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  1. #61
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    I agree with bandit. Nobody got more press and attention in Torino than Johnny. He was 3 time champion besides. I think he annoyed the heck out of the Federation with his Russophilia. According to Priscilla her life was hell in Torino because they were constantly on HER back to make him give up his jacket that Totmianina had given him. If he had stood up and won a medal after his great start it would have been Evan who? But the jacket deal along with Evan bombing the short and then coming back to 4th was the antithesis of Johnny in place for a silver and losing ground that tipped them over into Evan's camp. He was a biddable, flag waving "straight" boy who said what they told him to in interviews. As opposed to a rebellious Russophilaic who was "flamboyant" and is a very colorful interviewee. I prefer an interesting person but there's no denying he's a rogue. He's has flat out said he's not a team player more than once. I think even in his book.

  2. #62
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    I just wish they wouldn't try to get their athletes to fit a certain mold. Evan is fine (though he can be a passive aggressive jerk at times), but there's a reason why a lot of people think athletes (particularly amateur athletes) are so ho-hum and boring. Many of the most memorable athletes had a personality that was just out there for all to see...Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson, Babe Ruth, etc. Figure skating would be more fun if they promoted the personalities of their skaters.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    He's has flat out said he's not a team player more than once. I think even in his book.

    True, Johnny said several times in his book that he was not a team player, that's why he hated being forced by his dad to play softball and soccer when he was younger.

  4. #64
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    @REO, thanks for your input. Fair enough. I was not speaking of Torino in my most recent comments. If you are referencing the discussion about whether Johnny was promoted more than Evan around 2005-2006, I agree that USFS was biding their time with Johnny and seeing how he’d fare. They were also viewing Evan as the next up-and-comer. Still, USFS had issues with Johnny going back to 2002-2003, as he describes in his book. They had effectively given up on him after 2003, and it was Johnny’s own hard work, talent and resilience that got him back into the picture. In 2005 and 2006, Johnny was of course being promoted, but USFS was also wary of his outspoken personality, and were eager to push Evan as the alternative. Johnny may have had a slight edge as U.S. National champion, but Evan had the 2005 World bronze, and I think more support privately.

    As has been repeatedly noted, many people were pissed with Johnny's "coke" comment about his costume after Nationals 2006. It was innocent enough actually, and if you view the context, quite harmless and funny. I understand the dangers of drugs and that people who have experienced this personally or with a loved one don’t find such references funny, but context is everything. Look at his Dr. Zhivago costume! Sure his comments were immature and politically incorrect – but he did learn from the situation. In any case, as Johnny describes in his book, USFS was not going to “give him any favors” if he messed up again. He was in a daze during the ’06 Olympic lp and left out some elements, and that's disastrous, but his skating wasn't a total flop. (I wonder if Johnny knew or was affected by the media articles speculating that he was gay). Of course, he was on an important stage and generally skaters will lose some support if they falter. I agree that Johnny’s faltering in 2006 was another "tipping" factor in Evan’s direction.

    Thanks for pointing out that the “team player” comment appears in Johnny’s book, REO. I found a reference on page 17: “…my various obsessions [included] track, roller skating, gymnastics, anything that wasn’t a team sport (which I despised because I’m simply not a team player, and never will be).” I know it’s possible to read a lot into this statement. My take: Johnny is saying he has no interest in playing team sports such as baseball or soccer, because he is not cut out to play on a team. He is better at more individual sports. Sure there are different connotations, but why do some posters insist his admission of not being a “team player” is a reason why he was not asked to join SOI? The Johnny not being a “team player” and not being “family-friendly” excuses, are ridiculous IMO. Johnny toured with COI, and no issues like this ever arose. Also, Johnny’s book came out this year, not last year when the SOI furor was brewing. IMO, a skater is not actually on a team or probably even thinking about a team when they are performing on the ice (unless they are in a fluff team competition). Once their program begins, if a skater is thinking about a team, or fretting about the necessity to secure 2 or 3 spots for next year’s team, then they are likely going to have difficulty performing their best.

    Johnny revealed his flaws, and admitted his mistakes, and his failures, but he has refused to wallow in self-pity or back down from a challenge. Apparently, his admission of having made mistakes is not enough. A lot of people seem to feel it necessary to latch onto every fault or character trait he admits to having, and further pile on.


