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  1. #41

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    The BBC has an explanation page re: radiation dosages, health effects, and Fukushima, here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12722435

    Others more in the know can comment on how accurate their info is.
    Use Yah Blinkah!

  2. #42

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    Thank you for all the educated, caring members who are willing to share their expertise with us on this issue.
    I'm learning so much.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    The BBC has an explanation page re: radiation dosages, health effects, and Fukushima, here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12722435

    Others more in the know can comment on how accurate their info is.
    It's brief but accurate. The only thing I'd comment on is that the levels of leukemia were actually greater % wise than thyroid ca at Chernobyl. Not that that is good news since thyroid ca is quite treatable. Leukemia requires bone marrow transplants which are iffy. But, otherwise it is correct. One caveat about the potential genetic effects, to date, there is no documented evidence of radiation induced genetic effects in humans. This includes both the Japanese and Chernobyl data, particularly the Japanese. This may be the consequence that a germ cell (egg or sperm) that was sufficiently damaged by radiation is not likely to either survive or divide correctly.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    It would seem so. They will have a significant issue with clean up. It won't pose a health issue to the general population, but it's going to be extremely expensive and they will have a problem disposing of the material. The cost is going to be in the billions both in loss of generating capacity and in clean up. I have to assume the Japanese environmental protection people will do whatever it takes to minimize the environmental impact. I just hope they don't opt for the dump it at sea option.

    Disposal of radioactive waste is my biggest issue with nuclear power. The US has had an ongoing battle with disposing of tons of material at the Yucca Mountain facility for years. It's been blocked in the courts several times but is up for discussion again.
    That's my biggest issue too.

    Last year I visited the Death Valley National Park from Las Vegas, and was surprised to hear that the local people want that dump site (Yucca Mountain) because it will bring money to their state.

    I wish there was an economical way to process the radioactive waste. At the local (Arizona) nuclear power plant I was told they just store it on site, surrounded by heavy concrete walls. How long can they keep doing that? At some point something will need to be done about all the radioactive waste.

    I remember reading sometime back that the option to shoot it out into space was being considered. Do you know anything about that?

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Thank you for all the educated, caring members who are willing to share their expertise with us on this issue.
    I'm learning so much.
    I second that.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I remember reading sometime back that the option to shoot it out into space was being considered. Do you know anything about that?
    No, but given what's happened in Japan with things no one anticipated, I can just envision a saturn rocket loaded with radioactive waste exploding on launch.

    Power generation is a real conundrum. Coal powered plants are bad because of emissions, oil is limited, water requires damning major rivers, wind has it's own issues. There's no really good solution.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    No, but given what's happened in Japan with things no one anticipated, I can just envision a saturn rocket loaded with radioactive waste exploding on launch.

    Power generation is a real conundrum. Coal powered plants are bad because of emissions, oil is limited, water requires damning major rivers, wind has it's own issues. There's no really good solution.
    Yes. I work on air quality, and get to read about everything that's related to it, including energy/power generation. I have resisted nuclear power for a long time because of the radioactive waste problem. We as the human race (at least part of it) have abused our resources for generations and now the time is ripe to pay for it.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    Power generation is a real conundrum. Coal powered plants are bad because of emissions, oil is limited, water requires damning major rivers, wind has it's own issues. There's no really good solution.
    Thank you for saying that wind has it's own issues. My brother and his friends are spouting that (we) deserve what (we) got and that the only way to go is green, i.e. solar and wind.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    Oh, I see you meant that some of it had to be designed. I'm actually of the opposite view, but it's not "chance," really. Just "this thing worked and so we're gonna go with it!"
    I also think that what the tornado created is more in line with the TARDIS than a shiny jet. It's a jumble of stuff that does much more than you'd expect from the creaking and whining but, if you were to actually design it from scratch, you'd make the system much less complex and less jury-rigged.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    It's brief but accurate. The only thing I'd comment on is that the levels of leukemia were actually greater % wise than thyroid ca at Chernobyl. Not that that is good news since thyroid ca is quite treatable. Leukemia requires bone marrow transplants which are iffy. But, otherwise it is correct. One caveat about the potential genetic effects, to date, there is no documented evidence of radiation induced genetic effects in humans. This includes both the Japanese and Chernobyl data, particularly the Japanese. This may be the consequence that a germ cell (egg or sperm) that was sufficiently damaged by radiation is not likely to either survive or divide correctly.
    I have a questions about genetic effects from radiation... many decades ago my Father commissioned a study because of abnormal amount of births with deformities - we lived beside a nuclear power plant and there was a leak.. the whole thing was hushed up and the place even changed its name.. and my dad's study - the funding was stopped.. but what started this was the number of live births with deformities and the peak in the number of miscarriages during the first year after the 'leak'.. the place was called 'windscale' - but after the final leak changed its name... I know years later there were further studies but they focused on cancer.. are you aware of any studies on genetic effects - not necessarily on the sperm but the woman in the first trimester?
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbers123 View Post
    Thank you for saying that wind has it's own issues. My brother and his friends are spouting that (we) deserve what (we) got and that the only way to go is green, i.e. solar and wind.
    my family members live right beside tons of wind farms.. my brother doesn't even notice the noise anymore.. they are beside him.. ditto for rest of family.. for me - at first found them unsettling like a Dr. Who episode But now am so used to them doesn't bother me anymore.. what about natural gas?? or do those clean burning fossil places actually work?? Quite confusing these days..
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

