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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    I think her point was that the person who wrote that cannot be the completely self involved, bedside table criminal who has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was little more than a teenager.
    One thing I've seen on this board and all these discussions is that everyone who has actually met and spent time with Johnny sees him as a nice, normal person who is gracious to fans and good to his friends and family - I don't think anyone has ever disputed that.

    What comes into question most is some of his behaviour in the rink and out - much of it from his own stories and quotes - and his career choices.

    Of course Johnny is self-involved - most elite skaters are, and many of us are too. Yes he's a bedside table thief by his own admission, but where did anyone say he has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was a teen?

    Good people do bad things, smart people make stupid choices. Everything is not black and white/love Johnny or hate him.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Of course Johnny is self-involved - most elite skaters are, and many of us are too. Yes he's a bedside table thief by his own admission, but where did anyone say he has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was a teen.
    There is no direct quote. It's an attitude that some posters have. They seem to take any opportunity to point out that he's less than he should be. That's what makes his defenders crazy. For every realistic person like antmanb or yourself there are several people who seem to take it personally that Johnny is not your average bear and he won't do and say what they think every young man should.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    For every realistic person like antmanb or yourself there are several people who seem to take it personally that Johnny is not your average bear and he won't do and say what they think every young man should.
    How do you know what other posters think? I don't see a lot of criticism of Johnny here for not being like "every young man".

    From Jenny:

    What comes into question most is some of his behaviour in the rink and out - much of it from his own stories and quotes - and his career choices.
    ^^this.
    Last edited by overedge; 03-20-2011 at 01:18 AM.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    How do you know what other posters think? I don't see a lot of criticism of Johnny here for not being like "every young man".
    I know what other posters think because they post their feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle not just in skating but also off ice. That's why we come here! You're a serial offender. This is a perfect example. Thanks!

  5. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    I know what other posters think because they post their feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle not just in skating but also off ice.
    "Feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle" are not the same as criticizing someone because they don't act like "every young man".

    Just to pick one example, I think a lot of Johnny's fashion choices would be horrendous on anyone of any age or gender.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    "Feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle" are not the same as criticizing someone because they don't act like "every young man".

    Just to pick one example, I think a lot of Johnny's fashion choices would be horrendous on anyone of any age or gender.
    Maybe I'm dense but I don't see how they're so very different.

    As for the fashion I must admit I tend toward more conventional togs myself. That's just a matter of taste. But admit that his clothes are not what the AVERAGE young man would wear. He's not just another sheep following the herd and that's why his fans love him.

  7. #147
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    A lovely, heartfelt message from Johnny to the Japanese people. Thanks for posting, Justathoughtabl.

    Johnny’s thoughtful words are obviously not unique under the present circumstances of what has happened in Japan, but they are uniquely his words. The only incongruity is the contrast of those sincere words within the context of this thread. “Insanity” is a good characterization for this thread, or maybe inanity, which also describes my giving in to the temptation of re-joining the fray.

    at the back-and-forth re kleptomaniac interior decorator Johnny bustling/ hustling through the Olympic village. WTF! I guess Johnny’s book has provided more than enough fuel to continue feeding some people’s ire.

    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    Well I certainly agree that this poor old horse has been beaten to death. AND I agree that Johnny and SOI are a bad match. Certainly at this late date anyway. My problem is just with those who keep saying he would not be cooperative and would try to make the show all about him. Where do they get this stuff? Johnny's "diva-ness" is all about being campy and funny ... It's only a cadre American males who have a wild hair somewhere about him.
    Thanks for offering some sanity here REO.

    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    Absolutely. He milks it for all it's worth. It's mostly a facade though. He's very down to earth in reality - love of luxury items notwithstanding. (Real reality not the tv show. lol)
    Yep, you nailed that conundrum.