    Disclaimer: No, I’m not trying to insult anyone, or get people to change their opinions or agree with me. Everyone can maintain their own perceptions and interpretations.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post

    Oh, for sure, but Evan has actually gotten MUCH smarter about this. He said a LOT of crap about Johnny a few years back, to the point where now to be honest, I could barely enjoy watching either one of them skate (and I blame the commentators for fueling that fire too). I thought they were both idiots, and was hoping Jeremy Abbott would just skate balls out all the time so we could get Evan/Johnny to go away and STFU.

    But Evan has the benefit now of the Oly Gold, so basically as long as he keeps his mouth shut regarding Johnny (which he has done for the most part for a long time now) he always looks like he's taking the high road, and Johnny just looks petulant, regardless of who is actually correct.
    Thanks, Manleywoman, for expressing exactly how I feel about these two in terms of their characters. Skating wise I never liked Evan's skating and loved Johnny's.

  6. #66

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    Since Johnny has said that he's not a team player, why is he (and so many of his fans) upset when the team doesn't want him?
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    Since Johnny has said that he's not a team player, why is he (and so many of his fans) upset when the team doesn't want him?
    Because that's just unfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiir

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    Since Johnny has said that he's not a team player, why is he (and so many of his fans) upset when the team doesn't want him?
    Money. The chance to make a living at what he does best. Unless you want to wear a big fuzzy head, SOI is the only game around for skaters. And as far as that show being a team, it's not really. They can call themselves anything they like but one's performance does not affect anothers'. There was never any problem with COI so why should there be with SOI unless the ptb of that organization have a problem with some aspect of Johnny. It can't be his skating. They use people way less successful than him. It can't be that he has no crowd appeal. He's the most popular male figure skater - OGM or not. He could put butts in the seats which has become a problelm for SOI. So what's the deal? It makes one wonder.

  9. #69

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    Well, maybe Johnny should have thought about the money before he shot his mouth off.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  10. #70

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    Personally, I can't see Johnny on SOI just because he would have to participate in (frequently cheesy) group/team skating bits and also likely have to incorporate their input or pressure on what he can do with his own programs. That wouldn't go over well with him.

    Can you really imagine his "Poker Face" program in SOI??? (and by the way, before anyone jumps on me, I love that program) SOI is a great tour, but they are also as "white bread" as you can get in a skating tour. I couldn't imagine Rudy doing most of his programs on SOI, whereas the PTB at COI loved his Village People routine and the crowd reaction to it so much that they pushed him to keep it as long as possible. The "Tour de Hamilton" IMO has always been more about pretty skating, conformity, and "let's praise Scott Hamilton" (save the Christopher Dean years which had some truly amazing numbers) which is why I don't tend to go.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  11. #71

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    White bread? Like the year one of the guys practically gave an audience member a lap dance? Personally, I like it when it keeps things tame in that department but shows genuine creativity in the programs, like it's been for the past couple of years.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post

    Everyone can maintain their own perceptions and interpretations.
    Thank you muchly, but you do realize that no one needs any permission from you to do this, any more than you need permission from anyone else?

    This is a discussion board. People talk and argue about their various opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    He's the most popular male figure skater - OGM or not. He could put butts in the seats
    Just because something is repeated over and over does not make it so. When Johnny gets his show or tour or whatever he is working on up and running and he can actually demonstrate his ability to put butts in seats in substantial numbers, then this argument might have some validity.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  13. #73

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    [QUOTE=REO;3112267] ... It can't be his skating. They use people way less successful than him. ... [QUOTE]

    Sorry, but I think that Johnny is the least successful, when compared to the other men currently under contract (Michael W is ahead by one world bronze). The only skaters on SOI that are less successful than Johnny (that I recall) have been ladies, and (maybe) some US pairs, but no other men. This indicates that SOI needs balance among the disciplines, but provides no reason to think that TPTB on SOI have something against Johnny.

  14. #74

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    Canadians, apparently, we get the Sundance Channel Network, which aired the first season of Johnny's show. In Vancouver, it's channel 133. The season finale is on tonight.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    Can you really imagine his "Poker Face" program in SOI???.
    Absolutely! They love crappy kiddie music. Poker Face would fit right in. He could do the same old triple toe and doughnut spin and slide on the ice sticking his whatever in the air, the same as he does in every exhibition number. Poker Face would be perfect for SOI.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    Money. The chance to make a living at what he does best. Unless you want to wear a big fuzzy head, SOI is the only game around for skaters. And as far as that show being a team, it's not really. They can call themselves anything they like but one's performance does not affect anothers'. There was never any problem with COI so why should there be with SOI unless the ptb of that organization have a problem with some aspect of Johnny. It can't be his skating. They use people way less successful than him. It can't be that he has no crowd appeal. He's the most popular male figure skater - OGM or not. He could put butts in the seats which has become a problelm for SOI. So what's the deal? It makes one wonder.