    "Love is better than Anger, Hope is better than fear" Jack Layton 1950-2011

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    I have a questions about genetic effects from radiation... many decades ago my Father commissioned a study because of abnormal amount of births with deformities - we lived beside a nuclear power plant and there was a leak.. the whole thing was hushed up and the place even changed its name.. and my dad's study - the funding was stopped.. but what started this was the number of live births with deformities and the peak in the number of miscarriages during the first year after the 'leak'.. the place was called 'windscale' - but after the final leak changed its name... I know years later there were further studies but they focused on cancer.. are you aware of any studies on genetic effects - not necessarily on the sperm but the woman in the first trimester?
    The types of things you're describing sound like congenital defects that occurred during fetal development, not genetic as in a mutation in an egg or sperm cell that is carried into the next generation. The data from Japan clearly demonstrated congenital defects and spontaneous abortions. Based on that data and animal studies, researchers know there are critical points in fetal development that high doses of radiation can cause specific types of deformities. While nobody says there are no genetic effects in humans because they are theoretically possible and can be demonstrated in animals. However, none were documented in the Japanese population after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If they were a significant consequence of radiation exposure, they should have been present in that population source.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    The types of things you're describing sound like congenital defects that occurred during fetal development, not genetic as in a mutation in an egg or sperm cell that is carried into the next generation. The data from Japan clearly demonstrated congenital defects and spontaneous abortions. Based on that data and animal studies, researchers know there are critical points in fetal development that high doses of radiation can cause specific types of deformities. While nobody says there are no genetic effects in humans because they are theoretically possible and can be demonstrated in animals. However, none were documented in the Japanese population after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If they were a significant consequence of radiation exposure, they should have been present in that population source.
    oh thanks.. I was an arts major at grad school that makes sense.. thank you so much for taking the time to do this
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

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  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    my family members live right beside tons of wind farms.. my brother doesn't even notice the noise anymore.. they are beside him.. ditto for rest of family.. for me - at first found them unsettling like a Dr. Who episode But now am so used to them doesn't bother me anymore.. what about natural gas?? or do those clean burning fossil places actually work?? Quite confusing these days..
    CNG or natural gas (and other renewable energies) is definitely one of the alt fuels being used more. Here is a helpful link about different types of energies. Near the bottom of the page there is a link to natural gas basics. That should answer some of your questions.

    http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas.html

    Another one:

    (Look under renewable energy)

    http://www.eere.energy.gov/

    There are many clean energy alternatives that need to be developed further. When used in combination, they could help our planet. That's why I am not high on nuclear energy, although long ago (before these energies came up) I would have supported nuclear.
    Last edited by Vash01; 03-16-2011 at 04:43 PM.

  15. #55

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    Here in Arizona, at work, we were sent an email to answer any questions about radiation. I am surprised that people are even concerned here, considering how far we are from Fukushima, but this must be SOP (to inform employees).

    www.azein.gov

    I found the FAQ thread quite useful. Those are simple questions (many were already answered by RFisher), and the links they have provided are very good. It will take me a while to get through those. The only link I regularly access is the EPA one, since I work in that field.

    What really surprised me- about radiation treatment -was that they use Prussian Blue to treat some of the radiation damages to the body. May be RFisher mentioned it, but I somehow missed that. I have used that color in my paintings, and I was shocked to read that it is used in treating radiation (under medical supervision, of course).

  16. #56
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    Possibly to treat skin burns? I don't know. It would only be useful to treat acute radiation syndrome which occurs from a whole body exposure. It would have no effect on long term consequences (cancer and cataractogenesis). ARS is divided into 3 syndromes which are dependent on dose. The first is hematologic and is totally dose dependent. The second is GI and is fatal. However, this is related to extremely high dose. The third is neurologic and is also fatal, but is also extremely high dose.

    If there are *high* levels of exposure, they would not be high enough to cause any but the hematologic syndrome which is treatable with medical intervention. The dose that would even theoretically impact the US wouldn't reach the level of any of these. The others pretty much require that the individual is at ground zero.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  17. #57

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    Here is the info on Prussian Blue. It says it is used to treat internal contamination.

    http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/prussianblue.asp

  18. #58

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    Here's a site which has updates on the situation plus general information about the reactors, radiation and the effects thereof.

    http://mitnse.com/

  19. #59

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    This site measures radiation levels in real time.

    http://www.bousai.ne.jp/eng/index.html

    And this is spreadsheet keeps the tracked data. Quite an interesting read. You can see the spikes during the two fires but the radiation levels haven't changed much (if any) since the fires were put out.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?k...lZieUNvb0hfQnc

    ETA: He doesn't have the 3/15 data on the google docs sheet anymore but I believe he keeps it in CSV format (which can be opened in Excel) on his site

    http://www.sendung.de/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Here is the info on Prussian Blue. It says it is used to treat internal contamination.

    http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/prussianblue.asp
    That's amazing. The possible side effects: Blue tongue and mouth (if not swallowed whole), blue stool, constipation and stomach upset.

    After they get out of the hospital, the nuclear plant workers deserve a three-month detox stay in a fancy spa.

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