    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    ... According to Priscilla her life was hell in Torino because they were constantly on HER back to make him give up his jacket that Totmianina had given him ...
    Sorry REO, your phrasing re the good old/ bad old jacket affair -- the nonsense of it all (in addition to the over-the-top nitpicking nonsense in this thread) has me imagining how the jacket hell might have gone down in Torino. My sympathies to Priscilla, as she didn’t deserve all the stress, but I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when she and USFS reps were possibly (at least in my imagined scenario) screaming and tearing their hair out demanding that Johnny strip off that odious jacket. “JWe, take off that jacket right now, or else! This is the Olympics, you nuthead! Okay, JWe, look, you’ll get to go on a shopping spree right here in Torino, and we’ll buy you some new furs, some Christian Dior, some Louboutins and some Jimmy Choos, just puhleeze take off that jacket before you go out to the practice rink!” Silence. ”Please … pretty please.” Johnny petulantly shakes his head. He really loves that jacket. Johnny determinedly grabs hold of his beloved jacket even tighter, in full rebellion mode. And let’s not forget the bus affair – a last minute time change, with Johnny conveniently failing to be made aware of the change, or maybe he was made aware, but he was too busy trying to locate his aura. Divas must always bring their auras with them, or suffer the consequences.

    Of course this jacket territory has been tread and retread so many times, it’s becoming treadworn, or threadbare, or thready. How about treacly? Anways, it is historically or traditionally not unusual for skaters to exchange uniforms at the Olympics (as Toller Cranston thoughtfully or maybe bombastically— recalls in one of his books). Sure Johnny probably shouldn’t have worn the jacket at practices in full view of the intrusive television cameras. Everyone knows those media types dislike divas. Duh! But, why pray tell are people still so up-in-arms about the jacket?

    A preposterous devil’s advocate notion: Why didn’t USFS calm down, think outside the box and use Johnny’s wearing it as an opportunity for him to be interviewed about why he was wearing it [the why of it beats me – maybe he thought he looked fashionably hip, or he was in such a daze he forgot he wasn’t Russian, or he was rebelling and just being the Johnny we love to hate]. Perhaps there was an interesting non-diva-like reason involving his friend, Totmianina (oh let’s not blame her for his stupidity). Since it was the Olympics, why not use the incident to promote the sport as an inclusive family embracing all countries and cultures? The cold war is over, isn’t it? Oh wait, I can answer all my own silly questions for myself (since I’m probably just talking to myself anyway, not an outlandish feat in this thread): “Because it’s figure skating, you nuthead! It’s the most politically f***ed-up sport in the world.” Hmmm… another apt description for this thread.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    everyone who has actually met and spent time with Johnny sees him as a nice, normal person who is gracious to fans and good to his friends and family - I don't think anyone has ever disputed that.
    .
    I'll dispute that. "Normal" is a word that I've rarely heard ascribed to Johnny Weir and certainly not as an attribute he aims to achieve.

    He is good to his fans, I'll give you that.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  9. #149
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    "Be Unique!" (Or join the haters on FSU lol)

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    One thing I've seen on this board and all these discussions is that everyone who has actually met and spent time with Johnny sees him as a nice, normal person who is gracious to fans and good to his friends and family - I don't think anyone has ever disputed that. What comes into question most is some of his behaviour in the rink and out - much of it from his own stories and quotes - and his career choices.

    Of course Johnny is self-involved - most elite skaters are, and many of us are too. Yes he's a bedside table thief by his own admission, but where did anyone say he has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was a teen? Good people do bad things, smart people make stupid choices. Everything is not black and white/love Johnny or hate him.
    That's thoughtful and shows there can be some middle ground here. But as zaphyre's views below indicate, the middle ground is never fully reached when it comes to Johnny. As REO said, these Johnny threads become all tied up, blown up and predictable with comments from those who either love him or hate him (and others claiming to be neutral, and/or former fans who can't stop giving him the attention they feel he craves and actively seeks). I doubt Johnny is at all interested in the over-the-top attention found in FSU threads about him. Interestingly, there are posts in this thread that accurately point out how views about Johnny deteriorated on FSU and became more and more snarky over the past several years (and there were always some here who never liked him). Thoughtful middle ground and good-natured ribbing aside, Johnny threads seem to descend very quidkly into a swamp-like twilight zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    I'll dispute that. "Normal" is a word that I've rarely heard ascribed to Johnny Weir and certainly not as an attribute he aims to achieve. He is good to his fans, I'll give you that.
    RE your "dispute," you're surely not the only disputee. In fact, Johnny himself has said on a couple of occasions I can recall that he's glad his parents have one "normal" son in his younger brother. So, even Johnny doesn't see himself as especially "normal." Having grown up in Amish country Pennsylvania with a loving, normal upbringing, however, those who know him likely do realize that he is unpretentious, fairly grounded, down-to-earth, often sweet, funny, and very kind to everyone who sees beyond his playful, so-called diva-ish image.

