Did Drobiazko and Vanagas ever beat Bourne and Kraatz?

[blue_idealist]

This was just something I was wondering about the other day... I thought D&V might have beat B&K once, but I couldn't remember exactly where, or if they even did. Does anyone know? I know they usually finished behind them...

[walei]

I'm pretty sure D/V beat B/K in GPF 2000 where B/K finished dead last and didn't make it into the Super Finals.

[gkelly]

1993, Drobiazko/Vanagas were 13th at Worlds and Bourne/Kraatz were 14th in their debut.

[lmarie086]

Drobiazko/Vanagas were 3rd at Worlds in 2000, and Bourne/Kraatz were 4th or 5th I believe.

[Andora]

Drobiazko/Vanagas were 3rd at Worlds in 2000, and Bourne/Kraatz were 4th or 5th I believe.

I believe B&K didn't compete in 2000. Shae was injured. Plus they had a dreadful FD.

[briancoogaert]

I'm pretty sure D/V beat B/K in GPF 2000 where B/K finished dead last and didn't make it into the Super Finals.

Absolutely : http://ww2.isu.org/figure/events/9900/gp79900.html

Drobiazko/Vanagas were 3rd at Worlds in 2000, and Bourne/Kraatz were 4th or 5th I believe.

As Andora said, B&K didn't compete at 2000 Worlds : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Wo..._Championships

[lmarie086]

Ah, forgive me. I wasn't sure if I had just missed them (since I also hated that FD ) or not.

[judgejudy27]

They beat them at both Skate America 2000 and Nations Cup 2000. They were 2nd and Bourne & Kraatz 3rd in both cases (I believe Fusar Poli & Margalio were the winners of both events). They generally were above B&K in the 99-2000 and 2000-2001 seasons until Worlds in Canada to end the 2001 season where B&K moved back in front and remained so for good.

[Whitneyskates]

I loved D/V. Their 5th place finish in 2002 was, imo, the true figure skating controversy of those games, although not a peep was uttered. I thought it was kind of funny that B/K were ready to call foul anytime they were beaten by what they perceived to be protocol judging, but had no problem with it when it benefited them. I can't even imagine the hell they would have raised if they had finished 5th behind two teams who fell.

[blue_idealist]

I loved D/V. Their 5th place finish in 2002 was, imo, the true figure skating controversy of those games, although not a peep was uttered. I thought it was kind of funny that B/K were ready to call foul anytime they beaten by what they perceived to be protocol judging, but had no problem with it when it benefited them. I can't even imagine the hell they would have raised if they had finished 5th behind two teams who fell.

To be fair, the 2002 placements didn't really benefit B&K, as they finished 4th and off the podium again. I'm sure 4th was no better than 5th in their eyes.

[numbers123]

I loved D/V. Their 5th place finish in 2002 was, imo, the true figure skating controversy of those games, although not a peep was uttered. I thought it was kind of funny that B/K were ready to call foul anytime they were beaten by what they perceived to be protocol judging, but had no problem with it when it benefited them. I can't even imagine the hell they would have raised if they had finished 5th behind two teams who fell.

I thought that there was a bit of an uproar? I remember being in Vancouver and booing happening because of their placement? Maybe I am thinking about another time?

[pani]

To be fair, the 2002 placements didn't really benefit B&K, as they finished 4th and off the podium again. I'm sure 4th was no better than 5th in their eyes.

Just IMHO, B-K deserve to won 1 bronze medal at OG. In my opinion with Riverdance in 1998.
In 2002 F-P-M have fall on step sequence, when B-K at the end pose. But in any case B-K didnt get medal.
Plus Margarita isnt such great skater, like Povilas. She had a lot off jumos, didnt have smooth skating.
I think D-V wuzzrobbed in 2002 WCh. (IMHO).
And i must to say, i love GPF results in 2001-2002 Both D-V and B-K had amazing results.

[judgejudy27]

Bourne & Kraatz were placed in the bronze medal spot in the free dance portion in Nagano. It was their compulsories and most of all awful original dance which kept them off the podium, and rightfully so. This despite that they got a huge gift in the OD and received mostly 4th and 5th place votes (and even a couple 3rds amazingly) when really it was more like a 9th place dance.

As for SLC, in SLC the final standings should have been:

Anissina & Peizerat gold easily, 1st in all portions, although I hate their FD and enjoyed many others more
Drobiazko & Vanagas silver- 3rd in CDs, 3rd in OD, 2nd in FD
Lobacheva & Averbuhk bronze- 8th in CDs, 2nd in OD, 3rd in FD
Bourne & Kraatz 4th- 6th in CDs, 4th in OD, 4th in FD
Denkova & Stayviski 5th- 4th in CDs, 7th in OD, 5th in FD
Fusar Poli & Margalio 6th- 2nd in CDs, 5th in OD, 7th in FD
Navka & Kostomarov 7th- 5th in CDs, 6th in OD, 6th in FD
Lang & Tschernaysaev- 7th in CDs, 8th in OD, 8th in FD

Lobacheva & Averbuhk 2nd in the CD, Fusar Poli & Margalio 3rd in the FD, and Drobiazko & Vanagas only 5th in the FD were all ROTFL moments.

[PeterG]

I thought it was kind of funny that B/K were ready to call foul anytime they were beaten by what they perceived to be protocol judging, but had no problem with it when it benefited them.

What, you thought Bourne and Kraatz should have said, "oh, wait everybody...we should probably be a place or two lower for this one"!

[blue_idealist]

Just IMHO, B-K deserve to won 1 bronze medal at OG. In my opinion with Riverdance in 1998.
In 2002 F-P-M have fall on step sequence, when B-K at the end pose. But in any case B-K didnt get medal.
Plus Margarita isnt such great skater, like Povilas. She had a lot off jumos, didnt have smooth skating.
I think D-V wuzzrobbed in 2002 WCh. (IMHO).
And i must to say, i love GPF results in 2001-2002 Both D-V and B-K had amazing results.

I actually think the places in Nagano were right. I think B&K should have got the bronze in SLC instead of Fusar-Poli and Margaglio since their fall was on a non-element and Margaglio had a huuuuge fall in the middle of the program. I actually barely remember D/V's performances from SLC so I can't really say where they should have ended up. I just remember B&K's Michael Jackson FD was my favourite/the best they've ever done.

[blue_idealist]

Bourne & Kraatz were placed in the bronze medal spot in the free dance portion in Nagano. It was their compulsories and most of all awful original dance which kept them off the podium, and rightfully so. This despite that they got a huge gift in the OD and received mostly 4th and 5th place votes (and even a couple 3rds amazingly) when really it was more like a 9th place dance.

I love B&K but I do agree, that OD was pretty baaaad for their standards.

[pani]

That's why I said IMHO. I think with new system such a dance and performance, like BK showed in Riverdance brought them medal at OG.
I love MJ at GPF. It was the best moment of the season for me. In CD in 2002 in my opinion BK was amazing in quickstep. And there OD was most original, when all others showed more standard programs. But the worst thing was -judges didn't give any chance for them to fight for any kind of medal from there first step on the ice.
But BK open the door for.all.North American ice dance teams, who competed.after them.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I totally disagree with you. I don't get why you're using the "new" system when we really don't know how it would have been scored considering that none of the team's FDs fit in with the requirements of IJS.

However, if you want to look at difficulty, you can look at the difficult of the hand-holds, pattern on the ice, speed, lifts, and variety of footwork and content. Bourne and Kraatz had a lot of footwork that fit the music and the Irish step-dance theme. Anissina and Peizerat's Romeo and Juliet had a variety of face-to-face hand-holds, different sorts of footwork and changes in direction, and a great variety of lifts.

Looking at that OD is where I have a problem with any Bourne/Kraatz deserved the bronze debate. Bourne/Kraatz should have been buried even further than they were in the CD for that OD in 1998. While Anissina/Peizerat had arguably the most difficult and convincing jive OD that season, Bourne and Kraatz's Grease was seriously simple compared to what their contemporaries were doing and not really doing a great job expressing the jive theme. Their Beatles OD earlier was even worse though because The Beatles' "I Saw Her Standing There" I don't believe is a "jive." If you want to talk about difficulty, it was well-behind the rest of the top seven.

I also disagree about their 2002 OD. I thought their Cell Block Tango was slow, labored, and absolutely boring because it was so unconvincing. Compared to what Anissina/Peizerat, Lobacheva/Averbukh and even Drobiazko/Vanagas and Navka/Kostomorov produced, Bourne and Kraatz's dance just didn't compare. I actually liked their Michael Jackson FD, but it wasn't as difficult as it looked. Also, someone said earlier that they fell on a non-element, but didn't they both go down on the final lift while only Margaglio fell during in the near beginning of the step-sequence before finishing it up? Both Bourne/Kraatz and Fusar-Poli/Margaglio unfairly scored higher than Drobiazko/Vanagas anyway.

What, you thought Bourne and Kraatz should have said, "oh, wait everybody...we should probably be a place or two lower for this one"!

I think someone is just pointing out some perceived hypocrisy. My personal opinion on the matter is that I hated how NBC made it sound like all they wanted was fair judging when what they really wanted was judging where they would win titles like every other team competing. NBC made it seem like they had more honor than the other top teams and federations or something. What it seemed like to me was more frustration about the lack of politick success.

[blue_idealist]

That's why I said IMHO. I think with new system such a dance and performance, like BK showed in Riverdance brought them medal at OG.
I love MJ at GPF. It was the best moment of the season for me. In CD in 2002 in my opinion BK was amazing in quickstep. And there OD was most original, when all others showed more standard programs. But the worst thing was -judges didn't give any chance for them to fight for any kind of medal from there first step on the ice.
But BK open the door for.all.North American ice dance teams, who competed.after them.

Oh yeah, B&K's OD in 2002 was great as well. I re-watch it all the time.

[Proustable]

I think I would've had Denkova/Staviski ahead of B/K, but I think judgejudy's ranking is solid. But I never liked Lobacheva/Averbukh.