or left alone to swallow the bitterness. Coaches are supposed to help skaters to know what went wrong when things went wrong, and let the skaters feel that their coaches are always there for them no matter what. Coaches in the K&C are not just to share the glory, in fact, I think they shine when they behave in a professional and compasionate way when things were not that pretty.

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfanfun View Post
    Yuna is Asian, and Asian people are in general not good at dealing difficult situation in a straight forward way. They tend to try to give hints and let the other party realize their intention.
    Thank you for generalizing all Asians are like that.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfanfun View Post
    I'm really glad that things worked out fine with the break up between Adam and Brian. I think the major difference between this one and Yuna and Brian's is that being Adam was being frank and straight forward. Yuna is Asian, and Asian people are in general not good at dealing difficult situation in a straight forward way. They tend to try to give hints and let the other party realize their intention. This doesn't work the way it intended to in the west. Patrick Chan's break up with his coach before the olympic was another example. The difference is that his coach got it and fired Patrick instead of being dumped. So I had no sympathy when the media played sympathy card about Patrick had to facing coach change in that short of time before the olympics. He was actually changed coach by choice. I was glad that Chan was honest and did not play together with the media to his favor and kept his mouth shut. As for Yuna and Brian, I really don't feel anything wrong for Yuna to leave Brian, that's quite normal for a skater to change coach, but it was Yuna's accusing Brian lying and other mean things that pissed me off. After all she got her OGM under Brian's coaching. She might be able to have done that with other coaches but the fact was that she chosed Brian. It is hard to believe that Brian had nothing to do with her OGM. There is an old Chinese saying that " When you received a waterdrop of favor, you pay it back with a gushing spring (fountain?)." I hope Gao will take notice and don't make the same mistake if she decide to leave too. If you're not happy with the coaching, spit it out and make it clear, don't do the try figure-it-out-yourself game. End the cooperation in good term is a good thing for both the skater and the coach.

    I wish Adam and Brian all the best. It's good to hear that Brian is aware of the problem and hopefully making some effort to improve his coaching style. Any way, the coach is there to make skaters confident and comfortable, not nervous and scared. I always feel sorry for skaters after a bad skate in the K&C when they were given hard face or left alone to swallow the bitterness. Coaches are supposed to help skaters to know what went wrong when things went wrong, and let the skaters feel that their coaches are always there for them no matter what. Coaches in the K&C are not just to share the glory, in fact, I think they shine when they behave in a professional and compasionate way when things were not that pretty.
    So, you are saying;
    - Yuna is an Asian.
    - Asians are not straight-forward.
    - Yuna wasn't straight-forward.

    Borrowing your logic, I could say;
    - B is a Canadian.
    - Canadians are straight-forward.
    - B was straight-forward and exposed himself pissing on Yuna's mum all over the media.

    Good for B.
    Good luck with whatever is left of his coaching career.
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 04-17-2011 at 08:22 AM.

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