    From what I've read, heard and witnessed, I agree with REO, that some of the way Johnny acts is a rebellious facade. As I previously mentioned, I feel Johnny is very attuned to people's emotions and he responds to people in the same way they respond to him. Some people respond to Johnny with acceptance, love, admiration and understanding, while others respond with umistakeable dislike, wary uncomfortableness, know-it-all snarkiness, outrage, and exaggerated perceptions. He is how everyone individually sees him based on the fact people perceive him according to who they are and how they view the world.

  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    He is how everyone individually sees him based on the fact people perceive him according to who they are and how they view the world.
    How is this different from how anyone else on Planet Earth is perceived?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  12. #152
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    It's not. It's just that some people harbor what others believe are misperceptions. Also Average Joe Blow does not have websites devoted to other people's perceptions regarding him, good or bad, most of which are pure conjecture. Ah the price of fame.

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    those who know him likely do realize that he is unpretentious, fairly grounded, down-to-earth, often sweet, funny, and very kind to everyone who sees beyond his playful, so-called diva-ish image..
    Again, I dispute this generalization. The people I know who do know Johnny (some quite intimately) don't call him unpretentious (quite the opposite!) or down-to-earth. Kind is also debatable. Funny, maybe. But definitely Diva with a capital D. And that's something several of them are not particularly happy about.

    On a personal basis, I have to say that my few, brief encounters with him have upheld the Diva stereotype entirely. And not a particularly original or unique version of it, either. But I can't see into the man's soul, as some posters apparently can so what do I know? *shrug*
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    Again, I dispute this generalization. The people I know who do know Johnny (some quite intimately) don't call him unpretentious (quite the opposite!) or down-to-earth. Kind is also debatable. Funny, maybe. But definitely Diva with a capital D. And that's something several of them are not particularly happy about.

    On a personal basis, I have to say that my few, brief encounters with him have upheld the Diva stereotype entirely. And not a particularly original or unique version of it, either. But I can't see into the man's soul, as some posters apparently can so what do I know? *shrug*
    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    I'll dispute that. "Normal" is a word that I've rarely heard ascribed to Johnny Weir and certainly not as an attribute he aims to achieve. ...
    Well, if you can't see into Johnny's soul, you apparently are able to see into some part of his brain if indeed you are so certain about the "attributes he aims to achieve."

    Funnily enough, I am also acquainted with a few people who happen to know Johnny and some of his family members fairly intimately. A bit removed, I know, and unlike you, I haven't had the pleasure of actually meeting Johnny in person for even a few, brief encounters. I have followed his career very closely over the years. Of course, none of this amounts to being able to "see into the man's soul." What I do interpret from my meager "Johnny knowledge" and based on what I've heard from acquaintances who know him, he's quite the complex individual, but also in many ways an open book. Not very different from most human beings, except for his unique gifts and for the resultant mini fame. Fame is fleeting, while true friends, family and the stuff of real life, we're kind of all stuck with until our last mortal breath. (Hey, maybe an idea for a poem)

    OKay, I'm not trying to compete with you or who you know who knows Johnny (are any of them USFS members perhaps? ). In any case, its obviously possible for different people to have different takes, especially on FSU. I also think Johnny, like most people, possibly has changed at least outwardly and in terms of how people view him, as he's grown over the years (again, as happens with most people, especially those in the public eye). I don't think Johnny's persona or who he is inside has changed overmuch. That doesn't mean I can see inside his soul -- I'm basing this view again on having followed Johnny's career quite closely and having read so much of what he's written, read and listened to interviews, and spoken to people who know him, etc. But truthfully, what do I really know about The Talented Mr. Weir. (c) 2011

    Any case, I repeat my conjecture: "Johnny responds to people in the same way they respond to him. He can be rebellious and challenging and diva-ish, and he can be quite funny and kind. Some people, perhaps, are able to see beyond his facade."


