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  1. #21

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    Wondering what Paul & Islam were thinking watching this competition and seeing where the Shibs and I&K placed. P&I beat the Shibs last year at Jr Worlds.

    W&P are now the clear #2 in ice dance for Canada after this result IMO. I wonder if P&I will have a shot at overtaking C&P next year at Canadians so that they could go to worlds.

    I really hope P&I will be assigned to Nebelhorn or some other senior B competition to allow them to get some ISU points. Otherwise, they will not get invited to GP events (outside of Skate Canada) and they will have bad start orders because of a low ranking.

    I'm wondering what SC is thinking about C&P's result here. They were kind of dumped.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Wondering what Paul & Islam were thinking watching this competition and seeing where the Shibs and I&K placed. P&I beat the Shibs last year at Jr Worlds.

    W&P are now the clear #2 in ice dance for Canada after this result IMO. I wonder if P&I will have a shot at overtaking C&P next year at Canadians so that they could go to worlds.

    I really hope P&I will be assigned to Nebelhorn or some other senior B competition to allow them to get some ISU points. Otherwise, they will not get invited to GP events (outside of Skate Canada) and they will have bad start orders because of a low ranking.

    I'm wondering what SC is thinking about C&P's result here. They were kind of dumped.
    Imagine how I/K feel watching S/S take a world bronze. Really, junior level teams improve so much in such a short time that its hard to compare them in the first few years that they hit the senior level. I have no doubt that P/I would have fared well at worlds.

    As for W/P, I am so thrilled to see them getting the numbers and levels they deserve. I agree that C/P seem to have been left behind here, and I can't say I disagree with that. As good as C/P are technically, IMO they seem to skate stiffly, and they definately lack the connection and spark of the other top Canadinan teams. I figured that would catch up with them eventually.

    For those exact reasons, I think that P/I will have a shot at overtaking them. P/I have that spark, and their technical levels, which are already high and nearly comperable to those that C/P were getting this year, will probably be better next season as they continue to mesh as a team. They may end up being the ones who benefit from V/M and W/P's stunning performances at worlds this coming season.

    I do hope that P/I get some senio B events as well, especially because they really didn't get to compete much at all. I highly doubt that Skate Canada would want P/I to miss a shot at two GP events. I was wondering, though, how P/I amassed enough points to be assigned to two senior GP events this season? Was that on the strength of the results they got on the JGP circuit the year before?

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    I was wondering, though, how P/I amassed enough points to be assigned to two senior GP events this season? Was that on the strength of the results they got on the JGP circuit the year before?
    Medalists at Jr. Worlds are guaranteed at least one SGP assignment the following season if they want to move up.

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    I wouldn't say W/P are the clear number two yet although I wish they were. It could switch around in C/P's favour again easily as C/P have still beat W/P in most outings this season and last. Unfortunately for P/I, unless they have great improvement, they may not be able to compete at worlds until after 2014 unless V/M retires earlier, even though they could be in the top 10 at Worlds.

  5. #25

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    Canada, like Russia and the US, has an abundance of extremely talented young dance teams. It'll be most interesting to see how the competition plays out in the next 5 years.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I wouldn't say W/P are the clear number two yet although I wish they were. It could switch around in C/P's favour again easily as C/P have still beat W/P in most outings this season and last. Unfortunately for P/I, unless they have great improvement, they may not be able to compete at worlds until after 2014 unless V/M retires earlier, even though they could be in the top 10 at Worlds.

    I was thinking the same thing. If they can produce some unique programs and develop something of a signature "style" to break them through that crowd, the competition ought to be incredibly tight in Canadian Ice Dance. Especially if they gain more speed and power. I have a soft spot for this team. This sounds quite pedestrian...but they're just so likeable to me.

  7. #27
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    I personally find C/P boring, stagnant, and do agree P/I have a great shot to pass them as Canada's #3 team next season. IMO C/P should long treasure their GP final bronze, Skate Canada gold, and Canadian Gold from this season as this will be by far their career season forever, despite the dissapointing end.

  8. #28

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    P&I are a prettier team than C&P, but C&P are still more skilled, and faster than P&I. I don't think P&I will be passing them all that soon.

    I don't think that next year's SD theme does C&P any favors though. The Rumba is a relatively easy CD (and so their ability to handle difficulty is not as big an advantage as it might be), and the whole Latin dances thing really is better if the team is very good at simulating having a connection, not C&P's strongest suit.

    One thing that tends to get missed at the sudden rise of the Shibs, is that 2 years ago they were World Junior Silver medallists. Last year Alex grew & Maia didn't, and their look on the ice was all wrong. Additionally, they chose to do a tango FD, which was a bad choice for them. So really, if you described them as the two years ago silver medallists, that gives you a better idea of where they should have progressed to by this year.

    Even with that, winning bronze in their first senior Worlds is just amazing.

    However, it would be a shame if P&I were unable to get to Worlds. They may just have to wait till after Sochi. Or perhaps one of the 3 teams ahead of them will retire. Patience is a real virtue in that case.

    Samuelson and Bates' misfortunes were definitely the Shibs gains. US Nationals has at least 5 really worthy senior teams, and 2 of them are not going to be at Worlds next year. Canadians have 5 too (with Ralph and Hill) and two of them are not going to be at Worlds either.

    It's nice for the federations but hard on the kids.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    I was wondering, though, how P/I amassed enough points to be assigned to two senior GP events this season? Was that on the strength of the results they got on the JGP circuit the year before?
    They got 2 GP events last year because they were the subs for virtue/moir.

