View Poll Results: Who has been the best since Katarina Witt retired

Voters
407. You may not vote on this poll
  • Mao Asada

    28 6.88%
  • Oksana Baiul

    1 0.25%
  • Midori Ito

    18 4.42%
  • Michelle Kwan

    176 43.24%
  • Tara Lipinski

    2 0.49%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    17 4.18%
  • Kristi Yamaguchi

    11 2.70%
  • Kim Yu Na

    143 35.14%
  • Sasha Cohen

    2 0.49%
  • Shizuka Arakawa

    7 1.72%
  • Sarah Hughes

    1 0.25%
  • Other

    1 0.25%
Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 173
  1. #121

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,863
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    40900
    @ the direction this thread turned. Not surprising of course or unfamiliar (I vaguely remember the Kwaniacs on Figure Skate World, hell, I was one.)
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  2. #122
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,173
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    LOL, and now, I wonder who has voted for Baiul !
    Hey, there's no need to be cynical about Oksana. She didn't have the jump difficulty/combos, but she had great technique. And to many, she is the skater who put the art in artistry.

  3. #123
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Tonya Harding, Josee Chouinard. I'm sure I've seen a well-known male skater performed it also.
    Tonya Harding was accredited with popularizing the layover camel position, but never achieved inverse position that Yuna does. Josee Chouinard's layover position was pretty, and deeper than Harding's, but not as deep as Yuna's nor capable of keeping the position long as Yuna.

    Her inverse camel position requires incredible amount of strength and sense of balance. Doing it is a one thing, but making it pretty and meeting the strict level requirements of CoP is another.

  4. #124
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,333
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    Hey, there's no need to be cynical about Oksana. She didn't have the jump difficulty/combos, but she had great technique. And to many, she is the skater who put the art in artistry.
    I'm sorry, I didn't want to be cynical.
    The fact is that Oksana was really talented, but IMO, she came too early. She was absolutely unable to do a turn much more difficult than a 3-turn. Her skating was beautiful, but very simple. I would have loved to see her on the scene later, with much more difficult steps, jumps entrances, spins entrances...

  5. #125
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Brussels
    Age
    28
    Posts
    682
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    For me, the most complete skater I've ever seen is Yu Na Kim. I was a baby when Witt was skating, and only really started watching in around 1996. I saw Kwan, I remember Lu Chen, and did watch some vids of the older skaters online, but Yu Na just has it all: the jumps, the flexibility, the musicality, the style, she's pretty...I just can't find any mistake apart from her low leg in her spiral.

  6. #126
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    124
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Glad to see the two of my all-time favorites are leading the poll. And it’s wonderful that Michelle has been such a good influence on Yu-Na over the years. In her autobiographical essays published two years ago, Yu-Na recalls her first encounter with the (televised) performance of Michelle at Nagano Olympics: “It was the moment the dream of being a figure skater, which was a vague notion for me at the time, took a tangible, concrete form. For the first time, I had a role model, somebody I wanted to resemble.”
    love yuna's this words

  7. #127

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at FSU
    Posts
    3,926
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4144
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Tonya Harding was accredited with popularizing the layover camel position, but never achieved inverse position that Yuna does. Josee Chouinard's layover position was pretty, and deeper than Harding's, but not as deep as Yuna's nor capable of keeping the position long as Yuna.

    Her inverse camel position requires incredible amount of strength and sense of balance. Doing it is a one thing, but making it pretty and meeting the strict level requirements of CoP is another.
    The Inverted camel has been done for decades on roller, to the point know where they do a catch foot position first, then invert while holding the foot. Yuna's is the best I've seen on ice, but it still doesn't get right over.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  8. #128
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    The Inverted camel has been done for decades on roller, to the point know where they do a catch foot position first, then invert while holding the foot. Yuna's is the best I've seen on ice, but it still doesn't get right over.
    I've seen videos of roller skaters doing inverse camel spins, but they don't have to do it on edges like figure skaters nor do they change directly into sit positions to get a level 4. I could be wrong on the latter point, but c'mon, would it be fair to compare figure skater's elements to those of other sports? If this was the case, I could criticize the shit out of Sasha Cohen's spiral positions comparing it to those of gymnasts and prima ballerinas.