    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    "Be Unique!" (Or join the haters on FSU lol)
    Or become jaded on FSU!

    Actually, I don't think I could ever seriously hate Johnny or hate on him, not even on the occasions when I might be somewhat annoyed by something he said or by an opinion of his I disagree with, and not even if he ever "kicked my dog."

    Disclaimer: I don't have a dog.


    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    It's not. It's just that some people harbor what others believe are misperceptions. Also Average Joe Blow does not have websites devoted to other people's perceptions regarding him, good or bad, most of which are pure conjecture. Ah the price of fame.
    Ahhh, thanks REO. I don't always agree with your every point of view, but most of the time I think you nail it quite efficiently. Thanks for providing at least some balance or middle ground here.


    Conjecturally-speaking ... most of what is said here does not actually affect Johnny Weir, or reveal his motivations, his thoughts, or his inner soul. It's just us unfamous mortals flinging our perceptions around ... and around ... To little avail. On fan forums, a thread is a thread is a thread that threads its way meanderingly, excitedly, snarkily, laughingly, quietly ... into archive oblivion. In other words, threads can be nuts, or full of nuts (and pins and needles), and then like everything and everyone on the Planet, they die. LOL, I can hear someone complaining in this case, "Not soon enough!"

  15. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Well, if you can't see into Johnny's soul, you apparently are able to see into some part of his brain if indeed you are so certain about the "attributes he aims to achieve."

    Funnily enough, I am also acquainted with a few people who happen to know Johnny and some of his family members fairly intimately. A bit removed, I know, and unlike you, I haven't had the pleasure of actually meeting Johnny in person for even a few, brief encounters. I have followed his career very closely over the years. Of course, none of this amounts to being able to "see into the man's soul." What I do interpret from my meager "Johnny knowledge" and based on what I've heard from acquaintances who know him, he's quite the complex individual, but also in many ways an open book. Not very different from most human beings, except for his unique gifts and for the resultant mini fame. Fame is fleeting, while true friends, family and the stuff of real life, we're kind of all stuck with until our last mortal breath. (Hey, maybe an idea for a poem)

    OKay, I'm not trying to compete with you or who you know who knows Johnny (are any of them USFS members perhaps? ). In any case, its obviously possible for different people to have different takes, especially on FSU. I also think Johnny, like most people, possibly has changed at least outwardly and in terms of how people view him, as he's grown over the years (again, as happens with most people, especially those in the public eye). I don't think Johnny's persona or who he is inside has changed overmuch. That doesn't mean I can see inside his soul -- I'm basing this view again on having followed Johnny's career quite closely and having read so much of what he's written, read and listened to interviews, and spoken to people who know him, etc. But truthfully, what do I really know about The Talented Mr. Weir. (c) 2011

    Any case, I repeat my conjecture: "Johnny responds to people in the same way they respond to him. He can be rebellious and challenging and diva-ish, and he can be quite funny and kind. Some people, perhaps, are able to see beyond his facade."




    Or become jaded on FSU!

    Actually, I don't think I could ever seriously hate Johnny or hate on him, not even on the occasions when I might be somewhat annoyed by something he said or by an opinion of his I disagree with, and not even if he ever "kicked my dog."

    Disclaimer: I don't have a dog.




    Ahhh, thanks REO. I don't always agree with your every point of view, but most of the time I think you nail it quite efficiently. Thanks for providing at least some balance or middle ground here.