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    Here's hoping they get some exposure this coming season. Will they get 2 GP events or just 1? I'm not sure how this works.....silly question? I sure would like to see more of this team. I think they are hot with a nice connection to each other. She's very pretty and he's a cutie ( I know that's shallow) I remember some very nice moves and it looked as though they had been together for a longer time.......very nice skating. I really enjoyed them at Skate Canada. It was quite a surprise to see ANOTHER team which I liked. We do have some depth here as well in Canada.
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  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post

    US Nationals has at least 5 really worthy senior teams, and 2 of them are not going to be at Worlds next year. Canadians have 5 too (with Ralph and Hill) and two of them are not going to be at Worlds either.

    It's nice for the federations but hard on the kids.
    Ralph/Hill and Orford/Williams' SB scores are below the criteria for the GP.

  12. #32
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    Can they be asked for host picks still?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ergurl View Post
    They got 2 GP events last year because they were the subs for virtue/moir.

    Not quite. Their names were listed at both Skate Canada and CoR long before Virtue and Moir indicated that they intended to withdraw. Sarah Arnold and Justin Trojek were V/M's replacements and Skate Canada. They were never replaced at their other event (I can't recall if it was TEB or NHK, but it definately was not CoR)

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarie View Post
    Here's hoping they get some exposure this coming season. Will they get 2 GP events or just 1? I'm not sure how this works.....silly question? I sure would like to see more of this team. I think they are hot with a nice connection to each other. She's very pretty and he's a cutie ( I know that's shallow) I remember some very nice moves and it looked as though they had been together for a longer time.......very nice skating. I really enjoyed them at Skate Canada. It was quite a surprise to see ANOTHER team which I liked. We do have some depth here as well in Canada.
    I couldn't agree more. I really hope that they get two assignments again. I would assume as much, since they are now Canadian national team members. The depth in Canadian dance is quite astounding, isn't it?

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I really hope that they get two assignments again. I would assume as much, since they are now Canadian national team members. The depth in Canadian dance is quite astounding, isn't it?
    For a country with 1/10th population as U.S.........we sure do.
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  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Ralph/Hill and Orford/Williams' SB scores are below the criteria for the GP.
    The 4th couple is of course, Paul & Islam, the subjects of this thread. Not Orford/Williams.

    Clearly R&H will have to do Nebelhorn or other Senior B this year.

  17. #37
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    I feel sorry for Ralph and Hill. They obviously want to get better, but being barred from the GP is a step down for them. I don't like this minimum scores for the GP thing.

    If you're not on the world/4CC/euros team for your country, it seems you will get barely any international exposure now. Competing at senior bs isn't quite the same as competing in the grand prix. If you're borderline on the minimum scores for the GP, but you don't have them yet, the senior bs won't offer much intense competition for you.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I feel sorry for Ralph and Hill. They obviously want to get better, but being barred from the GP is a step down for them. I don't like this minimum scores for the GP thing.

    If you're not on the world/4CC/euros team for your country, it seems you will get barely any international exposure now. Competing at senior bs isn't quite the same as competing in the grand prix. If you're borderline on the minimum scores for the GP, but you don't have them yet, the senior bs won't offer much intense competition for you.
    I know, it's a shame I really do like Ralph & Hill, but I'll admit that as soon as I saw Paul & Islam's programs from junior worlds in 2010, I began to fear for Ralph & Hill's placement in Canada. They're already struggling, and taking them off of the GP circuit certainly won't do them any favours. I hope that they can achieve those minimums, becaue international events might help to push their progress along. I don't know what it is, but it seems to me that Ralph & Hill have hit a wall the last couple of years. They seem to have stopped improving and bringing new elemnts to the table. I really hope that they haven't reached their peak.

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    Ralph & Hill are definitely in a tough spot. The teams ahead of them all are young so arent going to move out of the way anytime soon. They are going to have to work hard to make any move.

  20. #40
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    Yikes...I'm going to stick my neck out, here... conditionally, that is. Much depends on what the five teams below V/M work on over the off-season .

    I'm assuming V/M will stay in , and regain their national championship. So...

    First, I think it's do or die time next year for C/P. With five placements between them and W/P , I really think they're in a catch up position , now, Canadian Championship notwithstanding. They must address their weaknesses , because W/P have really worked on theirs , and I don't think they'll let up now. I think they'll be inspired to work really hard to try to at least maintain their World placement. All these teams ( and Skate Canada ) must be painfully aware of the competitiveness of the international scene.

    Alexandra and Mitch must know that that 3rd place Canadian spot is within the realm of possibility for them next year ( especially if they're continuing to progress at their former rapid pace ). Their technical scores were pretty competitive at Canadians .. and David Islam's report on how much speed they'd gained in the month following nationals sounded pretty positive. Sure, there could be a certain amount of PR there, but we've seen how fast they've progressed in the past , so maybe it's entirely accurate. We'll know in about 4 months. P/I have an advantage in danceability and interconnection . Another plus for them is that even at the Jr. level, their coach /school believes in the benefits of seeking outside help and experience for their pupils. I don't say they'll breeze by C/P, but I think it's within the realm of possibility for P/I to pass them.

    It's really the L/R school that has to step up here..for C/P and also for R/H , because here, again, not only are R/H now decidedly trailing P/I , but H/G are not that far behind , if R/H's problem areas remain unaddressed.
    Last edited by Pratfall; 05-07-2011 at 06:20 AM.

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