  9. #129

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,196
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    33486
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I've seen videos of roller skaters doing inverse camel spins, but they don't have to do it on edges like figure skaters nor do they change directly into sit positions to get a level 4.
    Transitioning from an inverted camel into a sit position does not give you any bullets for a level 4 so i'm not sure why it's relevant

  10. #130
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Transitioning from an inverted camel into a sit position does not give you any bullets for a level 4 so i'm not sure why it's relevant
    And when did I say transitioning from inverted camel into a sit position alone gurantee a level 4?

  11. #131

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    in Yuna bubble everafter
    Posts
    4,891
    vCash
    465
    Rep Power
    42231
    Michelle surely owned the arena when she was on the ice, captivated everyone watching her and led fs to another level. And there's Yuna. They are the godesses of fs in my heart, and I don't think there will be anyone like them in the long future.

  12. #132
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,271
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    By 1986 / 87, stronger technical skaters like Liz Manley, Jill Trenary, and Debi Thomas were appearing on the scene.
    I never considered Trenary a stronger technical skater than Witt. Her jumps are smaller and weaker, and of course more inconsistent, and her spins are defnitely not better. Her only technical edge of any kind was a once in awhile triple flip which she usually missed, omitted, or executed poorly, and a jump Witt used to do anyway.

    Thomas was only really a potentially stronger technical skater than Witt in 1988. In 86 and 87 the two were on the same level technically, and were doing the exact same jumps. Thomas had just as hard a time with the triple loop then as Witt.

    Manley potentially always was but was a crash and burn skater mostly anyway.

  13. #133
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,271
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Kim hasn't dominated skating like Kwan did in her heydey or for nearly as long. Plus Kwan could be counted to skate clean in almost every event she was in. Kim has skated clean once i believe at the Olympics but otherwise she's not nearly as consistent as Michelle was.
    I prefer Kwan's skating to Kim's but I actually find Kim much more dominant. The only time I felt Kwan was really dominant was her first 15 months or so of dominance. Once early 97 came around she was regularly bested in major events by Lipinski for the next 2 seasons. Then she surprisingly lost Worlds to Maria after a mostly absent season, then she spent the next 3 seasons mostly losing to Slutskaya and even a couple times to Hughes. She then went into her twilight years, won 1 more Worlds, but also came 3rd and 4th at Worlds. Kwan was never really dominant when she had a prime Lipinski or prime Slutskaya as a main rival, whereas Kim has been dominant for periods even with Asada as a rival.

    Kim I believe lost only 3 times the last 3 seasons. She was virtually unbeatable most of the time, often winning by huge point margins. The only 3 season span Kwan lost only 3 times was 97-98 to 99-2000 but she didnt even compete regularly like Kim did, and had to come from behind to win Nationals and Worlds both in 2000.

  14. #134
    Vacant
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Here and there
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,769
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    9433
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I never considered Trenary a stronger technical skater than Witt. Her jumps are smaller and weaker, and of course more inconsistent, and her spins are defnitely not better. Her only technical edge of any kind was a once in awhile triple flip which she usually missed, omitted, or executed poorly, and a jump Witt used to do anyway.

    Thomas was only really a potentially stronger technical skater than Witt in 1988. In 86 and 87 the two were on the same level technically, and were doing the exact same jumps. Thomas had just as hard a time with the triple loop then as Witt.

    Manley potentially always was but was a crash and burn skater mostly anyway.
    On what basis would you say Trenary's spins were weaker than Witt's? Also Witt stopped trying triple flip in the fall of 1983 so it's safe to assume that by Worlds in 1987 when Trenary made her major international debut, Witt's flip was never going to make a comeback. Also Witt's loop was only ever landed once in a major competition, at the same worlds. Trenary had much more success over a longer period with the flip and the fact that she was also putting it in her SP at the time does IMO give her a hypothetical technical edge. I would agree that Witt's toe and sal, when working were of a higher quality to Jill's but it's not as if Jill's were teeny tiny compared to someone like Kadavy when looking at the same jumps. (Kadavy's loop was infinitely superior to her toe and sal). I do pretty much agree with your take on Thomas and Manley however.

  15. #135
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,271
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The only time I remember Jill ever landing a good triple flip was the 87 Nationals and Worlds and the 1990 Worlds (well sort of, she was pitched forward a bit landing it). Her triple flip in the short programs of both the 87 Worlds and 88 Olympics were landed but not well done and affected her placing. Her triple flip in the long program of the 89 Nationals was also not well done. I guess I never credited her as really having that mastered the triple flip when you could count on one hand the number of times she landed it and it actually helped her rather than being a hinderance.