    Conjecturally-speaking ... most of what is said here does not actually affect Johnny Weir, or reveal his motivations, his thoughts, or his inner soul. It's just us unfamous mortals flinging our perceptions around ... and around ... To little avail. On fan forums, a thread is a thread is a thread that threads its way meanderingly, excitedly, snarkily, laughingly, quietly ... into archive oblivion. In other words, threads can be nuts, or full of nuts (and pins and needles), and then like everything and everyone on the Planet, they die. LOL, I can hear someone complaining in this case, "Not soon enough!"

    So by way of summary - you have never met Johnny, you can't see into his soul or mind. Everything you write is purely conjecture.

    Pretty much a level playing field in this thread and everyone is simply expressing their opinions on what is out there in the media/Johnny puts out there in his book etc.

  16. #156
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    ^ Ya, okay, but you left out the nuts and the flinging and the last breath (too morbid?) Oh well, there is a needle or two there I suppose, in your selective so-called "by way of summary." BTW, never did I write that “everything I write is purely conjecture” – that’s purely conjecture on your part.

    Die thread die. Sigh… Not soon enough!
    Last edited by aftershocks; 03-23-2011 at 11:27 AM.

  17. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^ Ya, okay, but you left out the nuts and the flinging and the last breath (too morbid?) Oh well, there is a needle or two there I suppose, in your selective so-called "by way of summary." BTW, never did I write that “everything I write is purely conjecture” – that’s purely conjecture on your part.

    Die thread die. Sigh… Not soon enough!
    Well several times in your post you make it clear it's just conjecture on your part.

    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    [snip]
    I also think Johnny, like most people, possibly has changed at least outwardly and in terms of how people view him, as he's grown over the years (again, as happens with most people, especially those in the public eye). I don't think Johnny's persona or who he is inside has changed overmuch. That doesn't mean I can see inside his soul -- I'm basing this view again on having followed Johnny's career quite closely and having read so much of what he's written, read and listened to interviews, and spoken to people who know him, etc. But truthfully, what do I really know about The Talented Mr. Weir. (c) 2011

    Any case, I repeat my conjecture: "Johnny responds to people in the same way they respond to him. He can be rebellious and challenging and diva-ish, and he can be quite funny and kind. Some people, perhaps, are able to see beyond his facade."

    [snip]
    Conjecturally-speaking ...
    You admit you don't know him, have no first hand experience of him, so anything you say about his state of mind, his personality type, who the "real " johnny weir is, is total conjecture.

    Like I said in my original post - all of us (witha few exceptions) are in the same boat, so all we're really doing is discussing differences of opinion. Either of us trying to pass off our conjecture as fact will always be wrong (but i quote you to substnatiate some of my conjecture)

  18. #158
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    Hey antmanb, dissect, interpret, misinterpret, and post your perceptions in whatever way makes you happy – “unfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii i iiiiiiiiir[ness], total conjecture, passing off conjecture as fact,” abject pablum, “same boat, level playing field,” scoring, boring

    Maybe there’s one thing we can agree on, I like Johnny, you apparently not as much. Not an earth-shattering matter. As usual with over-the-top Johnny threads, most of it hasn't really been about Johnny or figure skating.

    My apologies to Lexxandra, who was kind enough to start this thread on a positive note, with the video links to Johnny’s meeting with his Russian fans.

  19. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Hey antmanb, dissect, interpret, misinterpret, and post your perceptions in whatever way makes you happy – “unfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii i iiiiiiiiir[ness], total conjecture, passing off conjecture as fact,” abject pablum, “same boat, level playing field,” scoring, boring

    Maybe there’s one thing we can agree on, I like Johnny, you apparently not as much. Not an earth-shattering matter. As usual with over-the-top Johnny threads, most of it hasn't really been about Johnny or figure skating.

    My apologies to Lexxandra, who was kind enough to start this thread on a positive note, with the video links to Johnny’s meeting with his Russian fans.
    Thanks for your kind permission, I will continue since i have been granted your permission

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    Johnny tweeted about skating today:
    Skated great today! First day trying quads again. #Terrifying
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-10-2011 at 09:00 PM.

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