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  1. #321
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    Each side has tried to read the other's motivations and meanings. Each side has tried to tell the other what to do. However, only one side has gotten angry about the whole thing. Or maybe I'm just biased.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    Each side has tried to read the other's motivations and meanings. Each side has tried to tell the other what to do. However, only one side has gotten angry about the whole thing. Or maybe I'm just biased.
    I would agree that only one side has gotten mad. I just don't think we are talking about the same side.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  3. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I would agree that only one side has gotten mad. I just don't think we are talking about the same side.
    I think only one side has gone mad
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    But why? Or rather, to what end?

    You can't read minds in person, much less over the internet. One of the reasons many of these discussions go awry is that so many people try to identify motivations and underlying psychological reasons for why people post as they do--and I include calling people "ubers" in this.

    Taking what people say at face value and trying to determine whether there is or isn't merit to it is hard enough--but discussions tend to run more smoothly that way rather than degenerating into these back-and-forth arguments about who REALLY means what.
    You are right in what you say. It's just difficult when you feel what you've said has been misunderstood not to reply back.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    Please stop that fake Dr. Phil talk. "There must be something within you that you feel is not right and I can sense it in you even if you can't."

    BTW, it doesn't freak us out. We're just telling you you're full of it.

    That's exactly what you do.
    Well I can totally see that you're not taking this too seriously. Dang!

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? A reasonable, intelligent non homophobic person could never ever think Johnny can be an annoying twit, could they?
    No, they could not. Unless they're deliberately trying to sound unreasonable.
    Last edited by polett; 06-20-2011 at 10:21 PM.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    You are right in what you say. It's just difficult when you feel what you've said has been misunderstood not to reply back.
    I understand that, but that's not the same thing as trying to figure out the real reason why people don't like Johnny and whether or not they are homophobic.

    I don't think most of us can explain why we REALLY do or do not like people, much less why other people do. I do think that Johnny inspires such a response because he symbolizes something to people, but what that something is varies. And I don't think it pays to try to figure it out, either.

    I realized a while back that Johnny reminds me very much of someone I used to know, and that my reactions to him are really reactions to that other person. It's not something you would ever figure out about me; you don't know me well enough. It took me a long time to figure it out for myself.

    It's not just Johnny. The strong visceral reactions to Rachael Flatt, for example, indicate to me that she also symbolizes something to people. I don't know what it is, exactly, although sometimes I wonder if she is some sort of stand-in for all the "less worthy" people who have somehow gotten ahead at the expense of some posters, but I don't think that's true for all of them or even most of them, and I don't know which ones it is true for, if any.

    And in the end, no matter why they dislike Rachael or Johnny or whoever, the bottom line is that they dislike them, period.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I don't think most of us can explain why we REALLY do or do not like people, much less why other people do.

    It's not just Johnny. The strong visceral reactions to Rachael Flatt, for example.
    And in the end, no matter why they dislike Rachael or Johnny or whoever, the bottom line is that they dislike them, period.
    I love you, I dis you, I could be wrong, Prancer!

  9. #329
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    REO, I think I love you. Yep, I'm not you. I’m your uber!

    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    OMG you're right! It must be catching. I stand corrected but agalisgv is right. And no, Val, aftershocks and I not the same person. Actually I'm really posting double as overedge and REO so my two natures can war with each other. lol
    Please, please do not tell me you are overedge’s other half.

    RE the back-and-forth on “the gene pool” comment. It originated from mmscfdcsu’s #15 post, in GSD’s “Johnny will not compete …” thread, and my quoting mmscfdcsu in that thread is just an example of my throwing back a stinger – but it seemed to have stung elsewhere.

    REO quoted it… and then I did too, with a slight word change, only I neglected to put the phrase in quotes, silly me! Doubt I could have come up with that original zinger all on my own. Sorry to disappoint, overedge.

    Not that I’m making fun of anyone’s serious, well thought out, sincerely expressed comments, but this thread somehow reminds me of musical chairs, and of the childhood game of whispering in someone’s ear and seeing how by the time the words have been whispered one to the next down the line into 20 separate kids’ ears, the original words come out completely different in a crazy, kaleidoscope kinda way.

    @antmanb re your post #287 in this thread: “… I’ve given [Johnny] crap on this board for being closeted…” Oh well, I have seen this expressed before on Internet sites, not necessarily just on FSU either -- but, Johnny “closeted.” When? Do you mean b/c he didn’t call a press conference to confess being gay, after he won his first Nationals? Who among the many gay skaters in figure skating (besides Rudy Galindo) have ever confessed to being gay during their eligible career? What is it exactly that makes you describe Johnny as having been “closeted”? Not to start anymore arguments: just askin’. IMHO, Johnny has often taken the heat for being a “flamboyant” [ term for gay] outspoken skater, and as a result some of the more rigid attitudes regarding how gay skaters should present themselves on the ice, have become a bit more relaxed.

    If Johnny ever wandered into this thread, which I doubt, I can imagine him having a huge laugh and/ or shaking his head incredulously. Johnny to Tara: “Wow, what rhymes with polarizing.” :ROFL: Doubt Johnny has the time to waste time here though. He’s probably too busy thinking of the next “polarizing” thing he can do or say. He’s just so d**n ‘polarizing.’ Seriously, I doubt Johnny intentionally tries to be polarizing. He just tends to do and say what he wants. That’s how he lives his life, which is enough I guess to make him a polarizing figure. The term, btw, reminds me of another even more public figure often described as “polarizing,” Hillary Clinton. Hmmm those “polarizing” people can be so annoying, with the way they go about movin’ and shakin’ things up, and changing the world. In Johnny’s case, the very insular world of figure skating. Believe it or not, like him or not. Things is what they is. Excuse my grammatical incorrectness, and also my unfortunate usage in a previous post here of the term, “level the playing field.” Definitely a wrong choice of words, as truthfully, who cares about a “level playing field”? That’s so boring, and unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    ... I don't think most of us can explain why we REALLY do or do not like people, much less why other people do. I do think that Johnny inspires such a response because he symbolizes something to people, but what that something is varies. And I don't think it pays to try to figure it out, either.

    I realized a while back that Johnny reminds me very much of someone I used to know, and that my reactions to him are really reactions to that other person...
    Ahhhh, thanks Prancer. I believe you are on to something.
    And your thoughts remind me of what I have said here many times before: these “polarizing” discussions end up not being about Johnny after all, but instead, are reflective of who we are.
    As I expressed in the similar GSD thread: Thanks Johnny! We barely knew ye.

    Hope my comments are not too “repeated and lengthy a discourse” for ya Jenny, “on poor, persecuted Johnny.” That Johnny fella! When will he ever get a life…? Hmmmm, maybe a cue for many of us to get up from the computer screen, and take a good, long look in the mirror, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I think only one side has gone mad
    IMHO, the whole world has gone mad. Perhaps this thread is just a infinitesimal microcosm of that fact… Alright, alright, anyone I’ve managed to offend: I speak for myself and my own individual perceptions, misperceptions, likes, dislikes, and human frailties... Back to my mad den
    Last edited by aftershocks; 06-25-2011 at 11:50 AM.

  10. #330
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    Johnny will be in the cast of Fantasy on Ice on July 2&3 in Fukuoka, Japan. Cast includes Lambiel, Verner, Ando, Oda, and more.

  11. #331

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    Johnny will be in the cast of Fantasy on Ice on July 2&3 in Fukuoka, Japan. Cast includes Lambiel, Verner, Ando, Oda, and more.
    Here's the thread in GSD for the "Fantasy on Ice" shows: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=79133

    In this 6/23 St. Petersburg, Florida article, Weir mentions that "Be Good Johnny Weir" will be aired on Logo for a second season in November: http://www2.tbo.com/entertainment/ev...val-ar-239349/

  12. #332

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    http://www.figureskatersonline.com/j...-holiday-line/


    Johnny to be the face of MAC cosmetics holiday line.

  13. #333

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    @antmanb re your post #287 in this thread: “… I’ve given [Johnny] crap on this board for being closeted…” Oh well, I have seen this expressed before on Internet sites, not necessarily just on FSU either -- but, Johnny “closeted.” When? Do you mean b/c he didn’t call a press conference to confess being gay, after he won his first Nationals? Who among the many gay skaters in figure skating (besides Rudy Galindo) have ever confessed to being gay during their eligible career? What is it exactly that makes you describe Johnny as having been “closeted”? Not to start anymore arguments: just askin’. IMHO, Johnny has often taken the heat for being a “flamboyant” [ term for gay] outspoken skater, and as a result some of the more rigid attitudes regarding how gay skaters should present themselves on the ice, have become a bit more relaxed.
    Wow, considering you claim to not want any more arguments, you sure did well speculating about the ways in which I might have criticised him and went on to argue against a point i never made

    I specifically gave Johnny crap for being "closeted" when he very publically got GLAAD all riled up about his supposed issues with SOI. As a gay person it felt hypocrtical to get a gay rights organisation to fight his battles for him, when he would still not stand up and say he was gay. That was pretty much it. No big deal.

  14. #334
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    It took Johnny a long time to say "I'm gay," but he never tried to hide either. You could say GLAAD should only support people who identify as LGBT, or you could argue that it should fight homophobia in any form, even if it's against someone who isn't openly gay. I should mention that whether SOI was actually being homophobic is still up for debate, though I think it was GLAAD's perception of homophobia, and not Johnny's. I don't want to stir the pot on this argument, though, as I hope it's pretty much simmered down.