    I dont know if Jill's spins were worse than Witt's but I dont think they were any better. Her layback was ugly, and no better than Witt's which was also wasnt very good. Her camel spins were probably weaker than Witt's, her sit spins and the scratch spin were probably about the same. Witt found it very easy to beat Trenary on technical scores when they competed head to head though, regardless how Trenary skated. Of course alot of that was probably reputation but I dont remember anyone arguing Trenary deserved higher technical marks or had outskated Witt technically in any of the programs they went head to head either.

  16. #136
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Miami, FL, USA
    Posts
    6,940
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    ^Interesting conversation.

    Trenary had a splendid Axel - 3sal sequence too, along with that 3flip.

    Witt's 3toes and 3sals were probably noticeably better than Trenary's.

    I never thought Trenary was a fantastic spinner, but I didn't really think Witt was either.

    Perhaps if you were to go by talent and corresponding ambition in program layout, all of Thomas, Manley, Ito, Kadavy and even Trenary were better than Witt, but talent and ambition never win competitions

  17. #137
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I prefer Kwan's skating to Kim's but I actually find Kim much more dominant. The only time I felt Kwan was really dominant was her first 15 months or so of dominance. Once early 97 came around she was regularly bested in major events by Lipinski for the next 2 seasons. Then she surprisingly lost Worlds to Maria after a mostly absent season, then she spent the next 3 seasons mostly losing to Slutskaya and even a couple times to Hughes. She then went into her twilight years, won 1 more Worlds, but also came 3rd and 4th at Worlds. Kwan was never really dominant when she had a prime Lipinski or prime Slutskaya as a main rival, whereas Kim has been dominant for periods even with Asada as a rival.

    Kim I believe lost only 3 times the last 3 seasons. She was virtually unbeatable most of the time, often winning by huge point margins. The only 3 season span Kwan lost only 3 times was 97-98 to 99-2000 but she didnt even compete regularly like Kim did, and had to come from behind to win Nationals and Worlds both in 2000.
    It's hard to compare because they competed under different judging systems, so the scores become somewhat irrelevant. Under the CoP, Hughes and Tara would have been penalized for their flutzes and their 3/3's be more scrutinized, so Kwan's dominance may have been more prominent.
    In addition, I really question some of the scorings that happened when she competed against Irina in her prime. Kwan's superiority in the quality of her skating wasn't really awarded enough in my opinion.

  18. #138
    aka IceSkate98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the Twilight Zone
    Posts
    7,012
    vCash
    12630
    Rep Power
    92483
    I voted for Michelle. I wish there could have been more choices because I also like Kristi Yamaguchi and Caryn Kadavy. All three of them are talented, beautiful skaters.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  19. #139

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at FSU
    Posts
    3,926
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4144
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I've seen videos of roller skaters doing inverse camel spins, but they don't have to do it on edges like figure skaters nor do they change directly into sit positions to get a level 4. I could be wrong on the latter point, but c'mon, would it be fair to compare figure skater's elements to those of other sports? If this was the case, I could criticize the shit out of Sasha Cohen's spiral positions comparing it to those of gymnasts and prima ballerinas.
    Um, 100% wrong. Change edge spins have also been around for decades on roller so your point is moot. There are also roller skaters who have gone from a back sit and stood straight into the inverted camel position. Let's see Yuna do that. I'm not saying roller is better than ice at all so don't bag me for talking about roller. I'm also not bagging Yuna, she is absolutely amazing and I have the utmost respect for her. As far as comparing sports, Ice and Roller figure skating are almost identical compared to gymnastics and figure skating. One glides the other rolls.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  20. #140
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    390
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Um, 100% wrong. Change edge spins have also been around for decades on roller so your point is moot. There are also roller skaters who have gone from a back sit and stood straight into the inverted camel position. Let's see Yuna do that. I'm not saying roller is better than ice at all so don't bag me for talking about roller. I'm also not bagging Yuna, she is absolutely amazing and I have the utmost respect for her. As far as comparing sports, Ice and Roller figure skating are almost identical compared to gymnastics and figure skating. One glides the other rolls.
    Um.. I wouldn’t say you’re 100% wrong, but I don’t agree here. Ice and roller skating are almost identical? First of all, friction is different, especially when one’s spinning, affording the roller skaters far greater command of certain positions. And you cannot compare roller skating edges to ice skating edges. I wouldn’t put Jordan up against Bolt as to who could run faster down the lane. It would be fairer to compare Yu-Na’s crafts with those of other (figure) skaters.

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •