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  1. #41
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    Celebrity endorsement is a magic bullet, but it is a tough catch-22. Celebrities don't want to be associated with something seen as lame else they become lame by association. But an A-List Musician, Actor or Comedian would really help things out. Lady Gaga coming to the 2010 Olympic Gala if Weir was in it, was a prime example of a major lost opportunity. Regardless of what you change in the Ice shows or competitions, you still have to get people in the door. Hyping the sport as tough, although true, is a no-sale. Acceptance of this reality, is holding things back and making things worse.

  2. #42
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    No to going back to the 6.0 and we'd be back to the deals and judges cheating. No thanks.

    I enjoy the new point system and find it far more interesting then what it was previous. I don't think either system would change anyone's mind if they didn't consider it a sport before.

    The U.S. needs a U.S. woman star again. All of their sections do. Right now they have a star with Kim and ice dancing has gotten more exciting because the V&M and D&W battle has made the once boring ice dance very exciting!

    Except for the Nancy Kerrigan era I don't think figure skating was ever that high profile compared to other U.S. sports and I don't think it ever will be. I'm ok with that since I'm Canadian and get to watch my tv coverage

  3. #43

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    It may be that something in the future will grab the imagination of the American public the same way that Peggy Fleming or Dorothy Hamill or Michelle Kwan did, or the way that Tonya Harding did, and that interest in the sport will rise in the US again. That would be great.

    But I don't think you can manufacture that kind of interest. I would hate to see the sport abandon its own values in an effort to gain US audiences, especially in demographic groups that have never been especially interested in figure skating for its own sake.

    What if the audience just doesn't get interested after all but skaters are left with a sport that devalues skating skills in favor of entertainment value?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    and ice dancing has gotten more exciting because the V&M and D&W battle has made the once boring ice dance very exciting!
    I think having American dancers at the top of the game have made ice dancing more exciting, but really- I think the changes to ice dancing have made it more exciting. The free dances resemble NOTHING like what they used to- it's much more acrobatic now (and I'd say athletic...)

    I'm for using vocals, and glad that lower levels are allowed to in the US, because it makes it more accessible to skaters- hopefully that will funnel more skaters up the rank because they won't be bored skating to the same stuff year after year. I don't know how it would work internationally though, because if someone comes to Skate America with Finnish music, for example, will the audience connect to it at all?

    This is only marginally related, but a local club had it's largest attendence in years at their ice show- I think a lot of the success can be attributed to them using live singers for many of the numbers, included a very well known Broadway star (as well as two formerly local Broadway singers, and a few of the skaters, when they weren't skating, sang as well). We're in Iowa, so I imagine it wasn't easy for them to bring him in, but it definetly sold tickets. (I think some attribution also goes to a club skater who moved away performed, and everyone was excited to see him after he had gotten back from Junior Worlds- but I know it was the Broadway "name" who made me drive all the way up there)

    To make it related- maybe Gala's could do the same... I bet more people would go to Skate America if they knew that 1/4 of the gala music was being sung live, by people who you recognize the name of.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Unless you want to go back to 6.0 scoring.
    Oh yes, please?@!!!

    Personally, I think nude competitions would be a real ratings winner.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    Oh yes, please?@!!!

    Personally, I think nude competitions would be a real ratings winner.
    Either that or Yun-a should run off with Charlie Sheen

  7. #47
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    The ISU doesn't need to do anything; it's up to the national federations, coaches, and skaters to draw the audiences.

    All the U.S. needs for figure skating to become more popular as a spectator sport is for there to be one charismatic, homegrown female singles skater who is a reliable contender for an Olympic Gold Medal and at least one worthy rival. That rival doesn't have to be an American.

    It's happened before: Debi Thomas and Katarina Witt, Kristi Yamaguchi and Midori Ito, Michelle Kwan and Chen Lu/Tara Lipinski/Maria Butyrskaya/Irina Slutskaya).

    Mirai Nagasu is very close to being just what U.S. figure skating needs. I think that if she wins Nationals again, she will be a huge media star, and then finding a worthy rival probably won't be very difficult at all.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Either that or Yun-a should run off with Charlie Sheen

  9. #49
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    Here's an interesting article from awhile ago but it makes a lot of sense especially the impact the judging scandal had on figure skating. It personally took me a long time to come back to skating because it had totally turned me off. This is from a Canadian perspective but talks about the Americans too. I think the guy is right about perhaps the next generation will come come back to figure skating.

    http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/...f33805&k=57091

  10. #50
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    I wonder how much Michelle Kwan has to do with the interest decline in the US? For years it seemed as if the biggest rivalry in figure skating was Michelle fans vs Michelle nonfans! With her absence, the object of this rivalry is gone, one side has no one to root for, while the other has no one to root against!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    No to going back to the 6.0 and we'd be back to the deals and judges cheating. No thanks.

    I enjoy the new point system and find it far more interesting then what it was previous. I don't think either system would change anyone's mind if they didn't consider it a sport before.

    The U.S. needs a U.S. woman star again. All of their sections do. Right now they have a star with Kim and ice dancing has gotten more exciting because the V&M and D&W battle has made the once boring ice dance very exciting!

    Except for the Nancy Kerrigan era I don't think figure skating was ever that high profile compared to other U.S. sports and I don't think it ever will be. I'm ok with that since I'm Canadian and get to watch my tv coverage
    You don't think there are deals and cheating now? I have been recently youtubing a lot of videos from the 80's and 90's and while I have a pretty firm grasp on the new system, I have to say I found it to be a huge relief to watch long programs where the spirals are woven into choreography, most of the jumps are done without combos and have smooth gliding BOE landings, and spins that showcase one position without twisting, turning, and rocking back and forth on different edges. I would love to see the level 1 layback come back into style. Skaters in that era focused on what they could do best and created programs that showcased what they were good at. There is a real lack of creativity in skating today. As soon as one skater finds a way to achieve level 4, every skater down the list copies it. It started with Slutskaya in 2004 and hasn't changed much since.

    Remember the crazy moves of Ilia Klimkin? The only person who comes close to that kind of originality today is Shawn Sawyer, and he's basically sacrificing points by doing so.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    You don't think there are deals and cheating now? I have been recently youtubing a lot of videos from the 80's and 90's and while I have a pretty firm grasp on the new system, I have to say I found it to be a huge relief to watch long programs where the spirals are woven into choreography, most of the jumps are done without combos and have smooth gliding BOE landings, and spins that showcase one position without twisting, turning, and rocking back and forth on different edges. I would love to see the level 1 layback come back into style. Skaters in that era focused on what they could do best and created programs that showcased what they were good at. There is a real lack of creativity in skating today. As soon as one skater finds a way to achieve level 4, every skater down the list copies it. It started with Slutskaya in 2004 and hasn't changed much since.

    Remember the crazy moves of Ilia Klimkin? The only person who comes close to that kind of originality today is Shawn Sawyer, and he's basically sacrificing points by doing so.
    Actually no I find the skating and choreography much more interesting I think largely because the skater/dancers have to improve all their basic skating skills. Dance is more exciting because we now see movement instead of the predictable boringness of taking your turn to win.

    And no I think it's much harder to cheat.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    You don't think there are deals and cheating now? I have been recently youtubing a lot of videos from the 80's and 90's and while I have a pretty firm grasp on the new system, I have to say I found it to be a huge relief to watch long programs where the spirals are woven into choreography, most of the jumps are done without combos and have smooth gliding BOE landings, and spins that showcase one position without twisting, turning, and rocking back and forth on different edges. I would love to see the level 1 layback come back into style. Skaters in that era focused on what they could do best and created programs that showcased what they were good at. There is a real lack of creativity in skating today. As soon as one skater finds a way to achieve level 4, every skater down the list copies it. It started with Slutskaya in 2004 and hasn't changed much since.

    Remember the crazy moves of Ilia Klimkin? The only person who comes close to that kind of originality today is Shawn Sawyer, and he's basically sacrificing points by doing so.
    Come on, you don't think it was much easier to "cheat" under the old 6.0 system of scoring? It is still possible now, and I'm not denying it's existence, but it is much more difficult to pull off a LaGougne now.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    You don't think there are deals and cheating now? I have been recently youtubing a lot of videos from the 80's and 90's and while I have a pretty firm grasp on the new system, I have to say I found it to be a huge relief to watch long programs where the spirals are woven into choreography, most of the jumps are done without combos and have smooth gliding BOE landings, and spins that showcase one position without twisting, turning, and rocking back and forth on different edges. I would love to see the level 1 layback come back into style. Skaters in that era focused on what they could do best and created programs that showcased what they were good at. There is a real lack of creativity in skating today. As soon as one skater finds a way to achieve level 4, every skater down the list copies it. It started with Slutskaya in 2004 and hasn't changed much since.

    Remember the crazy moves of Ilia Klimkin? The only person who comes close to that kind of originality today is Shawn Sawyer, and he's basically sacrificing points by doing so.
    Can you post links to some of these programs? I've been watching a few on youtube as well, and all I can think is "thank God for COP." Am I watching the wrong ones?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Come on, you don't think it was much easier to "cheat" under the old 6.0 system of scoring? It is still possible now, and I'm not denying it's existence, but it is much more difficult to pull off a LaGougne now.
    No I don't actually because I see the skaters especially in ice dance getting marked pretty fairly. It'll never be perfect but it's much better than it was.

    I also think that the previous type of skating was boring .. skater would jump, spin, jump .. this choreography I find much more interesting.

  16. #56
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    Simple fire the president and every old corrupt judge , which is most of them lol.
    Get some new judges, who have no bias because their country has no skaters
    And stop killing the skaters with these rediculous elements. and let it be ART again!!!
    And get rid of the whole ISU Comettee , They are all old tired hags!!! Lol

  17. #57

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    To a large degree it's a matter of taste. E.g., some fans preferred Boitano and some preferred Orser. Baiul or Kerrigan. Browning or Stojko. Kwan or Lipinski or Cohen.

    In the recent era, Lysacek or Weir. Czisny or Wagner. Nagasu or Flatt. Oda or Kozuka. Joubert or Amodio.

    Not because of nationality or off-ice personality, although obviously those influence preferences as well, but because of skating style. There are different kinds of difficulty, different kinds of excellence, that different skaters can excel at. Sometimes the judging system seems to favor some types over others, but within the rules and their training history, skaters can only work with what their body types allow.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Can you post links to some of these programs? I've been watching a few on youtube as well, and all I can think is "thank God for COP." Am I watching the wrong ones?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8oj8...eature=related So many interesting moves that would not even count as elements in CoP

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQXBXmjumU Huge, clean jumps on all correct edges with complete rotation, speed and total freedom. She definitely wasn't thinking about "rules."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGsMDXLyXxs Elegant, classic positions in spins and MITF that we never see today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-oqwopZta8 choreography from start to finish. Spirals and MITF that last as long as the music requires them to, not the rulebook.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbshs...eature=related Unique style and movement, steps that actually MOVE across the ice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=polwvMNVgFU Beautiful program, and that second 3axel represents everything that is great about sports and the Olympic spirit. I can't imagine the games without that second 3A, and under CoP it would not have happened.

  19. #59
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    Thank you for the list, triple butz. Looks like I have a seminar at Youtube University to attend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WayCon View Post
    One common complaint I hear from the average viewer is that all the routines look alike. I think the ISU should be assigning points to a much larger number of jumps and spins and moves, and then say, "Choose 3 from column A and 2 from column B and 3 from column C." If the skaters and choreographers had a much larger number of maneuvers to select from, the programs would become more varied and expressive and interesting. Then the skaters could be more themselves, and people would naturally want to watch.

    Another problem is the visual appearance of skating on the TV screen or monitor. The viewer sees a flat expanse of white and a little skater puttering in the middle somewhere. I think the ISU should work with video people and computer programmers to enhance the skating images in a way to make them more 3 dimensional, so the viewer will get more of a sense of the speed. I'm sure we have all gone to an event with non-skater friend--they were amazed to see someone hurtling and rotating through space. Wow! Let's get that wow onto the TV screen.
    Good ideas.

    Skaters also all look the same size on TV. I remember seeing a young Nicole Bobek and Michelle Kwan in exhibition. What a difference it made. Nicole was comparable to the men in the speed and height of her jumps (unfortunately she landed every other one on her butt). Michelle was technically perfect but at 13 she looked 8 and was practically invisible in a medium sized arena. At Nationals with camera close-ups you couldn't see a big difference between them.

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