    In other news, Johnny has become more vocal about LGBT issues lately, and I think better late than never, although he never had any obligation to be an activist. Tonight he's appearing at the Trevor Project fundraiser.

    http://www.thetrevorproject.org/trevorlive

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I specifically gave Johnny crap for being "closeted" when he very publically got GLAAD all riled up about his supposed issues with SOI. As a gay person it felt hypocrtical to get a gay rights organisation to fight his battles for him, when he would still not stand up and say he was gay. That was pretty much it. No big deal.
    That is a point well taken. I can totally see where you're coming from. I always thought though, that he refused to actually say the words during his competitive career from a fear of being judged unfairly. As long as he never said those three little words there was always the wiggle room that he was just a very artistic soul with a flair for "out there" costuming. Lord knows he never really tried to hide his real self. And my theory could be a total crock too but everyone handles it differently. He's a very complex person. Mr Grand Marshall is certainly embracing the three little words these days.

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by REO View Post
    I always thought though, that he refused to actually say the words during his competitive career from a fear of being judged unfairly. As long as he never said those three little words there was always the wiggle room that he was just a very artistic soul with a flair for "out there" costuming. Lord knows he never really tried to hide his real self. And my theory could be a total crock too but everyone handles it differently. He's a very complex person.
    Not sure I agree. Johnny seems to me a bit of a tease - revealing some but not all, dropping tidbits here and there that make people speculate (I'm thinking of his references to drug use for example). His right of course, and while it may have been in response to the constant scrutiny, it may have also been an effort to generate constant scrutiny.

    Would this affect how he's judged? I don't think so. If it was well-known in the skating world the whole time, what difference does it make if he makes it official? It's not like it's going to damage the sport, because non-fans think most of the men in skating must be gay anyway.

    If anything, I think his days in the closet - with the door wide open apparently - only served to annoy people like the USFSA in the context of his ongoing quest to be different and refusal to play along with the rest of them. If I were the USFSA, I'd have zero problem with Johnny's sexuality - it would be everything else that he did or might have done making me worry about the image of the organization and sport.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Not sure I agree. Johnny seems to me a bit of a tease - revealing some but not all, dropping tidbits here and there that make people speculate (I'm thinking of his references to drug use for example). His right of course, and while it may have been in response to the constant scrutiny, it may have also been an effort to generate constant scrutiny.
    What were the drug references, besides the descriptions of skating programs as "vodka shot/cocaine" versus "brandy"? I could see myself making a metaphor like that, but it certainly would be a stretch to assume from this that I take drugs.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    What were the drug references, besides the descriptions of skating programs as "vodka shot/cocaine" versus "brandy"? I could see myself making a metaphor like that, but it certainly would be a stretch to assume from this that I take drugs.
    I was thinking of a specific article in the Vancouver Sun during the Olympics, which I just searched for and it's no longer on line. I don't want to attempt to recreate the quote, but it was something to the effect of "they don't like me [because among other things] I like to make drug references."

    Repeated drug references, particularly in the context of what using them is like, naturally leads the listener to think the speaker has some experience in using drugs. I'm not saying that Johnny ever did drugs - the point is that he threw around the language for effect, and tried to be cool or something by sounding like he knew what he was talking about. I can see where the USFSA would have a problem with that, more so than the likely possibility that he was gay, which was the point of my post.

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Repeated drug references, particularly in the context of what using them is like, naturally leads the listener to think the speaker has some experience in using drugs.
    I'm not sure about that. Plenty of people in the spotlight and out of it make drug referrences, and it's never taken seriously. I have a really hard time believing that because he compared another skater's program to snorting cocain, someone seriously believed that Weir might have experience using drugs. The time he said it (and the times he's referrenced saying it) have all clearly had a tone that implies he was joking, imo.

    That being said, I'm sure the USFSA and SOI don't like the jokes about drugs because it doesn't give the family friendly image they want to project.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockTheTassel View Post
    I'm not sure about that. Plenty of people in the spotlight and out of it make drug referrences, and it's never taken seriously. I have a really hard time believing that because he compared another skater's program to snorting cocain, someone seriously believed that Weir might have experience using drugs. The time he said it (and the times he's referrenced saying it) have all clearly had a tone that implies he was joking, imo.

    That being said, I'm sure the USFSA and SOI don't like the jokes about drugs because it doesn't give the family friendly image they want to project.
    I agree with you Tassel. USFSA sent him to media training because of his vodka shot line. I'm not sure they appreciate the gay image any more than they do the drug references. JMO but I think figure skating would maybe appeal to more people in the 2000s if they were a little less buttoned up. If Michael Vick can make a comeback in football, Johnny should be able to joke about the effects of programs as a snort of cocaine versus a brandy and cigarette.

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