    Unless you consider his comments about always riding the bus with the Russians when he traveled with COI and the comments he made about the atmosphere on the more American bus.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    \
    The "Tour de Hamilton" IMO has always been more about pretty skating, conformity, and "let's praise Scott Hamilton" (save the Christopher Dean years which had some truly amazing numbers) which is why I don't tend to go.
    Which is why I also hate SOI . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Personally, I like it when it keeps things tame in that department but shows genuine creativity in the programs, like it's been for the past couple of years.
    . . . but also like SOI.

    But for me, I'd rather watch competition that most exhibitions. Mainly because I'm a Radiohead/Pink Floyd/Jeff Buckley kind of gal, and the shows tend to be Celine Dion/Andrea Bocelli/Josh Groban types of numbers. So I don't tend to go myself unless the tickets are free or really cheap. That goes for SOI, COI, or smaller shows.

    I just find a lot of the shows to be cheesy. But every once in a while I'll se a number that I LOVE (like Tanith/Ben's number from last year which was 100% adorable and creative.)
    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    And as far as that show being a team, it's not really. They can call themselves anything they like but one's performance does not affect anothers'.
    Except maybe in the group numbers which are a feature of SOI shows.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    Absolutely! They love crappy kiddie music. Poker Face would fit right in. He could do the same old triple toe and doughnut spin and slide on the ice sticking his whatever in the air, the same as he does in every exhibition number. Poker Face would be perfect for SOI.
    Of course everyone has their own opinion about Poker Face, but I loved it, and I don't even like cheesy pop music. But note: Johnny hasn't done Poker Face in quite some time. He's been doing Heartbroken (gorgeous and classical) and Bad Romance, both of which may be close to retirement, since he's working on new exhibition numbers, as he tweeted today. The Lady Gaga stuff is an anomaly for him. Think of his other exhibitions: Imagine, All in Love is Fair, Ave Maria, Heartbroken (A Comme L'Amour), Hymn L'Amour, Feeling Good, etc.) He has pretty good taste in music, in my opinion. To me, his exhibitions are usually pretty sophisticated. As for using the same moves a lot, I'll give you the slide, although it's extremely popular and always gets a big reaction. But the other stuff? I think a lot of the skaters repeat the moves they're good at. Look at Stephane's spins. He always throws a whole bunch in there.

  20. #80
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    @Prancer: Thanks for your input. Far be it from me to think I'm in a position to give FSUers permission to do or not do anything. My tongue-in-cheek "disclaimer" is specifically directed to those who have recently stated in other threads that I'm "insulting other posters, and trying to get other posters to think the way I do," by expressing my own points of view.

    @attyfan: "(Michael W is ahead by one world bronze)." Thanks for pointing that out, attyfan. I enjoyed some of Michael's performances when he was competing in the eligible ranks, and having seen him recently in a fluff competition, I think he's continued to hone his skating skills. Yet, I still have to at the notion that counting "hardware" is the most important way of determining the success or lack of success of skaters. [e.g., Michelle Kwan has two Olympic medals, but no gold -- and so what? MK is and will likely remain for a long time one of the most decorated skaters in fs history. Beyond medals, what she accomplished was amazing on so many levels. Sure the "hardware" stats are tremendous, but what I will remember most about her is the courage, passion, exquisite grace, and determination she always displayed on and off the ice -- and most importantly the way her spirit soared, taking the entire audience with her ... The experience was spine-tingling and uplifting.]

    Back to the mundane task at hand. So what that Michael W is ahead of Johnny W by one World bronze. Some people are understandably stat crazy about baseball, but figure skating?! As I mentioned about Paul Wylie earlier, the important thing that matters is he put it all together and shined at the penultimate moment of his eligible career, which led to his having a long and satisfying professional career, and to his fans being able to experience so many memorable and fantastic moments. Great accomplishment re the silver Olympic medal itself, but the number of medals Paul was or was not able to garner over his career is not a measure of his success nor who he was as a skater.

    SOI vs Johnny

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